Thoughts & Lessons from X-COM: Enemy Unknown (by Firaxis)

[nokim]

I have to agree with just about everything on the first post. i have finished the game on impossible but without the ironman mode. Another things that i found really annoying is that if a soldier panicked it was pretty much guaranteed that it would shoot and kill another of my soldiers. In the original there was a chance of that happening but just that...a chance and that was with 14+ other soldiers available if that happened, with a squad of 6 and a paniicker kills 1 thats a major blow.

that strategy layer is very limited, and replayability is very very small. honestly if it had been everything the original had but with those graphics it would have been heaven for me and it would be another x-com i would be playing for YEARS!!! i really loved the graphics, but was beyond dissapointed at how stream lined it was, you cant just shoot thru a wall if you feel like it and get the alien behind it, unless u got a granade. little things like that really take away the fun from a game. I miss the epic fights from original xocom taking 14 soldiers and 3 tanks vs an equally large force of aliens.

Lets be honest..who here did not go shoot rampage with heavy plasma or level an entire town with blaster launcher for giggles and laughs? THis is what made x-com fun, the freedom to go nuts.

My hopes now reside with xenonauts, but like yoda once said "there is another.." but i just hope xenonauts captures what the recent x-com could not.

[TrashMan]

If there is one thing I do not miss is huge squads. It just gets too unwieldy.

8-12 poeple MAX. Anything more than that is a pain in the arse.

But otherwise I agree with yaou.

[Tacobandit]

I have to agree with just about everything on the first post. i have finished the game on impossible but without the ironman mode. Another things that i found really annoying is that if a soldier panicked it was pretty much guaranteed that it would shoot and kill another of my soldiers. In the original there was a chance of that happening but just that...a chance and that was with 14+ other soldiers available if that happened, with a squad of 6 and a paniicker kills 1 thats a major blow.

that strategy layer is very limited, and replayability is very very small. honestly if it had been everything the original had but with those graphics it would have been heaven for me and it would be another x-com i would be playing for YEARS!!! i really loved the graphics, but was beyond dissapointed at how stream lined it was, you cant just shoot thru a wall if you feel like it and get the alien behind it, unless u got a granade. little things like that really take away the fun from a game. I miss the epic fights from original xocom taking 14 soldiers and 3 tanks vs an equally large force of aliens.

Lets be honest..who here did not go shoot rampage with heavy plasma or level an entire town with blaster launcher for giggles and laughs? THis is what made x-com fun, the freedom to go nuts.

My hopes now reside with xenonauts, but like yoda once said "there is another.." but i just hope xenonauts captures what the recent x-com could not.

At least in EU your soldiers won't "accidentally" hit your commanding officer while firing at an alien 20 tiles away. Or miss the literal broad side of a barn with a rocket launcher. RIP Doom Guy, taken too soon.

[nokim]

At least in EU your soldiers won't "accidentally" hit your commanding officer while firing at an alien 20 tiles away. Or miss the literal broad side of a barn with a rocket launcher. RIP Doom Guy, taken too soon.

your talking about something that happened early in game when they have crap accuracy, they eventually get to 80-90% hit rate even at max range and that stops happening. But in the recent one there is just no hope, if its in sight and they panick the first thing they try to kill is your nearest soldier.

Anyway you look at it, loosing 1 of 14 isnt as bad as 1/6.

[Gorlom]

Anyway you look at it, loosing 1 of 14 isnt as bad as 1/6.

It's allways equally horrible to lose Capt Awsesomeness regardless of how many friends he brought to the party. It might even be worse if he was the only social glue holding the group together.

[SunnyDrake]

NG has more tactics than the OG. Don't make up BS. The rest is your opinion, but saying the OG has more tactics is a straight up lie.

XCOM3 is Apocalypse.

read this closely section Gameplay of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Apocalypse

More strategy options, not only troop area battles, more complex and noticeable use of research in vehicles.. etc.. more complex fundings and options to get it. One of good addons to troop battles is task to protect civilians which was done right(and made good impact on strategy/equipment use). Playing in XCOM games later i did not found any improvements in this areas, usually it's stripped down amount of equipment sets. Good if balanced and tasked, some style add (like horror) and 3d engine.

