[v1.09] Magnum-nauts

[Mikhail Ragulin]

Update news:

There's a new version on the way soon. Here's a quick rundown of what it contains...

Some new weaponry; a line of automatic rifles, a new addition to the explosives category (M202), a couple of replacement machine pistols (replacing the Trejo and VP70), and fully functioning grenade launchers:

The auto rifles are like bigger versions of the assault rifle (more power, but higher recoil). The M202 is a multi-shot incendiary rocket launcher, capable of burst fire. The MP's are in for their bigger magazine sizes (MP's have had a little buff in general). The Type 10 is a grenade discharger that can lob frag and tear gas grenades further than the eye can see (which in game terms, isn't excessive).

Another change is inventory sizes. The vanilla size backpack and belt is back, due to their being more small stuff that can fit in them (the last version saw the inclusion of a big anti tank grenade, and the new Type 10's also fits in there). Some items will fill the backpack, however, namely the medikits and M9A1-7 ammo - and primary weapons don't fit in.

[Lerzan]

Look's pretty awesome to me, though i had to look up the type tens to figure out exactly how they worked(Now i get that they are muzzle loaded). While the 5 round burst seemed strong, later on it balanced out pretty well. The random kills have gone down a fair amount, but then again the deaths I do get can be attributed to "That's Xenonauts, baby"!

[Mikhail Ragulin]

Yeah, sound tactics aren't randomly/annoyingly punished as much now.

There's some more info I missed out from the update news. There's a new one-handed shotgun, the Ithaca Auto & Burglar:

So as not to have it ridiculously overpowered, it's a stun weapon - firing rubber buckshot (range is only 5). Gets unlocked with the shock weapon research.

The AT rifles are a bit more useful too. Since I took the reaction fire off them, they've been a bit wanting. I've swapped them over to incendiary damage. Which doesn't mean they set stuff on fire, but means that they are really good at destroying walls/terrain/etc (as the incendiary damage type does 4x the amount of damage to terrain). This reflects how they ended up being used in urban combat - knocking ruddy great holes in walls. And they're damn good at blowing up vehicles...lots of fun when Jonny Sebillian takes a knee behind one.

UFO contents has had a massive rework, so that the progression in UFO's match up with the aliens inside of them. There are more of the previously neglected alien types - wraiths, medium and heavy drones, harridans - and they come earlier too. Andron guards appear in scouts now (along with Caesan and Sebillian guards - just Caesan and Seb noncoms in light scouts). Corvettes and landingships contain the soldier rank (so too small alien bases), cruiser and carrier get the warrior class (as with medium bases), and battleships contain elites (along with large bases).

[Lerzan]

That is a neat idea. Maybe have something like it but more lethal with a range of one or two as a back up weapon in case a alien gets a little too close to the long range units? (Shameless idea from xcom long war mod). I just wish there was a reason to capture the aliens after the first one. Like a live alien is worth money at the end of a mission. More risk/reward sort of thing.

The changes to the AT rifles sound like a lot of fun plus gives more strategic options. As always I can't wait to play with the new changes!

Is the ufo change aimed as a difficulty increase then?

[Mikhail Ragulin]

The MP's can fill that close range role now - they can fire up to 4 times per turn. They're still inaccurate, but that extra burst means that they can get the job done at point blank range. That was actually part of the reasoning behind reverting the inventory sizes, to bring sidearms into the game more - they're now worth pulling out if there's an alien in close proximity and the primary is out of ammo (it's cheaper than reloading, and they cost less TU's to fire).

Funnily enough, corpses/live aliens are now worth money too. I'd originally done it because I had it so that certain armours require certain corpses (for example, jackal needed 3 Seb noncom corpses), but it wasn't as smooth as I would have liked. But the offset of that was that I left the corpses with a value (1000), and live aliens are worth double. Also an incentive not to torch everything with the flamethrowers and new explosives. But yeah, finding a reason to capture more live aliens is needed...maybe making them part of the combat analyses? The scientists could produce a live alien to the funders, and scare them into giving bigger guns...

Yes and no, in regards to the UFO contents. I wanted to get more variety in aliens (like the bigger drones, and wraiths). The main thing was Androns, they weren't being as scary as they should. I reckon that this was because when they first started showing up, they weren't much different from the other aliens (in corvettes, Caesan and Seb guards/soldiers). So, the Andron guards come one step earlier, along with the other Caesan and Seb guards. And then where Androns guards used to appear, it's now the soldier class, who are definitely scarier. So it's certainly different...and probably a little bit harder. Although it's a good way of making sure all the weapon classes are always needed (there's not much need for weapons with mitigation fighting against Sebs and Caesans). I've done a fancy table that explains things a bit clearer, which I'll post when the next version is released.

