KevinHann Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 How thixotropic of you... Engineers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 As requested, I've done some changes to the Saucer Carrier 2nd floor. Interior has been shrunk by 1 tile to open more space for the exterior hull stand-points. Number of exterior hull doors has been reduced. I've also addressed the corner hull sections next to doors which left unpleasant gaps. For the sake of easy visual comparison I've attached the old design just under the new one. Tell me which one works better for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 This topic is awesome, congrat Kabill and Kevin. Your the best Alien Architects! Dowloaded and ready for testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Sadly I'm some way off providing something testable Do you have any thoughts on the designs, TD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I really like the cover just in front of the entrance doors, that make that suited defensive units prefer this spots (Especially when you set defensive script sight=0.8). I think that the inner core area is a heavy shock point, aliens can use doors to shot from different angles making the UFO more interesting to explorer and assault. The current carrier is multilayered plataform linked with too much teleporters for my taste. I strongly believe that teleporters need to work not as elevators, more to flank change or access to the most defended zones of the UFO. Where is the command room in this design? I think that could be really nice add some kind of teleport that lead the player to a sealed 3th floor directly in the middle of command room. In general the UFO could be a nice playground, again depending on the AI configuration. I think that could be nice run some AI test in this layouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 The plan was to have the command room where the holodesk is, although it was much more distinguishable in the previous version. I might do a command room on the first floor instead, in the inner yard square. Or have one in a third floor crossing the saucer like a long corridor above. Although I'm hesitant adding more space as it's over the number of tiles the original Carrier has and I'm worried I can't control how the aliens will actually use it - neat playgrounds aren't as fun when there are no kids in the 'hood! Might just leave it as it is, of course. I kind of like the concept of having many rooms incorporated into a single one, including the command room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I think that aliens will understand how to use this layouts. I worry about exteriors. Is possible to keep ascetics as possible it could be great. There is a problem with exteriors corners, in some points you can see into the UFO. If you polish or make special tile props for exterior things become more more interesting! Wonderful job! @Kabill I run some test of the scout layouts that are in the download I notice: - Multiple entrance make UFOs lot more fun to assault. - There are too much corners, be ware the LoF/LoS system has lot of issues. - Exterior ascetics are lost - Aliens react very well to the UFO layout (Specially with modded AI) - Alternative: Door Portholes setup in XNT makes much much more interesting the combat inside the UFO, the gun fight is intense and very surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I think that aliens will understand how to use this layouts.I worry about exteriors. Is possible to keep ascetics as possible it could be great. There is a problem with exteriors corners, in some points you can see into the UFO. If you polish or make special tile props for exterior things become more more interesting! Wonderful job! Thanks! Which exterior corners worry you? I've assigned walls behind all corner UFO hull tiles to block any potential undesired LoS breaches (updated image on top, the lower one is the older version) - if it's something else that worries you, please elaborate. I would be very happy if the aliens work well with the interiors, but the numbers do worry me - if they can't "fill the space" adequately and you end up walking around in a ghost UFO most of the time it won't be as fun. That happened to me a lot with the vanilla Carriers and they are smaller than this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Is it possible that you could also create different UFO for different alien race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Is it possible that you could also create different UFO for different alien race? That's what I'm trying to do. Do you mean if it's possible that the game will recognize the races and assign a race specific layout to them? Not at the moment (although kabill has mentioned some possible workarounds) but X:CE will incorporate that at some point, hopefully soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I try with the vanilla system and is actually impossible. The system dosen't read more AI and UFO. Otherwise make races is a complex process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 That's what I'm trying to do. Do you mean if it's possible that the game will recognize the races and assign a race specific layout to them? Not at the moment (although kabill has mentioned some possible workarounds) but X:CE will incorporate that at some point, hopefully soon. Something like that, but if you are modifying ground combat models it would be nice to not forget the geoscape models too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Something like that, but if you are modifying ground combat models it would be nice to not forget the geoscape models too. You have me confused a little here, how do you imagine a Sebillian Corvette looking different from Ceasan Corvette in the geoscape? In case you mean this in terms of modular UFOs and not race-specific UFOs as they would obviously look different in GC, sufficient art would be required for air combat and possibly Xenopedia - that's definitely out of my field of expertise and it's unlikely I'll advance that much to provide it. If anyone wishes to contribute at a future point when all that's being circulated in this thread becomes actual content, it would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 - Multiple entrance make UFOs lot more fun to assault. - There are too much corners, be ware the LoF/LoS system has lot of issues. - Exterior ascetics are lost - Aliens react very well to the UFO layout (Specially with modded AI) - Alternative: Door Portholes setup in XNT makes much much more interesting the combat inside the UFO, the gun fight is intense and very surprising. Note that the exterior walls were a placeholder: I made those maps before Aaron had made the new tiles. As for your point about the corners: what exactly was the issue? Are you meaning you can see inside the UF from outside? @Kevin: I really want to offer you some feedback on the carrier, but, to be honest, it's too large to get my head around and I can't imagine what it might be like to fight in in. I think it's something I'd need to look at up close to get a feel for. to say anything even remotely useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 @Kevin: I really want to offer you some feedback on the carrier, but, to be honest, it's too large to get my head around and I can't imagine what it might be like to fight in in. I think it's something I'd need to look at up close to get a feel for. to say anything even remotely useful. Come on, it's just a little bigger than vanilla Carrier! Your feedback is important, it's what's holding me back from rolling on the other two versions of it so that I can get it out of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 You're assuming that I could give useful feedback on the vanilla Carrier any better Ok, a few things: - I'm wondering whether there aren't too many entry points. I feel like it might be too easy to