[Tacobandit]

XCOM3 is Apocalypse.

read this closely section Gameplay of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Apocalypse

More strategy options, not only troop area battles, more complex and noticeable use of research in vehicles.. etc.. more complex fundings and options to get it. One of good addons to troop battles is task to protect civilians which was done right(and made good impact on strategy/equipment use). Playing in XCOM games later i did not found any improvements in this areas, usually it's stripped down amount of equipment sets. Good if balanced and tasked, some style add (like horror) and 3d engine.

I'm not sure if this guy is agreeing with me or disagreeing.

[Tacobandit]

your talking about something that happened early in game when they have crap accuracy, they eventually get to 80-90% hit rate even at max range and that stops happening. But in the recent one there is just no hope, if its in sight and they panick the first thing they try to kill is your nearest soldier.

Anyway you look at it, loosing 1 of 14 isnt as bad as 1/6.

Really? You were able to keep a full squad of soldiers alive through the entire game? Jesus that's unbelievable. I went through rookies like hotcakes. The only consistent survivor I had of missions was my commander, those 3-4 unused rookies in the back, and maybe 1 or 2 squaddies who exited the skyranger.

Of course once you get psionics, then you can just MC the aliens, make them drop their weapons, and line them up into execution lines. Then it was Firing Accuracy Training.

[nokim]

Really? You were able to keep a full squad of soldiers alive through the entire game? Jesus that's unbelievable. I went through rookies like hotcakes. The only consistent survivor I had of missions was my commander, those 3-4 unused rookies in the back, and maybe 1 or 2 squaddies who exited the skyranger.

Of course once you get psionics, then you can just MC the aliens, make them drop their weapons, and line them up into execution lines. Then it was Firing Accuracy Training.

well i mostly played superhuman mode, and saved before any battle started and after it ended just incase i had some truly horrible wipe out, but those where extremely rare. In super mode there are so many aliens that soldiers would gain stats super fast, but i found ways to reduce my casualties to maybe 1-2 per mission or 0. So by the time i had mind control it wasnt unusual for me to have 1 commander, a colonel or two and a crap load of captains(I recruited a lot to find 90+ psy ability soldiers)

the hard part was getting to the alien ships, once there i would only have maybe 1 casualty no matter what size ship it was due to my tactics.

end game 7spsy, 7 soldier +2 hover tanks ftw.

[Tacobandit]

well i mostly played superhuman mode, and saved before any battle started and after it ended just incase i had some truly horrible wipe out, but those where extremely rare. In super mode there are so many aliens that soldiers would gain stats super fast, but i found ways to reduce my casualties to maybe 1-2 per mission or 0. So by the time i had mind control it wasnt unusual for me to have 1 commander, a colonel or two and a crap load of captains(I recruited a lot to find 90+ psy ability soldiers)

the hard part was getting to the alien ships, once there i would only have maybe 1 casualty no matter what size ship it was due to my tactics.

end game 7spsy, 7 soldier +2 hover tanks ftw.

GTFO Save Scummer. Anyone can do a perfect game when they save and reload after every move.

[nokim]

GTFO Save Scummer. Anyone can do a perfect game when they save and reload after every move.

before a battle meaning mission and after, not after every move. and there is nothing wrong with saving thats what its for. If you feel more elite never saving then good for you, i got a busy life so saving is convenient because i may have to leave the game at any second.

also there is no need for that many deaths because with the exception of terror missions, a crash landing can wait until day time to be attacked. I picked my battles.

Edited February 7, 2013 by nokim

[Gorlom]

GTFO Save Scummer. Anyone can do a perfect game when they save and reload after every move.

Did you misinterperate that on purpose?

[Tacobandit]

Did you misinterperate that on purpose?

No. I feel that games like X-COM, where most of the difficulty is from not knowing what's going to happen, or if the enemy will insta-kill your man, or if your shot will hit, is ruined by the safety net of saving.

I can understand if the game glitches on you, or if you make a brutal game breaking mistake (like accidentally skipping a terror mission).

But reloading a save just so you can save your squad? No, just no. It ruins the fun. It's basically a guaranteed win. It'd be like playing a sport and "reloading" every time the opposing team did something you didn't expect. Or "reloading" a failed goal shot in soccer until you "hit".

But that's just me. If you're going to say that it was easy to keep your squad alive in the OG, well of course it was if you save scummed.

Also, I'm not against saving progress. I don't recommend playing an 8 hour straight game of the OG.