[Lerzan]

Ah, you do make a good point with the MPs. I'm used to carrying a revolver if a side arm at all.

The only issue I could see with it currently is it would promote gassing all the things for the extra money. While I like the gas grenades, they are a little too effective when used in mass.

That makes sense, the androns resonated with me because when they showed up I was just kinda unimpressed at that point.

[Mikhail Ragulin]

It's more of a flavour thing, with the live aliens...the money doesn't really increase (they're worth 2000, which is much less than the weapons the aliens carry) as I set plasma batteries to less value (to counteract a vanilla bug where some missions result in plasma battery spam), so it'd be hard to abuse it.

Speaking of live aliens, I've implemented the need for a captured alien to get the combat performance analyses, as mentioned a post or two back. Works well. Just had to subdue a particularly virile Sebillian soldier with only suppression and a truncheon. It was the longest (and most nerve-wracking) mission I've done in ages. The first corvette to show up was Androns, so I immediately aborted the mission. I then shot down another corvette, and it was Sebs, so it became a capture-the-bugger mission. At this stage (just before 1st analysis research) it's pretty hard to capture them, as tear gas/cattle prod/type 10 tear gas (the old electroshock grenade entry) isn't unlocked until alien electronics is researched...which comes with a corvette datacore. But, it's hard to do a corvette mission without the 1st combat analysis...and to get the analysis, a live soldier class is required...who live in corvettes. Nasty catch-22. I contemplated a hit and run, stunning a Seb and dragging her back to the ship, but it was one of the zerg rush mission sets, so they kept coming at me. Damn good fun.

To get the analyses, one needs a live Caesan, Harridan, Seb, or Wraith: soldier for the first (found in corvettes, landingships, and small bases), warrior for the 2nd (from cruisers, carriers, and medium bases), and elite (battleships and large bases) for the last. Which makes the difficulty kick up all of a sudden, which is nice. I've been airstriking everything until the research was done...be nasty if I HAD to do a mission, like a terror site or base defense.

[Lerzan]

Fair enough, and I hope the bug doesn't happen anyways because I haven't figured out a way other than save scumming the mission to get rid of the extra cash. I guess maybe a couple grand more (if that depending on numbers) won't unbalance the game anyway.

See with that story you're just teasing me with the new system (along with the weapons)! There is something satisfying about a high TU guy with a club and a med kit with a belt of flashbangs beating the hell out of a alien. This *smack* was for the rookie whose name *smack* I forgot already. *smack smack*.

Waiting For the new release!

[TheD3rp]

Are you intending to add semi-auto carbines at some point?

[WhiteDingo]

Hey Mikhail, quick question, did you reduce the effectiveness of Body Armor in this? Or widen the range of damage? Because I've noticed times when my troops in Jackal Armor were brought down to a third of their health by two shots from plasma pistols. I'm not complaining, the mod has been loads of fun.

Endgame wise, I came up with a strategy of having an almost 50/50 split in load-out between 6 guys with Battle Rifles/Revolvers in their backpacks, and 5 guys with Assault Rifles serving as medics. The 1 guy in Predator armor usually had the last endgame Heavy Machinegun. Sniper Rifles were...Tricky, to say the least-Good in Desert/Arctic maps but not as effective in Urban/Farm maps (Curse you hedgerows!) By the time I got the Alien Leader Interrogation done, the squad's accuracy was high enough that they could fire their Battle Rifles and get consistent hits even when the target was in the yellow range of said weapon.

By far, this has been my favorite mod to play so far

Edited August 26, 2014 by WhiteDingo

[Lerzan]

Are you intending to add semi-auto carbines at some point?

The bolt-action carbines are semi-auto(located in the breaching weapons) in game, since you can't take a action to chamber a round. Was there a different weapon type you meant?

[Mikhail Ragulin]

Are you intending to add semi-auto carbines at some point?

Probably not (but then again, maybe) - in earlier versions, there was a mix between semi auto and bolt. I wanted one or the other (all semi or all bolt), and there was far more variety in calibres in the bolts. I could only find 3 semis (mini 14, m1, and sks) of varying power, which was a shame, as that's one short, which is why I went for bolts. I'm pretty sure I found another variant recently, can't remember what though. I can picture how they'd be...3 shots per turn perhaps, slightly less accurate than the bolts...

Hey Mikhail, quick question, did you reduce the effectiveness of Body Armor in this? Or widen the range of damage? Because I've noticed times when my troops in Jackal Armor were brought down to a third of their health by two shots from plasma pistols. I'm not complaining, the mod has been loads of fun.

