Thoughts & Lessons from X-COM: Enemy Unknown (by Firaxis)

[Da-Fort]

I really tried playing on Classic Iron Man but I gave up when enemy squads randomly spawned between my men during a terror mission. Twice. And the first one was a Sectopod. I did manage to clear the mission. Half my squad died and the other half where in medbay. No way I could survive the next mission that was handed to me a couple of days later.

[Chollirem]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/200510/discussions/0/864948300020375439/

I dont care what the dev said?

well

why not hear what us players said? : )

trashman, this link is for you enjoy : D

[djlogue]

I only picked it up the other day, it has it's god bit for sure but I too am let down by the linear story thing going on. Also the buy/sell not being very xcom either. Everything said in the OP is exactly how I feel TBH. Some parts of the game are really nice, but other bit really let me down. Thank gawd XenoMonkeys is here to save me.

Oh what did everyone think of the German scientist and the old engineer dude. Funny stuff.

AND I did notice when you produce a lazer rifle, the cut scene in the firing range has a sectoid form the original as the target, same goes for the plasma but it is a muton as the target.

[SJF14]

I think this is a very fair and balanced review.

I have thoroughly enjoyed my time with Xcom because it is genuinely difficult. Playing classic ironman with the new second wave options turned on has proved a real challenge.

Good, point about Xcom raising awareness for Xenonauts too - it's the sole reason I found my way here and bought the game.

[SunnyDrake]

Checked this game.. my thoughts:

Firaxis (imho) have very good development tools to produce this game like MotionCapture for animations, good model/texture set etc... this leveled down overhead of tech aspect of development. Made almost good camera autoposition scripts and some set of tacticaly good maps... but they shameslyy put not much freed time in development of game strategy and concepts.. maps are few, strategic options also counts down(as being noted auto fire is only viable good tactics).

My sole opnion last good development evolment of series was Xcom3 after that shameless strip down and sale on fame Still enjoyed game but its from play&forget

[Tacobandit]

Checked this game.. my thoughts:

Firaxis (imho) have very good development tools to produce this game like MotionCapture for animations, good model/texture set etc... this leveled down overhead of tech aspect of development. Made almost good camera autoposition scripts and some set of tacticaly good maps... but they shameslyy put not much freed time in development of game strategy and concepts.. maps are few, strategic options also counts down(as being noted auto fire is only viable good tactics).

My sole opnion last good development evolment of series was Xcom3 after that shameless strip down and sale on fame Still enjoyed game but its from play&forget

NG has more tactics than the OG. Don't make up BS. The rest is your opinion, but saying the OG has more tactics is a straight up lie.

[a333]

NG has more tactics than the OG. Don't make up BS. The rest is your opinion, but saying the OG has more tactics is a straight up lie.

Throwing this kind of statement, i assume you have a reliable algorithm of counting and comparing number of tactics in games?

If you speaking about a battle situations (all ufos, terror, abduction, missions, etc), new one has got a little more, but old had a map randomisations, so cake goes to no one.

Regarding actions available for a player, there are a lot of skills in the EU2012, also supression mechanics and sniping. But it too can be countered, not only by sheer number of units available to you, but with a big inventory, free aim and more devices such as motion detector and proximity mines. And snipers aren't needed on the real tactic missions, instead there are sharpshooters, which every accurate soldier in original can be.

So, where is a number of tactics and which formula should i use?

Edited January 24, 2013 by a333

[Tacobandit]

Throwing this kind of statement, i assume you have a reliable algorithm of counting and comparing number of tactics in games?

If you speaking about a battle situations (all ufos, terror, abduction, missions, etc), new one has got a little more, but old had a map randomisations, so cake goes to no one.

Regarding actions available for a player, there are a lot of skills in the EU2012, also supression mechanics and sniping. But it too can be countered, not only by sheer number of units available to you, but with a big inventory, free aim and more devices such as motion detector and proximity mines. And snipers aren't needed on the real tactic missions, instead there are sharpshooters, which every accurate soldier in original can be.

So, where is a number of tactics and which formula should i use?

When I decide tactics, I look at the way the game lets you "do" things. For example, camping the UFO in the OG could be considered a tactic because after turn 20 the aliens know where all of your soldiers are, and will (hopefully) come out of the UFO and get shot by your reaction fire.