[GizmoGomez]

I'd think that most people would get really annoyed and exasperated if their crack team of soldiers got wiped by an alien grenade thrown into the ship. If your hypothetical soccer team randomly all got kneecapped by micro-meteors mid game, would play continue? That's more akin to a save at the start of a mission, the reloading every failed goal would be more like saving before and after every turn, which nokim already said he didn't do. He also basically said that he didn't keep the same squad through the entire game, he lost men here and there, one to three per mission.

I fail to see the reason for insulting him and telling him to GTFO because his style of gameplay "ruins the fun". Isn't fun in the eye of the gamer?

But that's just me.

[djlogue]

Do you get anything like an achievement for winning on Impossible Ironman mode? Cos I am half way though march and doing quite well, although loosing 4 country's in the first month (but that is ment to happen apparently) I never thought I would make it past the second mission

[Gorlom]

I feel that games like X-COM, where most of the difficulty is from not knowing what's going to happen, or if the enemy will insta-kill your man, or if your shot will hit, is ruined by the safety net of saving.

But that's just me. If you're going to say that it was easy to keep your squad alive in the OG, well of course it was if you save scummed.

But he didnt save every turn he saved before and after ground battles/missions. He didn't know what was going to happen in them anymore then you when you played without saving (for however long you don't save in UFO:EU). That isn't savescumming.

He said he only reloded if he suffered "horrible wipeouts" (like losing the whole squad kind of thing). Small regular losses didn't make him reload.

Don't put words in his mouth.

[djlogue]

But he didnt save every turn he saved before and after ground battles/missions. He didn't know what was going to happen in them anymore then you when you played without saving (for however long you don't save in UFO:EU). That isn't savescumming.

He said he only reloded if he suffered "horrible wipeouts" (like losing the whole squad kind of thing). Small regular losses didn't make him reload.

Don't put words in his mouth.

+1

[Tacobandit]

But he didnt save every turn he saved before and after ground battles/missions. He didn't know what was going to happen in them anymore then you when you played without saving (for however long you don't save in UFO:EU). That isn't savescumming.

He said he only reloded if he suffered "horrible wipeouts" (like losing the whole squad kind of thing). Small regular losses didn't make him reload.

Don't put words in his mouth.

"but i found ways to reduce my casualties to maybe 1-2 per mission or 0."

No. Just no. On superhuman? And why would you reload on a squad wipeout? Unless it was caused by the prox mine bug, it's your own damn fault for clustering your troops together. This is most likely to happen with a blaster launcher, as the aliens rarely ever threw grenades in UFO Defense.

Reloading the game after a "squad wipe" allows you to know where the aliens spawn, where you landed, the terrain, the type of alien you are fighting, etc. That's cheating. There could be a floater camping your landing gear and sniping your men as they come out. Knowing that, you could just reload and save all those men that got slaughtered coming out of the skyranger. And if you're trying to imply that "squadwipes" are game breakers, no they aren't. They're not nearly as bad as they were in EU. Your soldiers, for all intents and purposes, are basically clones of each other. A skyranger of 14 rookies is not significantly different from a squad of superhuman soldiers. They can both shoot the same amount, use every weapon, and wear any armor.

If you want proof, I can show you a disastrous terror mission I did that resulted in a squad wipe. And then the following month being a breeze.

[nokim]

"but i found ways to reduce my casualties to maybe 1-2 per mission or 0."

No. Just no. On superhuman? And why would you reload on a squad wipeout? Unless it was caused by the prox mine bug, it's your own damn fault for clustering your troops together. This is most likely to happen with a blaster launcher, as the aliens rarely ever threw grenades in UFO Defense.

Like i said, on missions once i got to the ship even if it was a mothership i could reduce my deaths to 0...why? how? i would simply wait outside the door until i heard doors opening and check inside now and then shoot, kill and get back out(as i clear the rest of map), until they where thinned out and sometimes completely wiped.( not much diff from x-com eu where i wait behind large objects and peek around to see if they have gotten close enough for me to granade or shoot) I guess you never tried that.

how to wipe on superhuman...lets see.. dark terror missions soldiers all spread out thru map by 2s (since i never take more than 14 soldiers because i take 3 tanks when i get the big ship) chrysalid pop out of building infects a soldier or two, unlucky hits that dont kill (probably because im still using rifles or laser guns)and now u got more deaths and you either wipe or get left with only 1 soldier finishing and he happens to be ur rookie, all higher ranks gone.

another wipe out, you land, you spread out without spotting anything then..you get hit with mind controls and soldiers granading or shooting you own soldiers, when all is said and done..maybe you managed to survive etherals or maybe you dont but you loose all your high ranking soldiers.

you are down to 4 soldiers, horrible loss but ok still willing to not replay the now 35-40min battle, UNTIL..you go into that last room, and the second you step foot that last alien apparently has godly reaction times and he drops 3 (iv had this happen on up to 5 soldiers and that kinda pissed me off)of your soldiers as they walk thru the door..oh and the last one panicks and maybe gets MCd just for kicks.

