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[v1.09] Magnum-nauts

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Mikhail Ragulin, the owner of this mod and creator of this thread has not been seen since 2014. He is not around to ask for new things, or for fixes to the mod.


Download & Installation

Click here to download. (latest version added 27th August - main changes are new auto rifles, and normal inventory/backpack sizes. Saves from previous versions probably aren't compatible, so best to start a new game)

Make a clean copy of Xenonauts 1.09. This hasn’t been built on the community patch. Never install into the steam folder – it causes problems for mods and the base game.

Download the file from the link above. Extract the download. Move/copy the extracted folder ("assets") into the copy of Xenonauts. Done.

Beginners installation guide:

Steams users:

Locate the Xenonauts folder, which is within the steam folder.

- Open file explorer, double click the main hard drive - it will most likely be C:

- Open program files (xxx) by double-clicking. For example, on my system, it is program files (x86). On yours, it might be (x64), or maybe just program files. If there’s one with a number after it (the number denotes the operating system, but this is not important), and one without (e.g. “program files” and “program files (x86)), open the numbered one

- Open the Steam folder

- Open SteamApps

- Open common

- Right click on Xenonauts, and choose “copy”

Find a home for the copied version.

- Open the main hard drive

- Right-click in an empty part of the window

- Choose “new > folder”

- New folder creates itself, called “new folder”

- Click on the name of it, and then shortly after click on it again – this allows for the name to be changed (the words should be highlighted)

- Rename it, for example, “mods”

- Open it

- Right-click in an empty space

- Select “paste”

When it has pasted, open up another file explorer and find the M’nauts download. This should be in “downloads”.

- Right click Magnumnauts.rar

- Choose copy

- Go to the other open window, where the new copy of Xeno is

- Right-click an empty space in the window

- Select “paste”

- Right-click the newly pasted Magnumnauts.rar, and select “extract here”

- Open the newly extracted folder, and copy "assets"

- Open the copy of Xenonauts, and paste "assets" into the folder. Confirm that files are to be overwritten, and you're good to go.

^^^ Click the spoiler button

What is Magnum-nauts?

Magnum-nauts is a weapons replacement mod for Xenonauts. The concept is that the Magnum-nauts have to fight the alien threat by using only ballistic weapons - no more lasers, plasmas, or MAGs, for the ground troops, as we cannot yet harness that technology into portable infantry weapons, (we can only manage bulky lasers etc., which means they can only be vehicle-based). There is more weapon variety in M'nauts (~15 compared to 5 in vanilla), which gives a bit of a different experience.

But why's it called Magnum-nauts? What's that all about? Well...it's because we get our combat revolvers from Smith & Wesson, makers of a variety of magnum calibre weapons, punk. The most famous of which, popularised by Dirty Harry, is the Model 29 .44 Magnum, which, you guessed it, is in this mod. Not once, but twice.

The Magnum-nauts use weapons that are donated by the funding countries. However, in the paranoid times of the cold war, there is not only a deep mistrust between east and west, but also a scepticism surrounding the Xenonauts project. The result of this is countries are unwilling to part with their most modern weapons, and the Magnum-nauts have to make use of what they have been given. However, sometimes a country will give up its recent weapons, perhaps in a show of strength to other nations. In order to progress to more powerful weapons, the scientists perform combat performance analyses when new aliens are encountered (or, more specifically...captured!). These live alien specimens are presented before the backers, who then see the need to part with better weaponry.

The analyses become available for research whenever new ranks of aliens appear (from corvettes onwards). This happens every 2 1/2 to 3 months, giving each weapon tier plenty of time to be experienced. there is only one weapon per class per tier, so hopefully there's no weapon redundancy/confusing choices. The total game time is therefore at least ten months (mine usually last just over a year).

The weapons are divided into four classes: breaching, rifles, heavy, and sidearms. Breaching contains shotguns, SMGs, carbines, and lever-actions. Rifles has assault rifles, automatic rifles, semi automatic rifles, and bolt-action rifles. heavy has LMGs, GPMGs, anti-tank rifles, and explosives (flamethrowers, rockets, etc.). Sidearms contains revolvers and machine pistols. There are also a few stun and melee weapons to boot.

