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Emily_F

Mind war balance

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I'm not sure if this is correct, but it seems Mind War = Mind Control all of the time. Went on a terror mission and half my squad were under mind control in one turn, which is a bit ridiculous.  I think they should only be able to do MW if there is direct line of sight (even if it is by one of the lower ranks, unlocking it for the MC'ers. And there should be grades of MC; i.e. freeze, panic/beserk, low-grade MC (i.e. they are under MC but under suppression so only have half TUs) and high-grade MC where they get a full turn under MC. These should have appropriate TUs and chances of success. The current system is a bit pants. 

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On 7/27/2019 at 4:44 AM, Emily_F said:

I'm not sure if this is correct, but it seems Mind War = Mind Control all of the time. Went on a terror mission and half my squad were under mind control in one turn, which is a bit ridiculous.  I think they should only be able to do MW if there is direct line of sight (even if it is by one of the lower ranks, unlocking it for the MC'ers. And there should be grades of MC; i.e. freeze, panic/beserk, low-grade MC (i.e. they are under MC but under suppression so only have half TUs) and high-grade MC where they get a full turn under MC. These should have appropriate TUs and chances of success. The current system is a bit pants. 

While I don't know this for absolutely certain, Mind War tells you the turn before it takes effect, giving time to disarm the unit, but I think it can also chain to some degree. It's not ideal, but probably doesn't have a LoS limiter yet. 

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Mind War is way too powerful at the moment. There is basically no way to counter it. I just ran into it for the first time, and it is incredibly frustrating, even if it doesn't really have a massive effect. So far I have had a soldier mind controlled every single turn, and it is frustrating because I cannot do anything. Having a trooper drop their weapon or whatever is dumb and not interesting, because it just delays me. This isn't helped by the only two psyons visible that I haven't killed running away for no apparent reason. I wouldn't be frustrated if I could see whatever psyon is mind controlling my guys and kill it, but I can't.

In short, Mind War needs to be limited to line of sight, as otherwise it is just delaying me and being frustrating without adding to gameplay at all.

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The mind shields are off completely NO use, you have to have the trooper drop their weapon and run out of the others sight, or they will blast the guy??

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Yeah, Mind Shields currently don't provide any bonus against alien psionics - but that'll be fixed in the next few patches.

Perhaps the alien psions are too strong at the moment, but it's not true that there's no defence against Mind War - it's a check versus the unit's Bravery vs. the alien Psionic Strength, with a random element added on. And the aliens have to succeed by more than 30 to Mind Control a unit rather than just panic it.

Units also get a bonus to their Bravery equal to the % of TU that they have remaining, though, so if a unit has full TU at the end of your turn they have double bravery and have a much better chance of resisting it. And you should be taking low Bravery soldiers into battle against Psyons anyway, really. I appreciate none of that is explained in the game atm though so I can definitely see how Mind War is frustrating to play against; see if you find it any less frustrating now you know that.

Potentially there's an argument to make the random element smaller as part of a balancing pass, but that also means low Bravery soldiers will have less chance to resist a psionic attack.

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I think you might need to be careful with the random elements, and with the subjective feeling that players get in the game. It's important for bravery to feel like it matters. A lesson from X1 - it shipped with psionics not working as intended, that is, bravery was mostly meaningless and psionics were resolved with a random roll, only marginally affected by bravery. Many players complained about psionics feeling wrong but that bug went undiscovered for a few years, and resulted in the game just feeling subtly wrong in that regard.

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Less random on brain scramblage would be nice. The other day I had 3 80+BR Colonels with half TUs mind controlled on the same turn, and it resulted in a full wipe (Seems backpacking weapons doesn't work anymore).

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Mind control is the worst feature of any XCOM game saga, imho. It's just luck. And you cannot do nothing about it, no cover, no tactic, just luck. I don't like it at all, frustating and unrewarding experience. If I can, I will turn off it.

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If at least you could see which soldier was going to be controlled due to a progressive lost of moral... then maybe it would be fun.

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are psionics still working as a cross map "weather" like phenomenon? where your troops are struck at random with morale saves at a interval of per X turns until they finally kill the cause hiding somewhere deep into the base or spaceship? wouldn't this invariably lead to rather binairy counterplay?

either you have good bravery and you can ignore it, or you have bad bravery and you have to basically hog every support item AND crawl your way through the map saving TU for its bonus. that is if the RNG element isn't so large that any sort of preparation would be meaningless to begin with.

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33 minutes ago, Conductiv said:

are psionics still working as a cross map "weather" like phenomenon? where your troops are struck at random with morale saves at a interval of per X turns until they finally kill the cause hiding somewhere deep into the base or spaceship? wouldn't this invariably lead to rather binairy counterplay?

either you have good bravery and you can ignore it, or you have bad bravery and you have to basically hog every support item AND crawl your way through the map saving TU for its bonus. that is if the RNG element isn't so large that any sort of preparation would be meaningless to begin with.

I have units with bravery over 100, and with half their TUs or more left(60-90/120+), a few steps out of the dropship, morale through the roof from taking out 6 dudes in one round, and still wind up with up to 5 Mind controlled without many issues. I'm pretty sure something's bugged out of control with it. 

You can just reload the save, though. Mind War turns off entirely, teleporters turn off, and you can't target any units until your next turn for...some reason.

Edited by Coffee Potato
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3 hours ago, Coffee Potato said:

I have units with bravery over 100, and with half their TUs or more left(60-90/120+), a few steps out of the dropship, morale through the roof from taking out 6 dudes in one round, and still wind up with up to 5 Mind controlled without many issues. I'm pretty sure something's bugged out of control with it. 

You can just reload the save, though. Mind War turns off entirely, teleporters turn off, and you can't target any units until your next turn for...some reason.

^ALL of this^

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While I haven't played X2, I have to say that psionics has been the worst in both TOG and X1, just the worst, and while it might make balancing harder, I'd love an option to turn it off. It would be nice if we could train our troops against it at least, but then that needs to be a balance thing on its own, as in like each week/month you can select what training to give each of your troops, with psy being one option (accuracy, speed, strength, etc, being others).

 

But just anything other than "randomly this guy runs away or panics" because it's just a mechanic that at best is obnoxious and at worst is unbalancing in the extreme (like in TOG). I'm not sure there's a really good way to handle it, but I get that it's a good flavor thing.

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12 hours ago, DNK said:

While I haven't played X2, I have to say that psionics has been the worst in both TOG and X1, just the worst, and while it might make balancing harder, I'd love an option to turn it off. It would be nice if we could train our troops against it at least, but then that needs to be a balance thing on its own, as in like each week/month you can select what training to give each of your troops, with psy being one option (accuracy, speed, strength, etc, being others).

 

But just anything other than "randomly this guy runs away or panics" because it's just a mechanic that at best is obnoxious and at worst is unbalancing in the extreme (like in TOG). I'm not sure there's a really good way to handle it, but I get that it's a good flavor thing.

Technically, it does a Bravery check, so the training is there, but at the moment something is going wrong with the way it's calculating, apparently.

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They do seem to be aware, of this problem, and hope that when the next pre-build is offered up, it will be on the mend.

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