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Mikhail Ragulin

[v1.09] Magnum-nauts

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I am constantly running out of ammo on the first shotty. Feels like a personal problem mostly, so how would you change the ammo cap from the 5 to the 8 it sometimes has?

Weapons.xml and weapons_gc.xml. Find the 870 entry, and up the clipsize in both. The 870 can hold 8 anyway (or 7 + 1...it can also do 4 + 1, which is why I went for 5. I'm mean).

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Yeah, they just don't like shield guys. I think it's good - it relegates the shield to just a breaching role, instead of all-round-battlefield-saviour.

Oh wow, that just suddenly clicked that yes it has always been my shield users. It never made the connection since they and high TU carbine users are my scouts. If knew about the adjacent one had a breach ready to go and the door opened. Oops.

There's scope for that. At the moment, there are three semi-auto and one bolt-action BR - these could be split to semi-auto BR's and bolt-action snipers.

I personally think that would be an awesome idea!

Edited by Lerzan

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Oh wow, that just suddenly clicked that yes it has always been my shield users. It never made the connection since they and high TU carbine users are my scouts. If knew about the adjacent one had a breach ready to go and the door opened. Oops.

I personally think that would be an awesome idea!

Yeah, shields can be abused in vanilla because not many aliens have 'nades (it's only later aliens really that get them). But when they all get nades, shields get pushed back to what they're meant to be - a specialist tool. Low rank Sebs are the worst for nades due to their aggressiveness - they'll happily leave themselves dangling in the breeze just to get a nade off.

We'll have a look at bolt-action possibilities after the next patch - in the next one, there'll just be the lever-actions as new toys - which I'll do after 1.08 is out.

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This mod looks fantastic, I will be trying it out after I finish my vanilla training wheels normal game. I just had a question perhaps you've already addressed it but what is the in-game and lore justification for having to research already existing guns in 1979? Why not just have the whole arsenal available from the get-go?

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This mod looks fantastic, I will be trying it out after I finish my vanilla training wheels normal game. I just had a question perhaps you've already addressed it but what is the in-game and lore justification for having to research already existing guns in 1979? Why not just have the whole arsenal available from the get-go?

There are researches available called Combat Performance Analysis. These replace the vanilla weapon progression techs - Laser Weapons is replace by Combat Performance: 1st Analysis, Plasma by 2nd Analysis, etc. The tech involves the scientists (who, quite conveniently, double up as military analysts) analysing recent ground combat missions and making recommendations for different/stronger weapons. They then take their findings to our global partners who supply them with weapons that are more powerful than the previous bunch. However, in these paranoid times, the suppliers are only willing to provide a slight increase in power each time, as they aren't convinced by the effectiveness of the 'nauts, or the competence of our analysts.

Believable, no? Ha. Anyhow, there's also a slight change in when these progression techs become available. I've linked them into certain autopsies - to get the techs, all the relevant vanilla techs need researching (ie plasma pistol, rifle, plasma technology for the laser tech) and a new alien, which makes our scientists realise we need mo' power. For laser, one needs androns - which means the androns have to be fought for a while (until the tech gets researched) with the first tier weapons. Secondly, it's harridans (was gonna be medium drones, but they don't reliably show up - I could change this at some point though), and lastly a wraith is needed for the final analysis/weapons grab.

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I don't think vanilla is too big. Remember it's not supposed to represent a physical backpack, but rather everything your soldier could carry - that includes thing slung over the shoulder, in pouches or on a harness.

And a soldier can carry a LOT of grenades

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I don't think vanilla is too big. Remember it's not supposed to represent a physical backpack, but rather everything your soldier could carry - that includes thing slung over the shoulder, in pouches or on a harness.

And a soldier can carry a LOT of grenades

It not so much the nades that bother me (even though they do!), but rather the amount of primary weapons. This, for me, kills diversity. For example, a vanilla soldier can carry:

- sniper rifle

- shotgun

- rocket launcher

- 11 nades

- 1 sniper ammo

- 1 shotgun ammo

I'd rather not have all those options, and have each role more specialised.