- Breaching – shotguns, smgs, carbines, and lever-actions


- Rifles – assault, automatic, semi automatic, and bolt-action


- Heavy – lmgs, gpmgs, anti-tank, and explosives



- Sidearms – revolvers and machine pistols


Geoscape Changes

The main geoscape feature is the reduction in resources from UFO’s. Ones that have been shot down yield virtually no resources – the big payoff comes from landed UFO’s. More UFO’s will land in M’nauts compared to vanilla, so don’t worry about that – however, one may find him or herself having to perform more night missions, as landed UFO’s are best engaged as soon as possible, before they can fly off. There is a slight increase in night sight range, so they’re not as impossibly hard as vanilla – but they’re still tricky. Here’s a comparison of resources from UFO’s:


The implications of these changes? Well, the trick is not to shoot down UFO's - at least not immediately. Watch them for a while, and if they land, send in the troops. If it looks like they're not going to land, then blow them away. Crashed UFO's provide easier, training-style missions. Alien materials are therefore harder to come by - and more is need for various manufacturing projects:


The table shows that the bulk of alloys are needed for advanced aircraft. Advanced armours also need more, but Wolf armour needs slightly less. Therefore, it is viable to operate more than one strike team, as the second team is no longer a resource-hog.

Other geoscape changes include: revised dropship capacities (10, 11, & 12), changes to the research tree (certain autopsies are needed before better weapons can be procured), manufacturing times and cost for armours (to compensate for free weapons), and reduced airstrike winnings. There is another big one: terror missions. They’re active from the start in M’nauts, so don’t be surprised if one is fighting a lot of them early on – this makes air coverage more important. Another effect is it's easier to get good relations with funding blocs due to successfully defeating terror missions - however, this can, of course, work the other way. The soldiers stats now pull from a higher spread (30-70, vanilla is 35-65), producing a larger variety of stats in available troops (this helps with role specialisation, as troops will generally be pretty good at something, and poor at other things).

Also, don't leave bases unattended or without defenses - get them protected ASAP. Base attacks begin earlier in M'nauts.

Ground Combat

- Full re-work of the UFO contents - tougher enemies appear earlier, and the scripts have been mixed up (sometimes they rush, sometimes it's like hide and seek - be prepared, pilgrim)

- Aliens have grenades, so be careful with troop placement

- More variety in ground missions. This is due to a number of changes: power core explosions (meaning crashed UFO’s are not as challenging, and also not as rewarding...some of the time), aggressive aliens/AI on certain mission types (which forces the player onto the defensive in some situations), and a neat little trick involving smaller UFO’s (but I’ll leave that as a surprise)

- One primary weapon per soldier, punk. Primaries don't fit in the backpack. All sidearms do though (along with the disposable explosive launchers - the Type 10's, Handflammpatrone, and Einstossflammenwerfer)

- The new classes of weapons each have their own individual sprite - for example carbines use MAG carbine, and lmg's use scatter laser - this makes it easier to distinguish which soldier is using which, at a glance. It adds a bit more visual variety than them all using the ballistic sprites

- Local forces tend to have some quite interesting weapons - handy for when one is low on ammo

- Remember to equip the soldiers before the first battle, as they start with no kit assigned.

Know your enemy

In order to progress to better weapons, certain aliens need capturing. For the first combat analysis, a soldier rank alien needs to be captured (these appear in corvettes, landingships, and small bases). For the second, a warrior class (from cruisers, carriers, and medium bases). And for the third, an elite class (from battleships and large bases). Confused as to what they look like? Hold on there, soldier, we're coming to that.

When these new classes arrive on the battlefield, it can be quite tricky. A good tactic is to raid a new UFO. For example, when corvettes start to appear, it can be best to shoot one down (instead of trying to assault a landed one, with all it's juicy bounty...and extra aliens) and effectively "kidnap" an alien, hit-and-run style. Gas/stun him, get him in the backpack, and retreat to the dropship. Let the research department perform the combat analysis, and get the new weapons before taking on more of the new ranks that are appearing in larger UFOs.