Some key differences between the OG and EU are that the aliens work together now, and rely on LOS to know where your troops are. This means that knowing how the aliens work allows you to set up traps/tactics. An example of a tactic in EU is "locking down" a target, where you use overwatch to keep an alien pinned in place (they don't want to give you the free shot). This allows you to have another turn where you can move closer for a better shot/stun.

The biggest key difference between the OG (TFTD not included) and EU is that damage is standardized. In the OG, if a shot hit you (most likely from a heavy plasma) then it was a gamble whether you survived that one shot or not. You could be wearing clothes, or a flying suit; either way you could be dead from just about any heavy plasma shot. And don't say "well that's heavy plasma, not plasma pistols/rifles" because they ONLY use heavy plasmas after like month 4. It doesn't allow you any "guarantees". You can't ever know whenever your best soldier is unlucky and gets hit by that ONE sectoid behind a fence that you missed. It makes it very hard to ever get any soldier decent stats unless you camp them by the skyranger and expose them to enemy fire. Whereas in EU you have some leeway in damage. Nothing is a one hit kill depending on your health, and you can now plan things without worrying whether that sectoid will do 20+ damage with his plasma pistol.

But I guess you want actual specific tactics, so here you go.

OG

"Napalming the Jungle" (Liberal Blaster launcher fire across the entire map; leave no tile unscorched)

Reaction fire drainer (have an expendable do "situps" in front of a camping alien to drain his reaction fire so a better soldier can shoot him without getting shot)

Sniper/scout

Hot potato

Burn the UFO (Incendiaries inside the UFO to "cook" the aliens (you could also shoot them on the north/west outer walls and it would still hit the aliens))*

Black Magic (toss a smoke on an alien and then have a soldier shoot incendiaries at a wall to kill the alien)*

Stun the breacher (have a soldier open the UFO door and then stun bomb him)

Rocket to the ceiling (HE damage will propogate through the floor and damage aliens above)*

Permanent MC (MC a zombie, kill it, and enjoy your new pet chryssalid)*

Stalling missions (send some interceptors to a night mission until it's daytime, then send your skyranger)*

Noclip (There are specific ways to fall through the skyranger without going down the ramp, allowing you to get a "drop" on the aliens (no pun intended))*

MC train (have all your psionic troops just mind control every alien in the mission)

*Note that most of these are bugs/exploits

EU

Cover grenade (nade the enemy's cover to get better shots on him)

Overwatch lock down

Surpression

Bait (draw the aliens out into a reaction fire swarm (Iffy in the OG, because it was dependent on reaction scores))

Shredder rockets (allows you to do more damage to an alien + destroys cover)

Flush (force an alien to move; could be useful if he's in a good position or behind good cover)

Battlescanner (combine with the blaster launcher/nades to soften up/kill targets)

Squadsight (allows for a more refined sniper/scout combo instead of 1 scout + 13 shooters)

Sacrificial Lamb (have a less important soldier absorb shots from the aliens to protect your higher ranks; useful if you have a colonel in low cover and they have a heavy muton)

Flanking (there was no flank system in the OG; your aim was the same regardless of position, and I know they have different aim systems)

Ghosting (allows you to spy on the aliens and spot them for snipers without risking reaction fire + 100% crits)

Reeling in (shoot a beserker to draw him in closer to your squad so you get better chances to hit)

Camp by the civvies (aliens will almost ALWAYS shoot the civilians instead of your soldiers; a life saver)

Stimpaks ( STORM THE FRONT! )

Arc Thrower (Risk stunning the alien for research and his weps, or kill/weaken him?)

Disabling shot (For when you absolutely, positively must not have that alien fire that turn)

Mind merge ( Basically heals a sectoid 1 hp and makes their shots more dangerous)

And that's not even the alien tactics, here we go.

Nade (aliens almost never used grenades in the OG (TFTD not included) and here they use them if they have a really bad shot or your men are clumped up)

Surpression/floater teleport (They'll surpress one of your guys and then TP behind him in a flank position)

Blood call + nade + shooter (One muton will blood call, the other will nade your cover, and the final one(s) will shoot with their enhanced acc)

Surpress + flank ( a simple one )

Retreat (sounds useless, but they'll come back later when you're in a bad spot most of the time)

High ground ( The aliens actually know that high ground is good, and will seek it out notably with thin men and floaters. Oh and they can go down the stairs too, unlike in the OG)

Mind merge ( Basically heals a sectoid 1 hp and makes their shots more dangerous)

Yeah there were some things you could do in the OG that you couldn't in EU, but mostly exploits/ throwing things. There weren't that many tactics for outsmarting the aliens, mainly just shooting at them until they died or blowing them up.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Tacobandit

[zxasqwedcrfv]

there's so many people complaining that the difficulty called IMPOSSIBLE is too difficult, the developers even said they just kind of added it in and they weren't quite sure it was a good idea.