If im far enough along the game yeah..with 1 surviving soldier i might be ok to continue(since i prob have 20+ soldiers waiting in base) but iv spent a lot of time getting them to high rank and 75+sta points so maybe i dont want to loose and if im in my 1st or 3 rd month i probably will defenitely reload because if i actually lost the squad which would include the skyranger thats not just a set back it pretty much ends the game.As i tend to have little onhand cash due to heavy investment in scientists and research.

so yes, exploring outside spaceship is the dangerous part, once at the ship only takes 1-2 soldiers to severely thin out or wipe the aliens while the rest of the map gets cleared.I try to pick my missions, by attacking during the day (sometimes night cant be avoided).

[Tacobandit]

Like i said, on missions once i got to the ship even if it was a mothership i could reduce my deaths to 0...why? how? i would simply wait outside the door until i heard doors opening and check inside now and then shoot, kill and get back out(as i clear the rest of map), until they where thinned out and sometimes completely wiped.( not much diff from x-com eu where i wait behind large objects and peek around to see if they have gotten close enough for me to granade or shoot) I guess you never tried that.

how to wipe on superhuman...lets see.. dark terror missions soldiers all spread out thru map by 2s (since i never take more than 14 soldiers because i take 3 tanks when i get the big ship) chrysalid pop out of building infects a soldier or two, unlucky hits that dont kill (probably because im still using rifles or laser guns)and now u got more deaths and you either wipe or get left with only 1 soldier finishing and he happens to be ur rookie, all higher ranks gone.

another wipe out, you land, you spread out without spotting anything then..you get hit with mind controls and soldiers granading or shooting you own soldiers, when all is said and done..maybe you managed to survive etherals or maybe you dont but you loose all your high ranking soldiers.

you are down to 4 soldiers, horrible loss but ok still willing to not replay the now 35-40min battle, UNTIL..you go into that last room, and the second you step foot that last alien apparently has godly reaction times and he drops 3 (iv had this happen on up to 5 soldiers and that kinda pissed me off)of your soldiers as they walk thru the door..oh and the last one panicks and maybe gets MCd just for kicks.

If im far enough along the game yeah..with 1 surviving soldier i might be ok to continue(since i prob have 20+ soldiers waiting in base) but iv spent a lot of time getting them to high rank and 75+sta points so maybe i dont want to loose and if im in my 1st or 3 rd month i probably will defenitely reload because if i actually lost the squad which would include the skyranger thats not just a set back it pretty much ends the game.As i tend to have little onhand cash due to heavy investment in scientists and research.

so yes, exploring outside spaceship is the dangerous part, once at the ship only takes 1-2 soldiers to severely thin out or wipe the aliens while the rest of the map gets cleared.I try to pick my missions, by attacking during the day (sometimes night cant be avoided).

On terror missions, you can send ships to intercept the sight until it is daylight, and then you can send your skyranger. It's an exploit that won't make the site disappear.

[HWP]

If you notice, everything has been scaled down by 10. That's it. The only difference is that in the OG, damage had a huge variance (0-200%).

No. The difference is that in the OG, your guys didn't run around with 250 hit points.

What do you consider a "perfect game"? Going to every abduction? Not getting hit ever? Not losing a single country?

Doing every possible mission. Not losing any soldiers. Saving most civilians on terror missions. Or, put simply, having the game tell you "excellent" about every metric of performance.

It's a game about building satellites. Right. Alright, here's a challenge. Ignore every abduction and just build satellites. I want to see if you win.

There won't be any abductions if you build enough satellites.

They should have called the game "Satellite Tycoon". Catchy, Firaxis-like, and accurate.

[Tacobandit]

No. The difference is that in the OG, your guys didn't run around with 250 hit points.