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I have been doing some testing of my own, and I can't seem to find a good spot for a sniper rifle. If it does too much damage then it encroaches on the AT rifles, but with lower damage the BRs just seem to be the better choice. I won't pretend to be the best at balance though, and there could be a issue with how i implemented the new weapons. At very long range, with weapon damage set to 70(one shot a turn) I hit for mid teens to high twenties in damage. I feel like they have a spot, but i can't find it.

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I have been doing some testing of my own, and I can't seem to find a good spot for a sniper rifle. If it does too much damage then it encroaches on the AT rifles, but with lower damage the BRs just seem to be the better choice. I won't pretend to be the best at balance though, and there could be a issue with how i implemented the new weapons. At very long range, with weapon damage set to 70(one shot a turn) I hit for mid teens to high twenties in damage. I feel like they have a spot, but i can't find it.

Thanks for taking a look - not to worry though, as I've come up with a good way to implement them. They'll actually be in the next version, the images haven't taken too long. Here's what I did...

The new bolt-actions have taken on the stats (or M'nauts slightly less accurate version) of the vanilla snipers (max two shots per turn), and the BR's are now more like the AR's. The bolts are the most accurate weapons, slightly more damaging than the BR's and with better mitigation, but nowhere near as punchy as the AT's. This could get confusing. Here's the stats:

6BMmeWg.png

The stat sheet is getting a bit big now - that image is cut and pasted from 3 different screenshots.

The bolts are third group down. They get the heavy move penalty, no short range bonus, and no damage scaling. The BR's are now an option for troops who can't handle the recoil of an AR - they do more damage per shot (and have mitigation), but can't get as many shots off per turn, and now have the same accuracy as AR's.

The bits in bold are the changes from the last version. There's a new BR, the AG M/42, and a slight re-jigging of the progression order (I revisited cartridge damage output, so it mirrors this better). The AR's have got a slight increase in burst accuracy, and the AT's are now strength limited (the accuracy used is the lower of either strength or accuracy).

The bolts are the Lee Enfield No. 4 (.303), Steyr SSG 69 (7.62mm NATO), Remington Model 700 (.375 H&H Magnum), and Winchester Model 70 (.458 Winchester Magnum).

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That looks really good, I think where I differed from you was that I upped the tu costs and made it a one shot per round, trying to go for that "one shot, one kill" motto.

I will say it was satisfying to have a sniper in the back and the scout/spotter looking for targets!

Now I just have to be patient and wait for the next release, but I want to thank you first. Your guide and mod as a reference is what taught me how to add in weapons of my own, and for that I'm very grateful.

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That looks really good, I think where I differed from you was that I upped the tu costs and made it a one shot per round, trying to go for that "one shot, one kill" motto.

I will say it was satisfying to have a sniper in the back and the scout/spotter looking for targets!

Now I just have to be patient and wait for the next release, but I want to thank you first. Your guide and mod as a reference is what taught me how to add in weapons of my own, and for that I'm very grateful.

Yeah, I didn't realise quite how much M'nauts was missing an outstandingly accurate weapon. They're a lot of fun to play with. I forgot to mention before, but when you were trying to make a new sniper, and it's damage wasn't holding at range, "disableDamageScaling="1"" is what was missing - this makes a weapon hold its damage at range (otherwise it drops off).

Thanks about the guide - that's why I wrote. Everyone has ideas, but not everyone knows how to implement them. Hopefully the guide can help with that - the more people that know how to make weapons, the higher the chances of cool new weapons appearing. Monkeys and typewriters.

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Yeah, I didn't realise quite how much M'nauts was missing an outstandingly accurate weapon. They're a lot of fun to play with. I forgot to mention before, but when you were trying to make a new sniper, and it's damage wasn't holding at range, "disableDamageScaling="1"" is what was missing - this makes a weapon hold its damage at range (otherwise it drops off).

Thanks about the guide - that's why I wrote. Everyone has ideas, but not everyone knows how to implement them. Hopefully the guide can help with that - the more people that know how to make weapons, the higher the chances of cool new weapons appearing. Monkeys and typewriters.