[HWP]

Mind merge ( Basically heals a sectoid 1 hp and makes their shots more dangerous)

Basically lets you kill two sectoids with one shot. All it does.

Some key differences between the OG and EU are that the aliens work together now, and rely on LOS to know where your troops are.

Actually the aliens don't even exist until you approach a potential spawn point.

Then they are spawned and know where your guys are. It's not LOS, it's spawns.

Nade (aliens almost never used grenades in the OG (TFTD not included) and here they use them if they have a really bad shot or your men are clumped up)

Retreat (sounds useless, but they'll come back later when you're in a bad spot most of the time)

What difficulty setting were you playing at?

[djlogue]

On impossible mode sectoids are fucking hardcore on the first missions when you troops are n00bs. I even had random stats and other 2nd wave enhancers. Does make the game more...............fun

[gfulton]

I still haven't been able to afford the full game yet

Very nice article though, I am even more excited about the direction Xenonauts is taking.

[djlogue]

I still haven't been able to afford the full game yet

Very nice article though, I am even more excited about the direction Xenonauts is taking.

Yes the new xcom is very expensive, I paid nearly fifty bottle caps for the basted. I also had trouble finding it anywhere in town. I eventually found it when I was doing my TESCO shopping and saw it for £47.95 (Oh boy do I feel robbed) When I was paying at the check out the woman seving me even said "these games can be so expensive" I was like "I KNOW" I really don't understand why the retail price is so high?? Gonna do some googling.

[Tacobandit]

Basically lets you kill two sectoids with one shot. All it does.

Actually the aliens don't even exist until you approach a potential spawn point.

Then they are spawned and know where your guys are. It's not LOS, it's spawns.

What difficulty setting were you playing at?

Yes but you'd have to go out of your way to get close enough to that sectoid (he usually hides in the back) who is most likely in full cover. Meanwhile that mind merged sectoid now has a higher chance to insta-kill your men. Oh and he'll probably take 2 shots to down now.

No, they actually do exist. You can spot them if you're lucky without triggering them. Or the battle scanner.

Veteran. I have the occasional floater throw a grenade at me, but most of the time they just shoot. Nothing like TFTD though, those guys are psychotic.

[HWP]

Yes but you'd have to go out of your way to get close enough to that sectoid (he usually hides in the back) who is most likely in full cover.

That was not my experience. My experience was that they were usually about equal targets.

Meanwhile that mind merged sectoid now has a higher chance to insta-kill your men. Oh and he'll probably take 2 shots to down now.

There are very few weapons in the game that can't one-shot a sectoid even with mind-merge.

And also waste of a turn (for them).

Veteran.

I meant the 2012 game.

[nomorebeef]

there's so many people complaining that the difficulty called IMPOSSIBLE is too difficult, the developers even said they just kind of added it in and they weren't quite sure it was a good idea.

Makes you wonder if people understand the definition of impossible?

[djlogue]

It is do able if you leave the 2nd wave settings alone.. As I said the hard bit is the first few missions against the sectoids. Once you get a few dudes feeling better about themselves you might survive a bit.

[Tacobandit]

That was not my experience. My experience was that they were usually about equal targets.

There are very few weapons in the game that can't one-shot a sectoid even with mind-merge.

And also waste of a turn (for them).

I meant the 2012 game.

>implying that you will have those weapons whilst fighting sectoids.

I usually play Classic, but I've started a few Impossible Ironmans with failure so far. My point about the merged sectoid being farther back was that you'd have to move up to get him, which could potentially leave your flanks open if you miss. Then the merged sectoid will probably crit you in the side.

[Gorlom]

>implying that you will have those weapons whilst fighting sectoids.

Acctually I think he was rather implying the opposite. That you will not have them.

I believe he is suggesting that firing on the mindmelded grey to be a poor tactic.

