Feature Request: Change ground orientation

[Hiraga]

I would like to request to allow change of orientation of the ground battle, because many times, an object is ocluded by another like an alien after a wall or even a xenonauts operative, while it clearly shows at GUI as visible.

[Max_Caine]

I'm sorry Hiraga, this question does appear a lot and looking at the threads it appears in, the answer is the same each time it's asked: can't be done. Try searching "rotate screen" for a sample.

[PRiME]

What can be done however is that when a soldier is behind a wall, make that wall transparent in the immediate area so you can see them and Aliens. Or items. This would be cool and I think some of it is present in game already? Its real easy to do in my opinion for bitmaps ( I have done 2d/3d game dev before).

[Gorlom]

I think there are some issues with the engine to alter images like that.

I guess you could make every wall tile etc (anything high enough to obscure a unit on the same level) have double sprites. One semi transparent overlayed on a solid one. (both are exactly the same except for the opacity.)

That way you could have all the soldier sprites appear in front of the solid sprite, but behind the semi transparent one. The unit would be visible through the wall but it would still be clear that he is behind it without altering any images on the fly.

No idea if this is possible though. Down side is that it would require more assets and make the game take up more space on the computer

[PRiME]

We are talking 2d here, adding in transparent alterations on the fly is kinda well basic, it should really be there if not already.

[Gorlom]

We are talking 2d here, adding in transparent alterations on the fly is kinda well basic, it should really be there if not already.

I am certain Chris has said that the engine doesn't support it regardless of how basic it is, and that he curses the first programmer he hired for choosing the crappy engine in the first place.

[PRiME]

Oh dear, well I hope he has source code. Perhaps he is open to free help in the future for adding in such features. I know he is on a tight budget and can't simply hire a programmer to fix the engine.

[Gorlom]

I think he said he does not have source code to the engine.

[PRiME]

He has a GC Programmer? GameCode? I dunno. Anyway you can probably still do it via a graphics shader or something. Alternatively you can simply replace the tile set like you said when solder moves next to it with one that is, holy (assuming transparent textures exist in the game, which I am sure they do)

[Max_Caine]

Gorlom is right, Chris doesn't have the source code to the engine. It's the reason he cites for having to have a WINE wrapper for the Linux version.

[Chris]

There is minor transparency in place already, you can see it on the Chinook's walls when a mission starts. We'll just have to set all the walls in the game to do it properly in beta.

[jars_u]

...I guess you could make every wall tile etc (anything high enough to obscure a unit on the same level)...semi transparent ...The unit would be visible through the wall but it would still be clear that he is behind it...

If possible... I think this would be the best solution.

[Gorlom]

They would look odd if they were semi transparent for no reason (ie when no one is behind them)

[Buzzles]

FWIW, I'm quite a fan of Fallout 1 and 2's method of having a brightly coloured outline around characters in combat mode.

I was thinking it might not be appropriate for this game, but if it only had an outline around xenonauts and spotted enemies that are hidden from the players view by walls/objects, it would be handy.

Not sure if it'll play well with the sprite system, should be doable though.

[Gauddlike]

According to Chris a while back outlines can't be done.

They would involve replacing all of the sprites for an outline sprite.

That may have changed but I would think that was unlikely.

The game just loads up an image file, it doesn't actually know what the image is or where the borders of that image are so wouldn't be able to outline them.

[Chris]

Yeah the outline is what can't be done in the engine, rather than the transparency. It's a shame as it would be a very neat way of solving the issue.

[Buzzles]

I suppose you do need access to the render code to do outlines, as you'd be doing some thing similar to taking the mask used for the alpha blending and scaling it by a few pixels while also recolouring it.

Yeah, I could see why if you don't have source access it would be impossible to add it.

[Quartermaster]

I think there are some issues with the engine to alter images like that.

I guess you could make every wall tile etc (anything high enough to obscure a unit on the same level) have double sprites. One semi transparent overlayed on a solid one. (both are exactly the same except for the opacity.)

That way you could have all the soldier sprites appear in front of the solid sprite, but behind the semi transparent one. The unit would be visible through the wall but it would still be clear that he is behind it without altering any images on the fly.

