Research suggestion: Nightvision goggles

[Goetikmagus]

I think that's a really good point.

[GizmoGomez]

It's one that I got from Chris himself (somewhere, I can't remember the actual post ).

[RawCode]

everything simple, alliens shoud have same sight as player, including nigh time, this will eliminate need of NVG, since allien weapons more deadly at close range, thay still have boost at night

[ThunderGr]

everything simple, alliens shoud have same sight as player, including nigh time, this will eliminate need of NVG, since allien weapons more deadly at close range, thay still have boost at night

IMHO, aliens should have better night sight. They are genetically more advanced, technologically more advanced and the player is supposed to have to face the aliens against all these odds. This is what the whole game is all about. It is asymmetric, unlike most of the rest strategy games out there, and this is what makes it so much interesting. "Balance" in this game is not about being equal in strength, is about having a chance to win against these odds.

[TrashMan]

However, once you put on the night vision goggles, and the sight range penalty is compensated for, the night missions basically become day missions, with a few slight differences. This defeats the purpose of night missions; a much darker, intense, tension-filled experience. Perhaps if the night vision goggles were researched from some kind of alien tech, and didn't completely compensate for the sight range penalty, then it wouldn't ruin the difference between night and day missions by blurring the line between them too much.

Only for soldiers with goggles. And so what?

That's the whole point of technological progress. To even the batttlefield. You miss hte extra challenge of night missions? Well, by that logic dont' research superior guns. They also cut down on the challenge.

[thothkins]

If I was going on a night mission everyone would have night goggles. You could make them expensive, but that will just lead to complaints about that not being realistic when we're manufacturing plasma rifles etc.

For me, the balance between the better alien night vision and humans is already in there. It's flares. With decent TU cost to use, these should be used regularly, without the need to add anything else to the game. Not perfect, you have to actually do something to get them to work and the aliens are better. Just the way it should be for me.

[Name]

I think an upgrade to flares would be cool.

Blablabla. By adding low grade elenium to the flares we have increased light output by a lot.

[thothkins]

The downside is that everyone dies of Alenium poisoning just before the final mission. Earth is lost

[GizmoGomez]

Actually, that's a brilliant idea. Make improved flares that have a larger light output and last significantly longer. This would make it a ton easier without making the night and day missions too "the same."

To clarify, I wasn't talking about "missing the challenge" of night missions. I was saying that I'm against homogenizing night and day missions into the same thing by adding an item that removes the biggest difference between them - the actual darkness. It makes them seem kind of bland, when they were so varied. It effectively cuts half of the experience out of the game, if you take my meaning.

[Name]

The downside is that everyone dies of Alenium poisoning just before the final mission. Earth is lost

This provides a thought! Do i want all of my soldiers to die before the endgame?! Or do I want to live thorough the middle game 0.o

Or do you want to be mean and bring in pvts solely for the purpose of the improved cancer giving flares :3

[thothkins]

Sgt thothkins: Good news rookie! we've changed your uniform.

Pvt Meatshield: Great! no more red shirts.

Sgt thothkins: No, it's still red. But now it glows in the dark too!

Pvt Meatshield: >sob<

Sgt thothkins: Don't cry. Have some flares to cheer you up.

[Mytheos]

I can get behind better flares being researched, but they should be only slightly better.

Night needs to be scary, dangerous and the thing every rookie player runs into thinking "hmm I'm getting kinda good at this game, lets see what a night mission is about....followed by cries of "OMFG they are EVERYWHERE" "We're surrounded, where do we run??! AHHH...death".

And ultimately when you get your tactics down its like everything else and very doable. But XCOM vets see them coming, and think ahh crap...time to get my game face on...

But really they are change of pace and high risk missions for those good enough to reap their rewards.

If everything is going great (I still take them) but might consider not...but if things havent been going well and I need the cash/Alienium, a little extra risk is something that has to be done for you to compensate for some bad luck...of course if you arent prepared it could end you.

But I still havent lost a single soldier in a night mission, even a night terror mission so maybe I have a biased perspective.

But I did spend a lot of time on night missions in XCOM learning the tactics required to beat them with no/minimal loss and the overall tactics are similar, and once you apply previous experience to this game's differences it's a quick thing to get up to speed.

Otherwise save/load until you can beat them reasonably...and maybe bring 3 guys with rockets along and burn the map down if you have to...

Edited June 29, 2013 by Mytheos

[thothkins]

By improved flares, I just meant that the duration could do with a tweak.

Turn 1 - throw (possibly with tiered TUs as discussed in grenade thread). Bright flare that aliens can react to on their turn.

Turn 2- Flare remains bright, allowing Xenonauts a full turn to take advantage of the light.

Turn 3 - begins to fade by X%

Turn 4 - Out

Something like that. You could even have it fading on turn 2 if it was felt that it wasn't balanced.

But I still havent lost a single soldier in a night mission, even a night terror mission so maybe I have a biased perspective.

Landing and then pressing the abort on turn 1 doesn't count

[Solarius Scorch]

I wonder what would happen if aliens started throwing the flares back.

Oh wait... Active flares aren't objects in this game... Damn.

[thothkins]

they may think that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and end up throwing grenades instead to light things up a bit

[Mytheos]

By improved flares, I just meant that the duration could do with a tweak.

Turn 1 - throw (possibly with tiered TUs as discussed in grenade thread). Bright flare that aliens can react to on their turn.

Turn 2- Flare remains bright, allowing Xenonauts a full turn to take advantage of the light.

Turn 3 - begins to fade by X%

Turn 4 - Out

Something like that. You could even have it fading on turn 2 if it was felt that it wasn't balanced.