I just checked and I did have disableDamageScaling="1" in there, which is what was throwing me through a loop so badly. Honestly since i had just started playing around, i copied the base sniper/precision rifle and but that in, with stat modifications. I was modding using Magnum-nauts so I might have run up against something else.

I really enjoy the ability to add weapons to fit my tastes, but so far this mod works really well for me since i like the super specialized troops. At this point with levers and snipers being added, only two of the extra weapon classes I added for myself aren't official addons! Maybe I will play with grenade types...

I was wondering though if it is intentional that Sebillian and Reapers are the standard early game Xeno's? It isn't until maybe a month has gone by that I start to see Ceasans.

Final thing, if you want me to take the discussion elsewhere I would be glad to do so.

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I just checked and I did have disableDamageScaling="1" in there, which is what was throwing me through a loop so badly. Honestly since i had just started playing around, i copied the base sniper/precision rifle and but that in, with stat modifications. I was modding using Magnum-nauts so I might have run up against something else.

I really enjoy the ability to add weapons to fit my tastes, but so far this mod works really well for me since i like the super specialized troops. At this point with levers and snipers being added, only two of the extra weapon classes I added for myself aren't official addons! Maybe I will play with grenade types...

I was wondering though if it is intentional that Sebillian and Reapers are the standard early game Xeno's? It isn't until maybe a month has gone by that I start to see Ceasans.

Final thing, if you want me to take the discussion elsewhere I would be glad to do so.

Yeah, I think most weapon types are now covered. There is one exception that I can see - semi auto pistols. I didn't want to use them previously, as they would take away from the revolvers. However, I will probably add them in the future, and have the revolvers as more powerful but strength limited - more of a specialist weapon, and the semi auto as the standard sidearm (with the MP's being slightly more specialist due to their recoil). I did have another play around with grenade launchers recently (over-ruling the throwing animation so it looked like they were being shot in an arc), but there are too many factors working against it (biggest one is the GC ui, which treats anything grenade-like as single-shot).

It's random with the Sebs/Caesans. They both show up from the start, it's just a matter of luck really. The Sebs bring reapers along, which make them a bit tougher than the Caesans - I like it in GC, where during the first alien turn I get hit with a psi attack, I breathe a sigh of relief that I'm facing the Caesans.

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I added semi-auto pistols as a way to get more, but weaker shots than the revolver, but is a little more accurate than the machine pistols. I've been playing around with PDWs so they do less damage then the smgs to un armored troops, but punch through faster. I'm unsure if it's really a spot that needs filling though.

It doesn't look like a grenade but when the first smg had rocket type bullets it had a small aoe, perhaps that could work (maybe it fires a canister filled with flechettes).

Huh I guess I've been getting unlucky, those reapers tear me apart and I haven't found a strategy to reliably deal with them.

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That's a good way of modeling semi-auto's. PDW's are a bit modern, but there are a few examples of them pre-1980. They would stray into smg territory though, which is why I did semi-auto carbines instead of burst/full auto carbines/pdw's.

Speaking of the carbines, they've had a looking at too, as the jungle carbine has had to go - currently, it's the top damaging carbine, firing the .303. But with the new bolts, the first one is also an enfield, firing the .303, so it would look at a bit off if the same cartridge was being used as the top performer in one category and the worst in another (the damage variance was too extreme...one has to do ~30, and the other ~60). In fact we're getting two new carbines (as the ruger is going too): the Jap type 44, and the Mosin-Nagant Model 44. In general, the carbines are getting a bit of love - although they're getting less shots (3 down from 5), they're going to be able to use them shots better, firing two aimed shots per turn (all the other weapons can only fire one aimed per turn). It suits their mobility more, plus they are a little too weak at the moment. Their new TU/accuracy is: 28/40, 35/60, and 45/85. Comparing it to AR's, the snapshot is the same, but the normal shot is 5TU% less, and the aimed is 10TU% less.

I've developed a bit of a strategy to make the reapers less scary. When I know I'm facing them early-game (i.e. if during the first alien turn, there aren't any psi attacks), I do a tactical camp. Form a defensive perimeter, and use their aggression against them. Got to be tight though, as the Sebs soon follow them in - at which point I try and push out (but leaving the majority stationary for reaction fire) and close the gap.