Endgame wise, I came up with a strategy of having an almost 50/50 split in load-out between 6 guys with Battle Rifles/Revolvers in their backpacks, and 5 guys with Assault Rifles serving as medics. The 1 guy in Predator armor usually had the last endgame Heavy Machinegun. Sniper Rifles were...Tricky, to say the least-Good in Desert/Arctic maps but not as effective in Urban/Farm maps (Curse you hedgerows!) By the time I got the Alien Leader Interrogation done, the squad's accuracy was high enough that they could fire their Battle Rifles and get consistent hits even when the target was in the yellow range of said weapon.

By far, this has been my favorite mod to play so far

Nah, all armours are the same. It could actually be alien accuracy that makes it seem that way (they're accuracy was untouched, which meant it's a bit too good compared to the reduced M'nauts weapons). I've re-jigged the alien accuracy a bit for the next version anyway, to bring it more in line with the human weapons, so annoying/unfair stuff isn't quite as annoying/unfair seeming.

The semi auto rifles are usually my least used weapon - and then when I do use them, it dawns on me that I should be using them more. They're nasty when given to troops with high accuracy. I don't tend to use them until I either get the shrike, at which point I add a corpsman to the crew, who gets a semi auto and a medpack (takes the strain off my solitary medic with his machine pistol), or if my designated riflemen have crap strength and can't handle the recoil of AR's.

In other news, the next version is nearly ready. I'm starting packing it up at the moment, and it should be available by this time tomorrow. There's all kinds of goodies that have been mentioned in the last page or two (auto rifles, grenade launcher/dischargers, capture live aliens for the combat analyses, huge UFO contents re-work). Along with the UFO re-work is pacing changes - for example, there's more of a definitive timescale on each set of weapons. The performance analyses come about every 3 months or so (250 ticker points, plus research time - which makes the game last at the very least 9 months, usually a fair bit longer due to having to get enough resources for the top armours/planes), so there's plenty of chance to play with each set of weapons.

[Lerzan]

Probably not (but then again, maybe) - in earlier versions, there was a mix between semi auto and bolt. I wanted one or the other (all semi or all bolt), and there was far more variety in calibres in the bolts. I could only find 3 semis (mini 14, m1, and sks)

I know it's fudging on the timeline a tiny bit with the first one (1982) but what about the M4, CAR-15, and (maybe) the AKS-74U?

[Mikhail Ragulin]

We'd be into selective/full auto fire territory with those puppies. Which is maybe something for the future.

[Mikhail Ragulin]

Right then sausages, I've uploaded the new version, download link is in the first post. It's being hosted only by the forum download service this time (last time it was dropbox too). I'll slowly update the first post with all the relevant details/new stuff over the next day or so.

In the meantime, here's the weapon stats for this version:

They're pretty much the same as last time (a few minor alterations), just with the new weapons in there. Changes are in bold (if it's visible).

[Lerzan]

Looking at the numbers from the post above and the table from the last version, you buffed the damage of SMGs and nerfed carbines in the new version? Maybe I mixed the two up, but i checked a couple times and it seems like that's what happened. If it isn't a clerical error how come you chose to do that?

[Mikhail Ragulin]

Almost - they both got a slight buff. Stats is stats though, and can be misleading (I prefer judging them by how they play in-game). Full rundown:

SMGs: reduction in recoil (60 -> 55) and increase in damage (~25%, if my maths is right). I'd overnerfed them in a previous version, and couldn't get enough kills with them. Idea is that they're meant to be as good as the shotguns, but with more range - with the downside of recoil. Like the weapon that the shotgun troops graduate to, if they live long enough to get the strength. Although even with these changes, I still don't get the same kills as I do with a shotgun, but they are a little bit better at suppression. PPSh-41 and Tommy were both switched to the drum version to bring them in line with the others.

Carbines: increase in power and mitigation (~20%), and changes to TU cost (now only fired twice per turn, but aimed and normal shots are a bit cheaper...more pop and shoot). Was odd having bolt-actions that can fire the same amount per turn as semi autos (rifles). They use pretty much the same cartridges as the new automatics, and so have the same damage model.

AR's: -5TU% for burst, now costs the same as aimed. Increases their mobility, helps to differentiate from the new autos.

Automatics: new line. Higher recoil than AR's, but more damaging & better suppression. Burst costs 70%, so it's hard to use offensively (unlike the AR's).

LMGs: reaction modifier dropped to 0.5 (from 1). Brings them in line with the GPMGs, also reduces their run-and-gun power. Recoil reduction as well (down 5 to 65, GPMG is 70) to represent the smaller cartridges. Damage up 25% (like the SMGs, they'd been overnerfed previously in that department).

AT's: now under the heavy tab. And do more terrain damage (due to different damage type). Mauser 1918 switched to the 5 shot magazine model (from single shot).

Heavy: introduction of M202 in final weapon tier. Both the Handflamm and Einstoss (the disposable/backpack launchers) are unlocked in the third tier now. New disposable Type 10 Grenade Dischargers appeared (firing timed grenades).