No idea if this is possible though. Down side is that it would require more assets and make the game take up more space on the computer

The game can handle semi-transparency already (at least it does so in the sub-map editor which uses the same engine). It does so whenever you have a soldier inside a room on the southern facing walls. I'm guessing that changing the dynamic so that semi-transparency is determined by the proximity to a soldier should be possible at this point.

Edit: Never mind... I read the first page and didn't notice there was a second page to the thread.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Quartermaster
Idiocy

[Gorlom]

The game can handle semi-transparency already (at least it does so in the sub-map editor which uses the same engine). It does so whenever you have a soldier inside a room on the southern facing walls. I'm guessing that changing the dynamic so that semi-transparency is determined by the proximity to a soldier should be possible at this point.

Edit: Never mind... I read the first page and didn't notice there was a second page to the thread.

I was suggesting that you didn't have to have any detection. The wall would always be solid on the layer under the soldier and a semi transparent layer in front of the soldier. This would allow you to get the impression that the wall becomes semi transparent and lets the soldier shine through, while still making it clear the soldier is behind the wall. And as long as nothing is behind it the wall just looks like a regular solid wall.

Is what I'm trying to explain clear or confusing? Or simply stupidbecause I don't understand how things work?

Edited July 11, 2012 by Gorlom

[Quartermaster]

I was suggesting that you didn't have to have any detection. The wall would always be solid on the layer under the soldier and a semi transparent layer in front of the soldier. This would allow you to get the impression that the wall becomes semi transparent and lets the soldier shine through, while still making it clear the soldier is behind the wall. And as long as nothing is behind it the wall just looks like a regular solid wall.

Is what I'm trying to explain clear or confusing? Or simply stupidbecause I don't understand how things work?

What you are saying makes sense to me at least. I am going to attempt to break down what I think you mean into the logical structure of how the transparency would be determined.

For each soldier the transparency for the objects on the soldier's tile and neighboring tiles would be determined, by the following:

1. If the same tile, any of the tiles spectres (except the ground tile) that are oriented SE or SW would be transparent.

2. On the tiles that are SE and SW of the tile the soldier is standing on, the walls that are NW and NE, respectively, would be transparent.

3. On the tiles that are SE, S, and SW of the soldier's tile, if there is a spectre that takes up the whole tile it would be rendered transparent.

It should not be necessary to check tiles beyond these, because the isometric view should prevent them from overlapping the soldier.

[Gorlom]

If that post was about what I meant, then I don't think that was what I meant at all ( I found it a bit confusing).

I meant that all tiles/specters that can obstruct the soldier sprites would have 2 layers. 1 layer on top of the soldier sprite and one below the soldier sprite. Assuming that it's a wall on the SW edge of the tile the soldier is standing on there would be 2 layers for that single wall tile. Other then that they would work exactly the same as they work now. This way you wouldn't really need to check to determine transparency IMO. and it would allow for transparency through the wall a tile above the tile that is wall-adjecent... OFC you would have to make sure the semi transparent layer of a NE (or NW) wall doesn't overlap the solid layer of a SW (or SE) wall in a corner.

(just having one layer that always shows under the soldier would look a bit odd as we have already seen with some specter bugs but I think that it would look ok with an additional semi transparent layer on top of both the soldier and the solid layer below him)

PS. my head feels like it's swimming through porridge so I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't make sense.... or understand you correctly quartermaster.

[Quartermaster]

I think we are on the same page based on your description. I am using the terms that the submap editor uses for the orientation of the images on the screen and.

As to what you are referring to in regards to what images overlap other images on the screen that is a function of the sort rank (value maybe?) parameter for a spectre. Soldier images are 0.5 as are most tiles. Lower values indicate that something should go in front of another object. When the value is identical for two spectres on the same tile it has a tendency for one of them to get cut off which is what results in the odd looking walls and stairwells. There is currently an issue (in my opinion) of how the sort values are set up for walls that needs resolved yet. Essentially someone needs to sit down and figure out what the proper order is for spectres to be put on the screen. For example all walls that are on the sides of tiles that are toward the top of the screen need their sort order set to something higher.

There is no need for "two" layers for a single tile, because that issue just needs sorted out with the sort rank parameter of the image spectres in order for the images to function correctly.

[Gorlom]

There is no need for "two" layers for a single tile, because that issue just needs sorted out with the sort rank parameter of the image spectres in order for the images to function correctly.

That is assuming you use some detection and switch out the solid image with a transparent one right? well whatever works in the end.