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To be honest it's just a strange habit of mine, where I like to have a equal amount of options in each category. I actually moved the carbine to rifles since I didn't use them to breach, they were my fast but weak scouts. I shifted the AT to heavy because of the lower accuracy but high power. The stun/melee weapons round out the side arms.

A PDW was the only thing I could really think of to put in to bump breaching to 4 choices.

There is no hate for how you ordered the weapons, it's just one of my strange habits, plus learning how to add weapons makes me want to do it! Sad to see the ruger go since I've actually fired that, but the Nagant makes up for that. Those changes sound like they'll give the carbine a stronger role.

Thanks for the strategy! I'll be sure to try it out when I play.

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Yeah, at the moment the carbines are a bit unrefined. They fill the role of mini assault rifle quite well, but I was never particularly happy with how I worked the shot-costs. I tried to make them mirror AR's too much, by giving them five shots (the only way the AR can achieve 5 is by burst fire anyway, which the carbines don't have). So, I found myself not using them much at all. Now, I'm using them a lot more. Shotguns are also now strength limited, which makes the carbines the go-to weapon of the breachers, as it has no penalties. Although the strength thing on shotguns is more of a token gesture, as not much accuracy is required when firing from point blank range.

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In my opinion, you should add another category for pre-1870 weapons, it would include stuff like the Colt Walker, Springfield 1861, Henry repeater etc.

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In my opinion, you should add another category for pre-1870 weapons, it would include stuff like the Colt Walker, Springfield 1861, Henry repeater etc.

It's a cool idea, but I struggle to see where they'd fit in - black powder weapons are much less powerful than smokeless cartridges.

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I have to say again, how much I love this mod!

I didn't really read this thread much, so if im repeating something please excuse me.

(Consider this user constructive feedback)

About SMG's

- The Thompson "SMG" causes allot of "self inflicted harm" while shooting out of windows (FYI - the Suomi not so much)

I mostly get these on grunts, so I assume its due to low aiming? But even the worst "spray and pray" soldier wont shoot straight through a window without breaking it first...

So I was wondering if this can even be addressed?

To be clear im talking about sitting in front of a window inside a house/store/bus station (so the tiles touch).

- I kind of think the SMG's need to be nerfed down abit. (Altho I also enjoy them the way they are now, and think they are realistically portrayed)

Atm all you really need is the Thompson/Soumi and a few nades (maybe Jackal armor) and you can deal with most encounters...

They really out perform the Shotguns as they can shoot more and have a higher % of suppression (didn't look at the numbers, but thats how it feels) and they take fewer TUS to acctivate, so a decent soldier can easily move a few steps and still fire 3 volleys... Usually that's enough even for the Androns...

Or maybe im misusing the shotguns?

(Can you take out an Andron with a shotgun?)

At long range spray and pray works almost as good as a rifle (the true sniper rifles wont stand out due to the small maps anyway) because the combination of: the % to hit from a spray and pray, the suppression and the cover destruction make for a lethal combination.

About the Alien flamethrower (?)

Not even sure if this weapon was in vanilla?

But they seem to be useless... I have twice by now had soldiers survive a whole "blast" while wearing only jackal.

The aliens only seem to be using this effectively during base defense missions, when they just go around BBQ all your expensive lab equipment...

Did you modify alien weaponry?

Are you planing to?

Early on, they seem to be underwhelming...

Also the local forces weapons, They seem to still have the vanilla weapons, perhaps you would like to change that?

Im saying this because,

Im really trigger happy with my rockets and flamethrowers... and i end up looting what I can and its somewhat odd to run into vanilla weapons...

Keep up the good work!

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Is it the Thomson that is doing that. or the first SMG( the A180)? I know that the a180 had the splash issue not to long ago, and I believe that the current download fixes that issue. It was actually set to fire tiny rockets which caused splash from adjacent cover, which also gave it more power I think.

All the other stuff I have no clue, but the alien flame thrower should be doing 200 incendiary damage base.

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