wiglafman1225 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 On the main Xenonauts website, you quote Rock Paper Shotgun as saying "I've been waiting a long time for an X-Com remake that actually feels anything like X-Com. It was not in my nature to believe that dreams can come true." Trouble is, RPS never said that. The writer said "It IS not in my nature to believe dreams can come true." Your quote makes it seem like the writer felt Xenonauts was the answer to his dreams. That's not what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I don't think the tense really changes the sentiment of the utterance. In both cases he means that Xenonauts stood in contrast to his preconception but misquotes should be corrected regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiglafman1225 Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) I don't think that's quite right. In the original article, that statement, "It is not in my nature to believe dreams can come true," is the last sentence in a paragraph that does not even mention Xenonauts. Obviously, the RPS article was ultimately very positive for Xenonauts, but I think it is important for false advertising purposes to note that the author does not go so far as to say that Xenonauts is the answer to his dream about a perfect X-COM remake that feels like X-COM. Edited April 9, 2012 by wiglafman1225 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiglafman1225 Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 Here is how Xenonauts' website quotes it: "I’VE BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME FOR AN X-COM REMAKE THAT ACTUALLY FEELS ANYTHING LIKE X-COM. IT WAS NOT IN MY NATURE TO BELIEVE THAT DREAMS CAN COME TRUE." Here is the actual paragraph: OK, I admit it: I am as cynical as you when it comes to half-suspecting that enormously ambitious, fanbase-courting independent projects announced before work on them has even begun carry the dread stench of vapourware. I’ve been very interested in Xenonauts for some time, if faintly horrified that lead designer Chris England claims he made the final decision to pour his life savings into funding an X-COM remake based on an offhand oh-if-only comment I made on RPS, but I confess wasn’t entirely convinced it would see the light of day. Partly this was due to the many tales of infamy concerning amateur game devs who started working together remotely without ever actually meeting – online tensions can run so high – and partly because I’ve been waiting a long time for an X-COM remake that actually feels anything like X-COM. It is not in my nature to believe that dreams can come true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) He doesn't mention Xenonauts in that sentence but the article is about Xenonauts. It's obvious he's referring to the thing he's writing about. The writer was doubtful of Xenonauts because of its slow start and his inherent skepticism about X-Com remakes but that changed after he's had a look at the game. The initial paragraph sets up the contrast for the rest of the article. Later on the author even says that he thinks X-nauts feels like X-Com: A playable build of Xenonauts was on show in the RPS-sponsored Indie Arcade at the Eurogamer expo last week, and pretty much everyone I spoke to about it said the same thing: “well, it’s X-COM,” they offered with a wide grin. They didn’t say what worked or what didn’t or what they’d change or anything like that – they just said “it’s like X-COM.”I can’t think of a greater compliment for any game. I think the same thing. And I’m struggling to know what to say about Xenonauts as a result. The dream came true in the sense that this game seems/feels like X-Com and has the potential to be the remake many have been waiting for but he's not making any final judgements. Both the author and his readers know it's way too early for that. Edited April 9, 2012 by Jean-Luc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I suspect Alec isn't really too bothered as his preview was rather supportive of it, just like RPS on the whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzuBuzu Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) On the main Xenonauts website, you quote Rock Paper Shotgun as saying "I've been waiting a long time for an X-Com remake that actually feels anything like X-Com. It was not in my nature to believe that dreams can come true."Trouble is, RPS never said that. The writer said "It IS not in my nature to believe dreams can come true." Your quote makes it seem like the writer felt Xenonauts was the answer to his dreams. That's not what he said. You came all the way over here and made an account on these forums just to post about one word being marginally different in a quote that by and large preserves the semantics from an overwhelmingly positive review? Congratulations! You've won a free anal probe! Edited April 9, 2012 by BuzuBuzu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiglafman1225 Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 I am not sure about your personal attacks, but it is always interesting to me to see when personal attacks are made because, on the Internet at least, they generally let me know I am onto something. I mean, as someone interested in buying a high-quality title, it DEFINITELY matters to me whether a leading game magazine said it was a dream come true --- or simply "might be." The writer was doubtful of Xenonauts because of its slow start and his inherent skepticism about X-Com remakes but that changed after he's had a look at the game. I think that is absolutely right, that the author is much less skeptical of Xenonauts than other remakes. But the quote on Xenonauts' website, you must realize, makes it seem like the game in its current state is the dream come true. I suspect that is why the webmaster changed the quote in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) You came all the way over here and made an account on these forums just to post about one word being marginally different in a quote that by and large preserves the semantics from an overwhelmingly positive review?Congratulations! You've won a free anal probe! Buzu we could do without such comments. please restrain yourself a bit. wiglaf: I don't think this requires its own thread really. A PM or email to Chris about the typo/mistake would imo have been much smoother then a thread open to the internet and all it's loud opinions. After all it is something that should be corrected rather then opinionated. Edited April 9, 2012 by Gorlom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Yeah, really. No need to make a fuss over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 still... it's either an accurate quote or it isn't....and ..um..it isn't. :-) Even if the article does support the quote and it's not at all like the movie reviews. "There are classic horror movies. This is definitely not one of them." becomes "There are classic horror movies. This is...one of them." :-) You mean the probes aren't always free? What's the point in joining an UFO forum if you can't get abducted for free probing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiglafman1225 Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 I think it is perfectly valid to raise the developer's honesty and openness about the project, and criticism it has received. I ended up purchasing Xenonauts and hope it to be a great investment, but I did so mainly because my cursory look at the developer made them seem trustworthy and transparent. Modifying game review quotes --- especially ones from big name reviewers --- to be gushing with praise, is a red flag to me and maybe others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Wouldn't it be a better gauge of his honesty to see if he first change the error without the pressure of the attention of every forumgoer? And if he does not