exploit this by entering one part of the UFO, clearing it, exiting and moving to the next point, re-entering and so on. Seeing as how the aliens won't be able to come out to attack, this 'skirmishing' approach might make it too easy to clear the ship. - The centre section on the ground level should have something in it. - In the ground level cargo room on the right hand side, the props to me feel too carefully placed. I think it's their fairly neat spacing that bothers me. - I really like the ground floor weapons room with the alternating rail/defence section. Looks good. - This is a more general point (did I make it above) but I'm not convinced by the Sebillian ground tiles. The other kinds look fine, but to me the gassy effect looks odd inside a UFO. Not a lot you can do about that, though. (Although I wonder whether the Caesan or Andron tiles coloured green would work?) - The top floor engine placement is a bit funny. In principle, I'd suggest moving it down to the bottom floor but I can't find a good place for it there, either. (It's a shame there aren't ne/sw facing engines, too, as you could have an engine pointing in each of three directions for multi-directional movement.) - The autopsy room is possibly too cramped. I'd remove/space out the tables a bit. - For me, the Fusion Reaction isn't in a risky enough place in terms of accidentally hitting/destroying it. I'd prefer to see it in an area that's more likely to see combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) You have me confused a little here, how do you imagine a Sebillian Corvette looking different from Ceasan Corvette in the geoscape?In case you mean this in terms of modular UFOs and not race-specific UFOs as they would obviously look different in GC, sufficient art would be required for air combat and possibly Xenopedia - that's definitely out of my field of expertise and it's unlikely I'll advance that much to provide it. If anyone wishes to contribute at a future point when all that's being circulated in this thread becomes actual content, it would be great. If you change the exterior design of the UFO, in my opinion that look should be changed also in Geoscope / Xenopedia - this will probably require XCE for sure. For the the race specific UFOs you have then 2 choices. You stick with same exterior for every race, but change the interior, or the extreme way you change the exterior and the interior per races but that would also include Geoscope / Xenopedia changes. I don't force anyone to do it. But it would be cool if you have such possibility. Edited July 10, 2014 by silencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) @silencer That's still a long way away from where we are now, mate. It's a little bit like discussing the wallpapers while you are still building the house. Let's take it one thing at a time. @kabill - Entry points: I am willing to reconsider the number of entries (already decreased it once) but I'd like to see how it works in some tests first. Let's say the player is willing to sacrifice even more time to hit and run through rooms individually while risking being flanked or overwhelmed by alien reinforcements - that might not be a bad thing but another viable option to approach clearing the UFO. Cutting it might actually be counter-productive in terms of variability. - I tried several things to fill the inner yard and settled for the more generic option you will see below. Not flawless but I didn't like the others at all. - Props on the ground level cargo room on the right hand side have been carelessly displaced. - I kind of love the Sebillian ground tiles and I spent so much time painting them I am not willing to re-draw them at this stage. Will see how it appears in game and revisit if necessary at later stage though. - Engine placement is not my favorite either and I tried to address it several times before even sharing the design, it will have to make-do the way it is. - Corpses disposed and tables dismantled to give the autopsy room on the ground floor a more spacious feel. - It might not look so in the image below, but I spent most time trying to find a new place for the Fusion reactor. My intention was to reposition the command room and place the reactor there, or put it in the inner yard. Though after spending a couple hours drawing three different command room options all of them felt much worse than it is now. So it stays where it is for the time being - but I do still consider this an issue and will address it if I revisit the design for changes after some test feedback is available. That being said I wasted too much time trying to tweak the Carrier design tonight and at some point you just have to call it a day and move on to remain productive. And I can't do that before providing the other two race-specific variations. So there is the Andron Saucer Carrier: Edited July 11, 2014 by KevinHann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Just to close the round of Saucer Carriers, below is the Ceasan version. And voila, it's 7:30 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Hmm.. I'm not that fond of the racial (green/red) versions. The caesan version is much better though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Hmm.. I'm not that fond of the racial (green/red) versions. The caesan version is much better though. I've been waiting for some feedback from you in a long time, thanks for popping up! First of all, is that a general remark, or your observation on Carrier specifically? You don't like the concept or the execution, mate? If it's the latter, would you elaborate what it is that bothers you, the specific props choice, ground, walls, etc? Do you think if there were race-specific doors it would appeal more to you (as that is the most obvious difference between Ceasan and the other two races in terms of contrast). Do you have suggestions how to mix them better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 You don't like the concept or the execution, mate? It's the former. I feel the red and green tilesets just aren't suitable for ufo's in general and should be left to bases to make them feel special and different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) It's the former. I feel the red and green tilesets just aren't suitable for ufo's in general and should be left to bases to make them feel special and different. Alright, we will have to agree to disagree on this one then. I very much enjoy the green tileset in an UFO - although the red one doesn't blend very well with the unskippable original props, indeed. Edited July 11, 2014 by KevinHann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Hey guys - it didn't occur to me people were trying to do diagonal tiles with these; the ones you are using for that are actually meant to simply be used to blend between the two different hull "styles". So I've made some new tiles specifically for making diagonals, download them here. I have included the updated blender model file too. You should be able to update your existing maps to use them just by doing a find and replace on the map file with a tool like notepad++. Also I really encourage you guys to get stuck in and try making some new tiles with the .blend file. It really isn't as hard as it looks, just do a few tutorials from somewhere like this to get the basics and you could be making all kinds of new stuff like doors that match these tiles, destructible wall sections, outer hull props etc... I'd be happy to answer any questions people have on the process (PM me if I don't respond in this thread promptly, as I don't get time to read the forums as often as I used to). Edited July 11, 2014 by Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Okay folks, here is an initial take of a not-so-saucerish Saucer Battleship, Andron version. Tell me what you think. EDIT: Thanks, Aaron! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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