So, live aliens are needed - which rules out Androns, as they can't be captured. Therefore, one has to stun the relevant rank of either a Caesan, Harridan, Sebillian, or Wraith (or even a Reaper Alpha or Praetor for the final analysis). Here's what various alien rank look like - the ones that need capturing alive for the combat analyses are (mostly) on the bottom rows:






And here's some friendly Androns, too:


Here's a bit more info on when various ships/aliens appear (100 ticker points is ~ 1 month):


UI Features

-Improved barracks screen. Makes it easier to see all the troops at once


-This movement is hidden, punk


-Improved equip screen, with larger windows on the right and bottom left, and larger assignment button (picture shows old inventory sizes - they've now reverted to normal size)


-Mission and kill count in the GC equip window. The kills update during the missions (picture shows old inventory sizes - they've now reverted to normal size)


Weapons Stats

A comparison between weapons. The final column provides a power comparison with vanilla. Our weapons aren’t as powerful, as I find mid-to-late vanilla weapons a bit overpowered. As a comparison, vanilla MAG weapons are all roughly 3.5x more powerful than the starting weapons; in M'nauts, the top tier is 2x as powerful as the starting tier. This way, the game offers a different challenge. The ammo counts and weights are the official ones of the guns in real life - the damage is obviously abstracted to fit the game progression. The progression was chosen by calibre, muzzle velocity, and projectile energy - the higher these are, the more damage is done. Right-clicking on these tables and selecting view image makes them easier to read (and zoom in).


That table should be easy to interpret, but here’s a breakdown of weapon penalties (which can be tricky to fathom at first):

- recoil - depends on strength. If the soldier has strength less than that of the recoil value, the difference is subtracted from his accuracy. For example, a trooper who has 45 strength is using an assault rifle - in this case, that would mean 5 points deducted from the accuracy (as the weapon has a recoil value of 50, and the strength of the soldier is 5 points below that)

- limited - strength limited. This means that the weapon uses the lower of either strength or accuracy (of the soldier) as the accuracy for a shot. For example, if a soldier has 60 strength and 70 accuracy, then the accuracy will be 60.

- is heavy - the heavy weapons penalty. If the soldier moves in the same turn before firing the weapon, it incurs the heavy weapon penalty, which is 66%.

- no short - short range bonus disabled. The weapon doesn't get the proximity bonus which usually occurs within a distance of 5 tiles.

- no scale - damage scaling disabled. Not really a penalty, as in fact it's a bonus! This means the weapon continues to hold it's damage beyond it's effective range, instead of suffering damage drop-off.

Here's another table showing vanilla stats - accuracy, TU cost, damage etc.


And another, showing the stats/weapons from the previous version of M'nauts, so one can see how things have changed:


Weapon Analysis

Breaching: close range, 50% reaction bonus. Troops need high TU, health, and reflexes.

- Shotguns – all have 9 pellets, which is the amount generally found in military 12ga. More pellets increases their reliability, and allows them to perform (to a degree) out to the edge of their range (even one or two pellets will still hit at max range, for some damage). At point blank and very short ranges, they reliably get the job done. They have the shortest range of all the primary weapons. Shotguns can fire 3 times per turn (apart from the 870, the pump-action). They are also strength limited; however, this is not a problem when used at their intended range (up close and personal).

- SMG’s – very similar damage output to shotguns, but with extra range. The downside is recoil it takes a well-trained soldier to make use of the extra range. SMG’s are best given to troops who have strength and accuracy above 60, so they can make the most of them – raw recruits should steer clear of these. They lack the brute suppression and damage of the larger MG’s, but make up for it with mobility (low weight) and the reaction bonus. All SMG’s can fire 3 bursts (of 5 bullets) per turn.

- Carbines – close quarters accuracy. Joint largest range of the breaching weapons, and best accuracy. Ideal for breaching troops who have high accuracy, but low strength. The advantage over assault rifles is the reaction bonus, but they are hampered by a lower range. Carbines are the only weapon that can perform 2 aimed shots per turn. The only breaching weapon with no penalties, so a good choice for rookies.

- Lever-actions - massive calibres. Limited to one shot per turn due to their huge kick. Adept at dropping all manner of large game, these small rifles allow devastating mobile firepower - but only in for the right soldier. Best given to assault troops who have strength and accuracy of over 70 as they are strength limited - therefore, veterans only.

Rifles: close-to-long range, Troops need good accuracy.

- AR’s – the most versatile of the rifles. A combination of the accuracy of rifles and the ROF of smg's. Their intermediate cartridges (between smg and rifle size) means they lack the force of other rifles, but this is countered by their smg-like close range abilities. Able to pop off six shots per turn (including a 5 round burst). Troops need strength above 50 to negate the recoil.

- Semi-auto's – higher damage per shot than the AR’s coupled with armour mitigation, but slower to fire. They also lack the close range bonus, making them better suited to range work. Good for rookies who don't have the required strength to use an AR. Capable of three shots per turn.