Are you discussing lessons learned from XCOM2012 or your opinion about the game? Any chance you could keep the "XCOM2012 VS X-com94: which one is better?" argument in one thread at a time? preferebly in one and the same thread all the time....

TBH reading people getting butthurt about the wayy someone else express their opinion about the new game is getting a bit old. (possibly because I have not played it beyond the demo and have very little interest in it.) If it was Xenonauts you could atleast be discussing how the mechanics should be but now... it's just a poo flininging competition?

[HWP]

I usually play Classic, but I've started a few Impossible Ironmans with failure so far. My point about the merged sectoid being farther back was that you'd have to move up to get him, which could potentially leave your flanks open if you miss. Then the merged sectoid will probably crit you in the side.

Depends on the tactic you use I suppose. I always have one team try and flank the enemy in advance, so I usually had a shot on the back one by the time it spawns and reveals itself with the merge. Wastes its free turn it could use to shoot my guys - what a tactician.

First mission being an exception (actually on Impossible it can be the hardest mission in the whole game).

Only two weapons don't one-shot a sectoid on Impossible: pistol and rifle (on all other difficulties it's just the pistol). Sectoids usually do their thing when one of them is hit, so the recipient just goes back to 4 hp. As such it only affects the survivability of a healthy sectoid, which merge much less often.

And if you are stuck with rifles (running rookies), then it matters even less. Rifle wounded sectoids will be at 1hp, which goes up to 2hp after merge and 3hp after another turn; both are one-shots. Healthy sectoids will go from 4 hp to 5 hp - two shots either way.

[Tacobandit]

Depends on the tactic you use I suppose. I always have one team try and flank the enemy in advance, so I usually had a shot on the back one by the time it spawns and reveals itself with the merge. Wastes its free turn it could use to shoot my guys - what a tactician.

First mission being an exception (actually on Impossible it can be the hardest mission in the whole game).

Only two weapons don't one-shot a sectoid on Impossible: pistol and rifle (on all other difficulties it's just the pistol). Sectoids usually do their thing when one of them is hit, so the recipient just goes back to 4 hp. As such it only affects the survivability of a healthy sectoid, which merge much less often.

And if you are stuck with rifles (running rookies), then it matters even less. Rifle wounded sectoids will be at 1hp, which goes up to 2hp after merge and 3hp after another turn; both are one-shots. Healthy sectoids will go from 4 hp to 5 hp - two shots either way.

Yes but that's the thing. They take more than one shot while merged. Assuming that they are behind cover, you will be hard pressed to kill that alien in one turn, even with a flank. And while you were busy hosing down that one sectoid, others will probably come to investigate the noise soon (yes the inactive aliens actually move). And you should know that mindmerge doesn't end the initiator's turn; I've seen them do it and then overwatch/move/shoot my guys.

The problem with what you've described is that you are now trying to move around and flank the aliens, which you should NEVER do early on, as you will probably just activate more aliens. A far better strategy is nade spam. Also I believe that the sectoids get a crit bonus on impossible, and that stacks with the +25% the sectoids get with mind merge. So that's like a 45% chance to crit? God help you if they flank you.

And you make the assumption that your rookies will reliably hit an alien that is behind cover. Good luck with that. The way I beat sectoids is I usually nade the first group I find to secure that area and be able to move freely without fear of alien activation. Then I form 2 squads; the bait and the line. The bait draws in the aliens between the two teams while they're hunkered down, the line stays behind full cover until the sectoids close in on the bait. Then I (hopefully) flank them and pray to the RNG gods that my 65% chance to hit actually hits.

Otherwise, heavies make excellent sectoid flambé.

[HWP]

Yes but that's the thing. They take more than one shot while merged.

One more hit point, not one shot. Most of the time it's one shot either way. In the very early game it's two shots either way.

And even that only affects the recipient.

Assuming that they are behind cover, you will be hard pressed to kill that alien in one turn, even with a flank.

He doesn't even have any extra hp points, not that it would make a difference. And flanking hits with SW are 100% critical chance.

And while you were busy hosing down that one sectoid, others will probably come to investigate the noise soon (yes the inactive aliens actually move). And you should know that mindmerge doesn't end the initiator's turn; I've seen them do it and then overwatch/move/shoot my guys.

The "AI" for inactive aliens has been discussed on N when cracking the files and recording experience. There isn't any implemented. They are spawned at preset locations as you progress. Spawn points are predetermined by RNG. On lower difficulties some are one or more are left unused.