Landing and then pressing the abort on turn 1 doesn't count

Not sure why they couldnt even be extended beyond that, but I would be fine with that, I mean you might have stronger soldiers than me so your throwing distance could be far greater than mine...

There is an abort button?

[Name]

I prefer to think of the abort button as the Only lesser commanders know this button exist.

[thothkins]

Not sure why they couldn't even be extended beyond that, but I would be fine with that.

Whatever works out as balanced as opposed to me plucking it out of thin air

I mean you might have stronger soldiers than me so your throwing distance could be far greater than mine...

Well, I do make sure they're all slightly overloaded at the start of each mission to >ahem< help their development for the good of the planet's defence.

There is an abort button?

Hmmm...Mytheos could be pretending not to know about the abort button. Of course, he could genuinely not know about the abort button, and is now wondering why I know about the abort button. Tricky.

Actually, I think it's on the right mouse menu when you're in a mission, somewhere under resume game option etc. I only mentioned "button" as I'm so unfamiliar with the whole idea of mission abort

[Mytheos]

I seriously didnt know there was an Abort Option/Button.

I guess my general thought was really, why even have flares burn out in the 1st place? They never did in XCOM, and I didnt get a sense of them being OP...logically flares last for hours in real life.

I guess I just dont see why them not burning out would be unbalanced, even if they are lit, if a soldier doesnt look towards them they dont get an update for that turn (Could be an Alien standing on one, but you wouldnt know at the beginning of a turn unless you looked at it again). Not burning out would just make going back through an area easier, which I normally just go through each area once as I clear the map anyways...

[thothkins]

I think the idea of the flare burning out is to prevent players spamming the map with them. In stages, the Geoscape becomes twilight for the duration of the mission, negating the alien advantage. Coupled with low APs to use, and players could be lighting up map sections, and still having time to shoot etc.

A secondary effect, is that it really adds to the suspense of the missions. I fear night time terror missions at the moment. That's in Beta In the actual game, I'll undoubtedly have to go.

If the AI has aliens returning to the UFO to defend it, or generally more mobile, then areas behind you aren't as secure. You post a couple of soldiers to watch your back. But the flares start to sputter and go out...

[Max_Caine]

Flare burnout time and radius are totes adjustable. From too short to how many?, and squib to bonfire. Unfortunately, burnout is only adjustable as a global value. However, radius seems to be adjustable on a per-weapon basis. Hmm... I wonder...

  <Weapon name="weapon.grenade.electroflare" bulletType="flare" emptySound="Empty Click 1">   <props range="18" hands="1" recoil="0" weight="0" isHeavy="0" clipSize="1" reloadAPCost="0" hpLimit="80"/>   <SingleShot sound="Weapon Grenade Throw" delay="0.85">     <Set1 ap="15" accuracy="40" />   </SingleShot>   <BurstFire/>   <GUIImage name="gui/weapons/Flare.png"/>   <GroundImage name="grounditemimages/grenade2.png"/>   <Ammos>     <Ammo name="ammo.none" type="energy" damage="10" mitigation="0">       <Projectile spectre="projectiles/grenade" speed="600" />       <Impact spectre="particles/laserexplode/laserexplode" radius="8.0" sound="Weapon Stun Grenade" fire="0" />     </Ammo>   </Ammos> </Weapon>

There you go, the flare from X-Com. Lighter and easier to throw (increased range, increased accuracy), self-igniting (reduced AP cost) with a wider range of light cast (improved radius). Probably need a bit of work to make it work properly. Would that be the sort of thing people are after?

[thothkins]

that was totes helpful Max. Thanks

[Mytheos]

I think the idea of the flare burning out is to prevent players spamming the map with them. In stages, the Geoscape becomes twilight for the duration of the mission, negating the alien advantage. Coupled with low APs to use, and players could be lighting up map sections, and still having time to shoot etc.

A secondary effect, is that it really adds to the suspense of the missions. I fear night time terror missions at the moment. That's in Beta In the actual game, I'll undoubtedly have to go.

If the AI has aliens returning to the UFO to defend it, or generally more mobile, then areas behind you aren't as secure. You post a couple of soldiers to watch your back. But the flares start to sputter and go out...

I feel that.

But the obvious answer to combat spamming is to not make them infinite?

I had the feeling that wasnt meant to be that way? (Doesnt make sense if so)

I just thought it was something the devs had set for play testing purposes.

Also I get always having them on the ship and bringing them out for night missions...although I would prefer to have to bring them along, and just drop them if you dont end up needing them, or plan ahead and bring them.

(The whole why cant I have an armor on the dropship is a whole can of worms that should be avoided and blanketed with a because its a game, and otherwise would take out the element of preperation...or maybe just no one wants to be in a plane that may get shot at loaded with a half ton of explosives)

Edited July 1, 2013 by Mytheos

[PerfectDeath]

The only way I'd want Night Vision working is if it only extended LOS within a VERY narrow field (like no more than 60 degrees) a possible negative being NVG soldiers can also be suppressed much easier due to bright alien projectiles.

Aside from that, I am for improved flares weather that is for extra effect range or extra duration. Maybe have the improved flares as a regular grenade that acts like a flash bang on impact making them useful even on day missions.

[thothkins]

I feel that.

But the obvious answer to combat spamming is to not make them infinite?

I had the feeling that wasnt meant to be that way? (Doesnt make sense if so)

I just thought it was something the devs had set for play testing purposes.

You used to get two or three flares, but that changed to make things a bit more forgiving.