- Bolt-action's – higher damage per shot than the AR’s and semi's, coupled with armour mitigation, but again slower to fire. They also lack the close range bonus, making them better suited to range work, and also suffer from the heavy weapon move penalty. The most accurate and longest ranged weapons in the arsenal, they can manage two shots per turn. Troops need high accuracy in order to exploit the benefits of the bolt-actions.

- AT’s – slow to fire, but hard-hitting. Designed to fire at massive armoured targets, and therefore they lack the accuracy of the other rifles. However, they can deliver the biggest damage per shot of all the weapons. They suffer from the heavy weapons move penalty (66% accuracy reduction) if the user moves before firing in the same turn. They also do not get the short range hit bonus. AT’s cannot perform reaction fire, and are also strength limited. Therefore, troops need high strength and accuracy.

Heavy: all ranges, and heavy weapons move penalty (66%).

- LMG’s – versatile firepower and suppression. Best given to troops with high strength and accuracy (to counter the recoil), and high health – as the lack of accuracy makes the LMG’s a close range weapon. They can shoot two bursts (of five bullets) per turn. However, due to the move penalty, they are best used to fire and move, or fire twice, as moving and then firing incurs the accuracy penalty.

- GPMG’s – heavy hitters, capable of much more damage than the LMG’s. However, they are costly to fire, but they do provide massive suppression and a ten round burst. Again, troops with high strength and accuracy are needed to excel with these guns. Less versatile than the LMG’s, but more accurate and powerful.

- Explosives (reaction fire disabled, no close range hit bonus, no damage scaling, heavy weapon move penalty, strength limited):

- M9A1-7 – heavy, and limited range. Best used in a specialist clearing role where the enemy is entrenched behind cover – and preferably supressed, due to the disabled reaction modifier. Troops need high strength, and also health due to the short range (and easy accidents). Fires one burst of 100 rounds per turn.

- RPG-7 – ranged, armour piercing destruction, but with low accuracy. Troops need strength and accuracy to use this effectively. One shot per turn, and a lengthy reload.

- Handflammpatrone DM34 – disposable (one-shot) incendiary weapon, can fit in the backpack. Very useful for destroying cover, in a mobile fashion.

- Einstossflammenwerfer 46 – disposable flamethrower. Fits in backpack, but shorter range than the M9. Fun for everyone.

Sidearms: biggest reaction bonus (75%), fit in backpack, close range. Useful for rifle troops to switch to when breaching, and also medics.

- Revolvers – much higher damage per shot than the machine pistols, and a decent range (slightly higher than the SMG’s). The scoped Model 29 also features an aimed shot. All revolvers can fire thrice per turn.

- Machine pistols – capable of three bursts (of three bullets each) per turn. Short range (same as shotgun), and suffering from recoil, they are best given to troops with high strength, and TU’s, to be used as a point-blank finishing weapon.



An abandoned vanilla concept, I’ve resurrected them for M’nauts (with thanks to catmorbid for the idea – you should all check out his asymmetric weapons mod). Treat them like gpmgs’s or launchers – useable only in specific situations. They are excellent at removing cover – ideal for flushing out the little blighters when they turtle-up somewhere. Use with caution – make sure the user has no obstructions near themselves, or they could be toast. They can fire over immediate cover, but have a tendency to clip nearby objects, like all weapons do- however, with the flamers being explosive weapons, one doesn't need to be an expert to realise that this will likely kill the user. They are a devastating weapon, but need to be used correctly.

Future/next update

- Next update: the final weapon classes (auto rifles and semi auto pistols)

- More info for the combat analyses researches in the Xenopedia

- Vehicles – ballisticification of vehicles and their weapons. Probably some flame tanks too.

- Compatibility with community project

If anyone would like to help out (no experience necessary), send me a PM - there's always little bits that need doing.

Game assets

- The art assets, and even the photo’s, took a lot of work and time. I’d appreciate it if they weren’t re-used by other mods (unless I have previously said so). An idea of how much work goes into them: first thing is to source high-res pictures, which can take a while. Then they need to be cleanly cut out, edge-treated, re-sized, etc. This is a lot of work, considering the number of weapons (and their ammos). Further to this, turning them into the new-style artwork takes even longer. I would not be pleased to see them cropping up elsewhere. The Goldhawk forum is the only place where the mod can be hosted/advertised.

Other Info

- check out the main thread for M'nauts here

- other threads that track some of the progress are here (UI changes) and here (UFO resource changes)

Edited by Max_Caine
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I just want to come out and say that this mod is super badass.