Non-activated enemies are not capable of moving at all or investigating anything. "Movement" you hear on alien turn with the screen moving there is preset and exists for that purpose only, not actually moving aliens. Created but non-activated spawns may be teleported around clockwise or CCW, strictly between spawn points.

You've probably seen them act after doing the merge thanks to the free turn - MM is processed as an ability, like all others.

The problem with what you've described is that you are now trying to move around and flank the aliens, which you should NEVER do early on, as you will probably just activate more aliens.

Not "now". I approach with two teams (obviously except the first mission). So far, whenever I've seen a merge, the rear sectoid doing the merge was usually as easy a shot as the first one - he doesn't get the bonuses. Since there are so few maps, I remember the more surprising spawn points so as not to trigger them.

Grenades do work on Impossible, though, thanks to 4hp, leaving one for gun kill.

[Tacobandit]

I'm assuming that SW means standard weapon. Flanking gives an unmodified +50% chance critical.

What I meant by "hard-pressed" is that your rookies are most likely going to miss the aliens, even on a flank shot. Their accuracy is just too horrible to be reliable. Sure you might hit with one rookie, but that doesn't mean you'll hit with your other 3.

Shotguns will probably put them down, but you'll have to dash. And that opens up activations. Wave bye bye to the assault. If you have a support and have some shots near full cover, I toss a smoke on them and start firing on aliens because the aliens now have a 15% shot on those guys. Heavies are garbage at aiming. I just use them for when the aliens just REALLY need to die.

What is N? Is that some type of fish/X-COM Guru? OK, I call my group T. My group T has encountered roving squads of AI while on UFO missions. I'll move up a few squares and overwatch for like 5 turns (w/o activation) and wait for Muton squads to drift on over.

And no, I didn't see them act as a free turn. I mean I ended the turn, had a sectoid Mind Merge, and the merger then proceeded to crit my sgt.

TL;DR You have an insane amount of faith in your rookies' aiming abilities.

[HWP]

I'm assuming that SW means standard weapon. Flanking gives an unmodified +50% chance critical.

SW stands for Second Wave.

Unless specified otherwise, SW is played with all non-broken options on. Flanking gives 100% critical then.

What I meant by "hard-pressed" is that your rookies are most likely going to miss the aliens, even on a flank shot. Their accuracy is just too horrible to be reliable. Sure you might hit with one rookie, but that doesn't mean you'll hit with your other 3.

And?

It's 4 hit points normal, 5 merged.

A rifle does 3 damage. So it's 2 hits to kill - merged or not.

Only when you use shotguns does that extra hp start to matter. They'd be better off just shooting you than playing mergers.

Heavies are garbage at aiming.

Heavies are for missiles and on higher levels grenades.

What is N? Is that some type of fish/X-COM Guru?

It's Nexus, where, I think, like 75% of EU modding is taking place. All UPK work included. Well. If we discount "hey look I made this INI mod ripoff", it might even be 100%.

TL;DR You have an insane amount of faith in your rookies' aiming abilities.

No. You completely misread the issue. It's that in mid-game you one-shot them always, in early game you don't one-shot them anyway. There's but a tiny window where that extra hp actually affects the number of shots required for a kill.

[Tacobandit]

SW stands for Second Wave.

Unless specified otherwise, SW is played with all non-broken options on. Flanking gives 100% critical then.

And?

It's 4 hit points normal, 5 merged.

A rifle does 3 damage. So it's 2 hits to kill - merged or not.

Only when you use shotguns does that extra hp start to matter. They'd be better off just shooting you than playing mergers.

Heavies are for missiles and on higher levels grenades.

It's Nexus, where, I think, like 75% of EU modding is taking place. All UPK work included. Well. If we discount "hey look I made this INI mod ripoff", it might even be 100%.

No. You completely misread the issue. It's that in mid-game you one-shot them always, in early game you don't one-shot them anyway. There's but a tiny window where that extra hp actually affects the number of shots required for a kill.

Oh this is about HP? I thought you were trying to say sectoids were not dangerous. Yeah they're really easy to kill, my point was that mind merge made them deadlier, in exchange for a weakness.

Actually I should change that to "easy to kill assuming your rookies manage to hit them".

Edited January 29, 2013 by Tacobandit