change it make the thread, after beeing satisfied that he has had enough time to go through his email and respond to it? Right now it jsut comes off as slander and I think you can understand why some go on the defensive for such an insignificant infraction. I personally can't see the difference in which form of the word is used. It looks a bit obsessive compulsionary to me to call upon the attention of everyone for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiglafman1225 Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) I don't need to gauge their honesty myself --- this is not really rocket science. It's pretty clear the misquote was intentional because it changes the meaning of the sentence significantly, and in favor of Xenonauts. I'm trying to bring it to people's attention, though of course, convincing fans of a game that the founders are not being totally truthful with them is obviously no easy task. (Even when it's patently obvious there's been some foolishness going on.) Also, I am slandering no one. I am pointing out a misquote that is indefensible and unavoidably a misquote. I fear people may be making a decision to purchase the game because its developers claim RPS endorsed it as a dream come true. They did not, and it needs to change. Plain and simple.. Edited April 9, 2012 by wiglafman1225 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Now you are beeing anal-retentive about it. Most people don't put put that much value on just one word. And everyone can... well... most people can see that the game is not complete, therefor the reviewer can't use the past tense of the word if it is truely going to represent his opinion/standpoint. While you think it is intentional, everyone else can see with equal clairity that it is a mistake and unintentional change that has happened when retyping the quote. (not everyone copy-paste or have perfect recollection, and it is easy to miss insignificant things like which temoral form to use) You stress what a big change to the tone of the article it implies. I still claim I can't see the difference. And I think many people that doesn't have English as a native language agree with me. Probably even some that has English as the mothertongue. Edited April 10, 2012 by Gorlom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The New Romance Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Oioi. Ever heard of this guy, and that guy? Better get the quote corrected and be done with it (although I don't think RPS would be irritated with what it says now). I wonder why this causes such a long thread, however, it isn't that much of a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I wonder why this causes such a long thread, however, it isn't that much of a problem...Because OP thinks it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiglafman1225 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) While you think it is intentional, everyone else can see with equal clairity that it is a mistake and unintentional change that has happened when retyping the quote Wait...you really think this quote would be powerful? At all?? "I’VE BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME FOR AN X-COM REMAKE THAT ACTUALLY FEELS ANYTHING LIKE X-COM. IT IS NOT IN MY NATURE TO BELIEVE THAT DREAMS CAN COME TRUE." That statement doesn't belong on any advertising materials. It is a careful statement of reservation about the quality of Xenonauts. The misquote, by contrast, turns it into gushing praise from a major tech gaming publication!! The change was clearly not an innocent typo. I am sorry you do not take this that seriously. I thought it'd be obvious that a blatant misquote of a major tech journalist would be a problem, but I guess not. With respect, you are letting your love of the project get in the way of your objectivity. Edited April 10, 2012 by wiglafman1225 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) I am sorry you do not take this that seriously. I thought it'd be obvious that a blatant misquote of a major tech journalist would be a problem, but I guess not. With respect, you are letting your love of the project get in the way of your objectivity. You missunderstand me. I think it should be corrected. But I don't think it is intentional. It seems more like a mistake or missunderstanding to me. You make it out to be maliciously intended. Reading your first post it did not seem that bad. Going back to the acctual article it looks more severe. The quote is taken out of context and there are more suitible phrases to quote from an advertisement viewpoint. I consider cutting off the first part of that sentance far more incorrect then changeing the temporal form of the word "is". I am surprised to find out it's apparantly only in swedish that [...] is included (at the start) in quotations to show that something has been omitted from the quote. Edit: however that paraphraseing somewhat conveys the feel of the article. And a link to the article has been included with that qoute. I don't think it is as huge a problem as you make it out to be. Simply inform Chris that it is misrepresentative and stop being such a stuck up about it. Edited April 10, 2012 by Gorlom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiglafman1225 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 That is true. In context, the RPS paragraph makes it clear the last line is all about the author's concern about the project, not his enthusiasm for it in its current state. FYI, here is the RPS original review, and I have bolded where Xenonauts' site starts quoting, conveniently. It makes it clear this is no "Accident" but a deliberate attempt to warp the paragraph's meaning by Chris, or whoever designed the site. I’ve been very interested in Xenonauts for some time, if faintly horrified that lead designer Chris England claims he made the final decision to pour his life savings into funding an X-COM remake based on an offhand oh-if-only comment I made on RPS, but I confess wasn’t entirely convinced it would see the light of day. Partly this was due to the many tales of infamy concerning amateur game devs who started working together remotely without ever actually meeting – online tensions can run so high – and partly because I’ve been waiting a long time for an X-COM remake that actually feels anything like X-COM. It is not in my nature to believe that dreams can come true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Yes, it was an attempt to sum up the content of the article in two sentences, without using all the "..." etc. Taking a punchy recommendation from a long article is not exactly easy and I wasn't keen on posting a 500 word essay on the front page of the site. I've met Alec in person and I seriously doubt he'd have any issue with what I did; I know what his feelings were about the game and the rest of the review makes them quite clear. Nevetheless, as it obviously causes some people distress, I have updated the offending word appropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I'd just like to point out the hilarity of a thread over one misquoted word reaching page 2. Made my day. =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGuyEddy Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I'd just like to point out the hilarity of a thread over one misquoted word reaching page 2. He says on the third page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzuBuzu Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I'd just like to point out the hilarity of a thread over one misquoted word reaching page 2.Made my day. =P Anal probes for everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGuyEddy Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Anal probes for everyone! Where can i get my prize? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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