The first time one of my guys fired one of these automatic grenade launchers, my beard grew three times its size.

9/10 Bald Eagles

Thanks. Those AGL's were lethal, I found myself killing my own troops with them quite often. But this was okay, as it was hilarious seeing them blow up.

They didn't make it into this version though (although they may come back in the future). However, they were replaced by things equally as invigorating - flamethrowers. And, I still manage to kill my own guys with these quite regularly too.

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Beards aren't traditionally flame-proof, but I am going to try it regardless. Keep up the good work.


And in other news, I'm going to add a few more hints and tips to the first post, so people don't end up getting noobed like I've just done:


Check the date. I'm only just in October and the buggers have wiped my unguarded second base. One may have forgotten to man the post.

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As always very clean work, well presented, well polished, interesting options, well balanced at first sight, very thematic oriented that gives lot of flavor to the "Clint Eastwood" genre and .... of course very fun to play!

I love the flamethrower (I want to steal it :3)


Thanks. Go ahead and take a look at the flamethrower code, it's pretty simple. The key is assigning it a good projectile spectre - the animated ones are the best (in the particles folder). There's all kinds of different colour explosions (and even non-explosions, like the teleport animation) that work well (red, green, blue, yellow) - some of which would look really good for an alien flamethrower in XNT.

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Right I've installed the mod and whatnot and I'm wondering- Will you possibly allow different types of ammunition? Especially for shotguns and AT rifles? AP, HE, slugs, all that jazz? Or just have like a shotgun that shoots slugs and longer range? Because shotungs really do have quite the long range, granted not longer than a rifle, but much much longer than what people think thanks to modern media. Also will you have sniper rifles or do battle and anti tank rifles just replace them?

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Right I've installed the mod and whatnot and I'm wondering- Will you possibly allow different types of ammunition? Especially for shotguns and AT rifles? AP, HE, slugs, all that jazz? Or just have like a shotgun that shoots slugs and longer range? Because shotungs really do have quite the long range, granted not longer than a rifle, but much much longer than what people think thanks to modern media. Also will you have sniper rifles or do battle and anti tank rifles just replace them?

I'd love to have different ammo types. But, and it's a big but, it's just not practical at the moment as the UI doesn't support multiple ammo types. There is a way (there's one in the Xenophobia mod) that's been tried out by different modders over the course of the game development, but the generally accepted rule is that it's just not feasible.

However, and it's a big however - your mention of the AT rifles has triggered some thinking - there is a way I could include different ammos, for shotguns at least. What I could do is further split the shotgun category, into pump-actions and semi-autos. Then, for example, the pumps could use a slug round (giving them just one pellet, and maybe a range touching the current carbine range), and the semis could be buckshot guns. The slug guns would then be like the AT rifles are in the rifle department - hard hitting but costly to fire, and the semis could carry on as usual. If that's an idea that people like, I'd put it in.

The only downside of this would be that shotgun gauges aren't particularly varied. For the four tiers, I'd have to go something like .410 > 20ga > 12ga > 10ga. But that might not be a problem - I could just explain it in the 'pedia as "we've chosen the .410 as our stock range due to it's manageable recoil". So, effectively we'd have two choices of shotgun, using a different ammo type each.

As for the snipers - yep, the battle rifles replace them. They're more accurate and more powerful than the AR's, and also have armour mitigation - so essentially, they do everything the vanilla snipers do, but just under a different name. The combat takes place over too small an area to have big-scoped snipers I think. The AT rifles fit a class of their own - they're not as accurate as the other rifles (they didn't need to be, shooting at big-ass tanks), but much harder hitting (potentially the most damaging guns in the game) - so there isn't a gun to compare them with from vanilla. But yeah, the battle rifles replace the snipers. The AT's are just a bonus.

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There's still bigger gauges than that. If you're.. Really wanting to go that far, anyway. Like the punt guns and all that jazz from before. And what Tactical said. Can you possibly mod in a way to increase that? Like with different armors? It's really small.

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The reduction of inventory space is realistic, but is not to punishing in late game?

It's almost the opposite - the biggest limit on how much a soldier can carry is the weight of the kit more than the size of the inventory, and this is countered in the late game both by having stronger soldiers and predator armour.

