Jump to content
tanelorn

Burst fire: not what the game is making it to be

Recommended Posts

In this game, burst fire is given a low accuracy and high time cost. In reality, burst works like this (and I know because I'm prior service):

1. Flip to burst

2. Aim (this is where the time comes in, do you aim carefully or snap shot)

3. Pull trigger. 3 rounds leave your rifle: DAT! DAT! DAT!

Round 1 goes exactly where you were aiming. Rounds 2 and 3 veer off some (depending on how you hold and control the rifle)

The change I recommend:

1. set the weapon on single fire or burst separately. This is present in the game but not treated as a setting and generally ignored.

2. All 3 aim timings are available, in both single shot and burst. It's the time you take to aim, not the time it takes to fire the burst that matters.

3. The first shot is at the accuracy of your chosen aim method. The second and third are at reduced accuracy.

There. Proper burst fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But why would you ever not use burst fire in that system?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Preserving ammo would be the only genuine reason. Probably a balance can be struck within such a system if burst fire exhausts ammo much more extensively than it currently does but that also defeats the strive for realism the OP asks for. Anyway it's strictly modding territory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@tanelorn: Maybe you could view the additional TUs as the "after-effect" of the burst on your composure? Not sure though, I never had a real gun in my hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But why would you ever not use burst fire in that system?

XCOM:EU uses very small small magazines and firing burst (suppression) leads to a lot of time-consuming reloading. It works.

Detection mechanics would also be an option. The more often you shoot, the more visible you become to aliens.

Every shot adds maybe +2 tiles to the range at which you are seen by aliens so you get more return fire. A sniper gets to fire higher power rounds so gets to deliver more damage accurately without a lot of the disadvantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, there are ways to make this system work if you change the other game mechanics in the combat and give the weapons tiny magazines, but I don't think the OP wants us to completely rewrite the way the combat works. I'm just pointing out that burst fire is pretty much always better than single shots on an AR under the proposed system.

Also, as they are suggesting changes to burst fire on grounds of realism I'd imagine giving the weapons tiny magazines would be equally problematic for the same reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly what I said, more or less. But perhaps he could find some comfort in modded material or even draw inspiration for a mod of his own - sometimes frustration can be channeled to bring unexpected gems!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In boot camp they had us practice burst fire some just to get used to it. I don't remember ever using it in combat training. I wasn't infantry but in practice I don't think it gets used much. It's already easy enough to empty a magazine on single shot; no need to spray it all away in 10 bursts where only 1 in 3 bullets is accurately fired. Not unless you're just trying to overwhelm someone with volume of fire, that is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But why would you ever not use burst fire in that system?

I dunno, why do people sometimes not use burst fire in real life?

There's nothing implicitly wrong with burst fire being the default firing mode for the rifle. Maybe single shot for precision work at long range so as not to waste ammunition. The game would still work if you'd designed it the other way around with burst fire in mind.

Edited by ThoseDeafMutes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I dunno, why do people sometimes not use burst fire in real life?

Because unless you're in someone's face, burst fire is primarily a way to miss everything you're shooting at?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trigger discipline. It's usually up to the soldier. I'm current service, Infantry, and it's simply based on distance and weapon choice essentially. Burst is more of a mid-close range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this game, I've found burst fire to be fairly effective in close quarters since accuracy is already high and I can guarantee three rounds on target. The only other use for burst would be to generate high volumes of fire to gain fire superiority, but given the three round limit, you would likely need more than one rifle servicing that target. LMGs are more effective for that purpose.

Why isn't burst fire used more often? Well - it depends on the unit. But the US Army trains on precision shooting for one reason: conservation. First, a soldier with a standard combat load can quickly deplete his ammo if firing indiscriminately in burst. Second, indiscriminately expending ammunition is expensive. The ratio of rounds per enemy KIA in the Vietnam War was insanely high, which is why the Army eliminated automatic fire on assault rifles and discourages the use of burst. The cost of producing, transporting, and securing ammunition is high and it also elevates the risk to combat support elements responsible for those operations since it requires them to resupply forward units more frequently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I rarely use burst fire in the game. I'm more effective with longer shots with the rifle. When I do use burst, I typically wish I'd had a shotgun instead at such close ranges. I do however use the hell out of LMG simply for suppression. Not sure what tweak burst should have, perhaps a hybrid between suppression and hits, with rifle suppression not being as effective TU degradation wise as LMG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to see burst fire added to the minimi. It's strange that you can only fire 10 rounds. It should be 3-round burst/long burst selection. And then this gets me thinking about how awesome it would have been if prone were added, at least for the sniper/LMG class. That bipod is a bit silly without it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×