Sidearms: Model 29s reaction down to 1 (from 1.75), so it's not a direct replacement for the 29. MP's damage went down slightly, but got an extra burst per turn (they were pretty crap before hand, but useable now).Two new MPs with higher capacities (the Stechkin and the Schnellfeuer) replace the Trejo and VP70.

And also generic versions of ammo added (ie shotgun ammo, AR ammo) as the weapons now replace each other in the loadouts when researched (but won't work that way for ammo, hence the change - it simplifies things). They're all in pouches/molles/cans though, looks neat.

[Lerzan]

Ah ok, I was looking more at the raw damage possible than anything else but that clears it up.

Enjoying it so far, though there seems to be a definite spike in difficulty with androns showing up so early. Need focus fire or a heavy mitigation weapon on hand (looking at you lever action...).The new ATs are a lot if fun for a more tactical cover change, which can open sniper lanes. I didn't get to it until 2 am so priming the type tens took a bit to figure out. Hopefully the kids won't play with the unexplored metal eggs I left everywhere...

[Mikhail Ragulin]

Yeah, the earlier androns ensures varied loadouts. Although I did actually pick up my first andron flamethrower kill recently (albeit against one that was virtually dead).

[TheD3rp]

You should put the 2.7mm Kolibri in as an easter-egg.

Also so I can say this:

"I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking "did he fire six shots or only five?" Now to tell you the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this is a 2.7mm Kolibri, the least powerful handgun in the world and will dent your skin clean in, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel itchy?" Well, do ya, punk?"

[Mikhail Ragulin]

You should put the 2.7mm Kolibri in as an easter-egg.

Also so I can say this:

"I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking "did he fire six shots or only five?" Now to tell you the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this is a 2.7mm Kolibri, the least powerful handgun in the world and will dent your skin clean in, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel itchy?" Well, do ya, punk?"

A mighty 4J of muzzle energy. I'm not sure, but I think more damage would be done by throwing the gun instead of shooting it.

Update news:

The next update is mainly focused on armours. There's one or two weapon stat changes, and a few new weapons (replacing some current ones). Probably be done for next weekend.

The big thing is powered armour. Currently, there's just the predator, which is a bit of a game breaker, as it's so good (a vanilla hangover, as I haven't yet modified the armours) - cheap TU cost for weapons and no heavy weapons move penalty are the main culprits. That's changing. There's a new powered armour, like an early version of predator. I'm using senitinel armour for this. Currently, sentinel (like predator) is a game breaker - 360 degree vision, and a jet pack. Here's a quick summary:

Sentinel:

- reduced stats (taking on the buzzard armour values, ~35 resistance), no jet pack

- earlier unlock (after jackal and andron disassembly)

- 100 strength

- big guns only, as it's a powered armour

- 50% suppression reduction (as it's enclosed/helmeted, therefore reducing awareness)

- reduced sight range and cone of vision (down to 12 tiles and 30 degrees)

- suffers heavy move penalty

This makes it an early "tank suit". Powerful, but needs troops nearby or it's vulnerable.

Predator:

- no weapons TU reduction

- no heavy move penalty

- 100 strength

- big guns only

- reduced sight range and cone (15 tiles and 45 degrees)

- 75% suppression reduction

The big daddy version of the new sentinel. Unlocked at same time as it is in vanilla. The reduced vision means these powered armours are powerful, as oppose to overpowered.

Buzzard is now the only flying armour, and gets unlocked where sentinel used too - it's an end game armour now, as flight is a huge advantage. Keeps it's current armour stats though, so there's an element of risk to using it. Wolf gets a slight stat increase (and costs) from 45 to 50.

"Big guns" are now just GPMGs and AT rifles, both have 100 recoil - therefore pretty much unusable without the powered armour (hence the need for an early-mid game powered armour, the new sentinel). This represents that issue that these guns can't really be fired from the shoulder (or even hip) in RL, unlike all our other weapons. That's what the powered armours overcome - it allows troops to use these weapons without adopting the prone position (so it's a bit of a nod towards realism). The GPMGs and ATs are always my top killers, and this is a nice way to keep them as not only powerful, but kind of unabuseable (the powered armours are expensive and slow to make, but worth having none the less).

[drages]

This is most amazing work as a mod i can say... your excel sheets about the game are... wow..

Adding so many weapons by yourself.. i cant imagine how much time u spend..

but what happened? there is silence for 4 month..

[Lerzan]

Anyone know what happened? It was my favorite mod but it's gone silent now.

[Max_Caine]

Well, if the mod owner has gone onto Better Things then naturally the mod won't be updated.

[RudBoy1018]

Game crashes when I click on the Equipment button in the Soldier Equipment Select Interface. X:CE is the only other Mod I have installed.