There's still bigger gauges than that. If you're.. Really wanting to go that far, anyway. Like the punt guns and all that jazz from before. And what Tactical said. Can you possibly mod in a way to increase that? Like with different armors? It's really small.
Loving this mod, but I wouldn't mind the option of a larger inventory myself. I don't really like having to throw my weapon on the ground to pull out my sidearm.
Yes, I do love the UI changes (better troop management, so much less hassle), and killcounts and such, but can we get files with optional vanilla inventory size? Or instructions how to implement them to your files?

I'm in the other camp when it comes to the inventory. When I play vanilla, I look at the backpack and think "holy shit, batman, that's bigger than the batcave". If anything, I think these ones are still too big! Here's why...

This is because I've been playing with them for quite a while. I think the biggest change is visually, and getting used to how it looks. Only very rarely is the backpack full on any of my soldiers (only the medic class really, because the medkit fills the bag), as weight is an issue before it gets full. I'd suggest giving it a few days or so of using it, because once the visual hurdle is overcome one doesn't even notice the smaller sizes.

The troops can still carry way more kit than they actually need. A couple of examples:

Assault - shotgun, 3 x ammo, 2 x C4, 7 x grenades

Support Gunner - LMG, 3 x ammo, 7 x grenades

Rifleman - rifle, 2 x ammo, 1 x machine pistol & 1 x ammo, 1 x truncheon, 4 x grenades

That's a lot of kit. No-one ever goes short - except for heavy weapons guys, like the flamers and AT rifles, because they are so heavy, and then it comes down to tactical decisions and how or why to use those guys.

With all this in mind, I'd say just keep using them - once the visual difference wears off, they're a lot of fun. They do have their quirks, like Lerzan points out about having to drop the primary weapon to pull out the sidearm - this might come down to individual playstyles. For example, with the range of weapons available, only my rifle troops have a sidearm in their bags, and they only switch to them for breaching. At this point, I'm happy to leave the primary on the floor, as it's less weight to carry and therefore more TU's to get into effective pistol range.

If anyone does want to change them back, the instructions/info are in the UI thread linked at the end of the first post. All the weapons would need re-sizing too, so it's quite a lot of work unfortunately.

There's still bigger gauges than that. If you're.. Really wanting to go that far, anyway. Like the punt guns and all that jazz from before.

Finding info on shotguns bigger than 12ga is like finding rocking-horse shit. It's nigh-on impossible. The only two I could find good info (and a picture) about is the two that made it into this version - the two 10 gauges, the Ithaca Mag-10 and the Winchester 1901. I originally wanted to go something like 12ga>10ga>8ga>6ga, but there's no info out there. The only one I could get info on is a 4ga (or equivalent, as it's made from old AA tubes), the KS-23. It's a gun I used back in Magnum Force, but it's too late for this mod (it was mid-80's). If anyone does know where I can get info on bigger gauge shotguns (that are still hand held, not punt guns!), let me know.

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Patch: Click here

Spotted a little error with the A-180 SMG (it was using the wrong "bullet type" - basically the target cursor was displaying an area of effect, like a rocket instead of a bullet).

Also included is the hidden movement screens which I accidentally missed out of the original download.

This patch won't break savegames. It's only needed if you've downloaded before this post, as I've updated the link in the first post.

I won't be doing frequent patches/updates - I prefer to space them out so everyone gets a chance to play the same game, if you see what I mean - so there won't be new patches/versions/hotfixes every few days.

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which leads to this




You'd have to go way back and possibly to what still may be considered a rifle, but it still fires shotgun shells.

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly - I know that there are bigger bores than 12/10ga, but finding specific guns (and sufficient information and pictures regarding the guns) that use them is next to impossible.

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I was wondering about the smg, I thought that it might have been it's suppression radius but I guess not!

I'll take your word for it and keep with the inventory. The weapon dropping thing was my only gripe since in my head they're throwing their weapons in the dirt/sand/snow. Mostly a RP thing, I do think it's more fun game play wise.

Just a disclaimer I don't know much about guns, but what of you went 12 ga to 12 ga magnum round and then the same for the 10s? There is still progression (I think) and you can use the models you have

Edited by Lerzan
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Are you telling me that you manage to add different inventory grid depending on the strength of the soldier?

No - I just explained it badly! I was saying that by the late game, soldiers generally have more strength (due to experience), and also predator armour is available.

I was wondering about the smg, I thought that it might have been it's suppression radius but I guess not!

I'll take your word for it and keep with the inventory. The weapon dropping thing was my only gripe since in my head they're throwing their weapons in the dirt/sand/snow. Mostly a RP thing, I do think it's more fun game play wise.