Doing every possible mission. Not losing any soldiers. Saving most civilians on terror missions. Or, put simply, having the game tell you "excellent" about every metric of performance.

There won't be any abductions if you build enough satellites.

They should have called the game "Satellite Tycoon". Catchy, Firaxis-like, and accurate.

You're right. You didn't run around with 250 hit points. You ran around with 60 max. With armor, you could survive anything from 129-169 damage. Any more (which was highly likely) and your guy was dead. What's your point? Are you trying to say that more HP makes the game easier? Hint: it doesn't.

Yeah maybe on SW it may be possible, but I/I w/o SW is totally possible on every game. SW is stuff that the devs thought were way too cruel to put in impossible.

I've played 4 Impossible games and beat them all. Not on ironman, but technically if I were able to beat it at all, then there IS a way, and it's not impossible to win.

Guess what? There won't be any terror missions or any completed alien missions at all once you have global Hyper Wave Decoder coverage up in the OG. They should call that Hyper Wave Decoder Tycoon.

Oh wait, what's that? You have to kill lots of aliens and progress into the game before you can do that? You mean like how you have to kill lots of aliens and progress into the game before you can have complete satellite coverage? It's almost like they're the same thing.

[Gorlom]

"but i found ways to reduce my casualties to maybe 1-2 per mission or 0."

No. Just no. On superhuman? And why would you reload on a squad wipeout? Unless it was caused by the prox mine bug, it's your own damn fault for clustering your troops together. This is most likely to happen with a blaster launcher, as the aliens rarely ever threw grenades in UFO Defense.

Reloading the game after a "squad wipe" allows you to know where the aliens spawn, where you landed, the terrain, the type of alien you are fighting, etc. That's cheating. There could be a floater camping your landing gear and sniping your men as they come out. Knowing that, you could just reload and save all those men that got slaughtered coming out of the skyranger. And if you're trying to imply that "squadwipes" are game breakers, no they aren't. They're not nearly as bad as they were in EU. Your soldiers, for all intents and purposes, are basically clones of each other. A skyranger of 14 rookies is not significantly different from a squad of superhuman soldiers. They can both shoot the same amount, use every weapon, and wear any armor.

If you want proof, I can show you a disastrous terror mission I did that resulted in a squad wipe. And then the following month being a breeze.

I don't really care. Just don't put words in his mouth.

[GizmoGomez]

Since when does having more HP not make things easier? How does that even make sense?

Getting shot in the chest, and dying, vs, getting shot in the chest and surviving. Which makes life easier for you?

That would change everything. You can take more hits, so you can fight the aliens without as many casualties. You have fewer casualties, meaning you have more experienced troops as time goes on, troops that would have died earlier if they had less HP. This leads to the developing higher attributes per soldier, a higher attribute average for all of your troops, and since there are more ranking officers the morale stat is higher for your troops, etc.

Having more HP (or a higher soldier HP to enemy weapon damage ratio, to be technical) definitely makes the game easier.

[nokim]

Are you trying to say that more HP makes the game easier? Hint: it doesn't.

Guess what? There won't be any terror missions or any completed alien missions at all once you have global Hyper Wave Decoder coverage up in the OG. They should call that Hyper Wave Decoder Tycoon.

Oh wait, what's that? You have to kill lots of aliens and progress into the game before you can do that? You mean like how you have to kill lots of aliens and progress into the game before you can have complete satellite coverage? It's almost like they're the same thing.

1. you cant be serious about the HP part, any game you play having more health is always better than having less health, just like more armor is better than less armor.To say thats not true cant even be taken seriously.

2. in old game if you really want that terror missions after having the decoder simply DON't shoot down the ship that shows as terrror and let it land...problem solved.Remind me again what the similiar option is on the new one after you have all satellites up? oh yeah..there is none. Once again.... +1 for the older x-com 0 for the newer version.

btw.. 4 times impossible mode? wow man! i thought i was patient, even i was falling asleep near the end of my first impossible mode.I honestly took a 2 week break from the game since it got so boring, thinking i could do that purple ship and continue the rest of the story only to find out i delayed 2 weeks just for a game ending battle(which btw was dissapointingly weak- even stormed both the giant robot things with 1 psy storm.) .With only a few maps that simply get rotated on position, i dont know how many but i swear it felt like it was only 5 different maps I lost interest pretty fast.