It took me a while to notice the SMG - I didn't have a soldier that I deemed strong enough to use it until today. And even then, it took me a few missions. Looked kinda cool, but I don't think it had an effect on gameplay.

I didn't consider the ground to be dirty, that's a good one. Hopefully, if the community coders can come up with coding support for the inventory sizes, there could be other ways to model the backpack and storage space - but from what I've read, it's a part of the code that doesn't behave itself.

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I could be wrong but if I fired from high cover with a smg pre fix then some of the rounds that hit MY cover from inaccuracies would damage the shooter. I think the AoE of the rounds may have caused that.

I think I got my edit in too late about the shotguns, but I thought it couldn't hurt to throw the idea out.

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I could be wrong but if I fired from high cover with a smg pre fix then some of the rounds that hit MY cover from inaccuracies would damage the shooter. I think the AoE of the rounds may have caused that.

I think I got my edit in too late about the shotguns, but I thought it couldn't hurt to throw the idea out.

Call it ricochet. In fact, that's not a bad idea at all...ricochets.

That's a good one about the shotguns, but I'd still be a couple short - say 12ga, 12M, 10, 10M, for pumps and semis, and I'll be damned if I can find info on any more 10ga than the two currently in game. However, this led me onto another idea - one that mvm900 mentioned earlier, about rifles...

Single-action rifles, like the Ruger No.1. These puppies fire insanely powerful bullets (maybe not as big as slugs, but in pure energy terms, they're 4x as powerful as the in game BR's) like the .458, and are designed for short range work (effective at ~50m-ish, which translates the same as shotguns). So these would be like the AT rifles of the breaching weapons - immensely damaging, but one shot per turn - very situational, but filling a role none the less.

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I could see that being interesting, but it worked even if I was standing over a trashcan. I would hope that I would have the strength and foresight to aim above, but my magnum-naut didnt. It was a good "for science! " at least.

I see a lot of role overlap there (don't get me wrong I love the weapon diversity and choice). I could see it as a weapon you'd use to take down the guy in big armor, but otherwise that amount of energy would punch straight through the target, wasting it, though that isn't modeled in the game.

I also looked and it seemed like sub 10 gauge guns were custom made and went away after they became illegal to hunt with. The only commercial ones are Remington kiln guns it looks like.but those seem too new. Maybe something like the M79 scatter shot(or slug for the single shot rifle)?

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I'm not sure, but I think armour mitigation is a bit funky anyhow - that's why I've gone back to using vanilla values for it. Weapons that had it seemed to be doing more damage than they should against unarmoured aliens (most aliens have no armour anyway), and this stopped when I took away the mitigation.

Role overlap can be easily avoided by adding characteristics to the weapons. For example, the carbines and AR's are nearly exactly the same stats, apart from a few key areas. Like, the carbine gets a reaction bonus (which makes a huge difference in game), but the AR's have greater range and hold their damage. Little things like that. The new weapons will fill a role similar to that of the AT rifle - firing once per turn, huge damage. But the difference from the AT's will be the short range and the reaction modifier (as they are are quite small weapons, despite the calibre). Also, there's a new variable which forces the use of strength or accuracy, whichever is lower - ideal for big-ass, recoil-heavy weapons (this variable is mentioned in the vanilla GC loading tips, but it appears that it's only just made it into play), which will further help to differentiate between weapons.

The initial list is looking like this: Winchester Model 88, Winchester 1895, Browning BLR, and then the Ruger No. 1. The range might have to be a bit abstracted on some of them (can't find definitive values), but the Ruger is certainly a sub-100m weapon. They'll probably have the range of the SMG's to model this, or maybe a bit higher, somewhere between SMG and carbine.

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That is too bad, it could have been a new strategic layer to play with, will these smaller caliber guns be able to make its way through the armor through sheer volume, or do I go for the stronger gun that should punch straight through, but only have one shot per turn.

That is a good point I haven't thought of before, and I do use the carbines much differently then I use the assault rifles The new modifier seems interesting, but I would think if you are a dead eye shot you would get one accurate shot off then the recoil would play hell on follow up shots.

Is the fact that they can fire once per turn their balance against high damage? I was wondering because 3 of those rifles have magazines, albeit rather small ones due to the caliber they fire. It seems that going from 4 shot rifles to a one shot would be a sharp change in how they are used strategically.

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