Chris Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Harridans on upper levels are sometimes nearly impossible to see specially if there on the back side of a ship or building. You might be getting sniped by one of them. They have great accuracy. Try changing your view level and moving the cursor around multi-story objects. If it turns red you have a high sniper. Yeah but in that case you'd have the "alien spotted" icon anyways, so it's unlikely to be that. Unless they're walking out to shoot at you, then moving back into hiding afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonie Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Then you were playing a night mission or an alien you didn't see had sight on you. The aliens have the exact same sight range as your guys do and won't snipe you from beyond visual range under any other circumstances. Yes, it was a night mission. But surly running my men towards the direction of fire should have reveled the alien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Yes, it was a night mission. But surly running my men towards the direction of fire should have reveled the alien.Not necessarily. The aliens can see normally at night and your sight range is much shorter. Also, the aliens are pretty good about pulling back under cover to remain hidden. If a different alien spotted you than the one that fired the shooter (using squad sight) could have been really far away more than your guys could cover running. Harridans in particular are really good long range snipers. I didn't know this was a night mission. That changes everything. I avoid those like the plague for the exact reasons we're talking about. Your case would be the perfect time to use a vehicle. Their headlights have excellent range. Edited July 2, 2014 by StellarRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Of course you'll be shot from beyond your visual range on a night mission - that's why night missions are dangerous and the pop-up tooltip specifically explains how night sight works. You need to change your tactics for night missions or avoid them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwolves Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 If you leave your troops out in the open, you can expect them to take fire. The aliens can leave a sniper way behind, and have a guy look around a corner, spot you, the sniper shoots (from miles away) then the spotter hides again. At night aliens do not have as short a visual range as humans. You can use that too. It is the AI being I. I take a grenadier along, so I can have someone hurling flares around early in the mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 BTW tomorrow I'll put out a patch for this to allow people not on Steam to upgrade from V1.07, as has been requested earlier in the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 That would be great! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonie Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) If you leave your troops out in the open, you can expect them to take fire. The aliens can leave a sniper way behind, and have a guy look around a corner, spot you, the sniper shoots (from miles away) then the spotter hides again. At night aliens do not have as short a visual range as humans.You can use that too. It is the AI being I. I take a grenadier along, so I can have someone hurling flares around early in the mission. I understand the theory, I think it has been explained to me before, but in practice I see no evidence of this being the case. It feels wrong, totally unfair, and as if it was more the AI cheating, emulating the above theory. From what I read others avoid these missions for the same reasons. I know when I come across this it makes me really angry. If I lose a man, I want to be able to say "Okay, shit happens" and not "You have to be f****** kidding me". A black mark on what has turned out overall to be a very good game. Note to self; Avoid night/cheat missions like the plague. Edited July 3, 2014 by Moonie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legit1337 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I understand the theory, it think it has been explained to me before, but in practice I see no evidence of this being the case. It feels wrong, totally unfair, and as if it was more the AI cheating, emulating the above theory.From what I read others avoid these missions for the same reasons. I know when I come across this it makes me really angry. If I lose a man, I want to be able to say "Okay, shit happens" and not "You have to be f****** kidding me". A black mark on what has turned out overall to be a very good game. Note to self; Avoid night/cheat missions like the plague. I always bring a vehicle to night missions. The headlights are invaluable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonie Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I always bring a vehicle to night missions. The headlights are invaluable. Thanks. I might try this just to prove that there is no secret squirrel spotting for well positioned snipers, and more, that the whole thing be nothing but a farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Patch is now available in the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 From what I read others avoid these missions for the same reasons. I know when I come across this it makes me really angry. If I lose a man, I want to be able to say "Okay, shit happens" and not "You have to be f****** kidding me". For my part, I avoid night missions because they're more difficult but not because I'm frustrated by that fact. I know if I start a night mission that I'm going to be at a disadvantage and if I'm fighting a night mission it's because I've chosen to accept that risk. Yes, it's unfair, but for me that's precisely the point. The only thing I find frustrating is the fact there's almost never any incentive to actually do night missions, which is a shame because I think the atmosphere during them is fantastic. I'd almost be tempted to make a mod which means all missions are fought at night, just for the sake of fighting night missions! (Also, if you removed the sight advantage aliens had during night missions, you'd probably have to remove the entire light mechanic as well unless you could get the AI to effectively deploy flares/whatever of their own.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonie Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 For my part, I avoid night missions because they're more difficult but not because I'm frustrated by that fact. I know if I start a night mission that I'm going to be at a disadvantage and if I'm fighting a night mission it's because I've chosen to accept that risk. Yes, it's unfair, but for me that's precisely the point.The only thing I find frustrating is the fact there's almost never any incentive to actually do night missions, which is a shame because I think the atmosphere during them is fantastic. I'd almost be tempted to make a mod which means all missions are fought at night, just for the sake of fighting night missions! (Also, if you removed the sight advantage aliens had during night missions, you'd probably have to remove the entire light mechanic as well unless you could get the AI to effectively deploy flares/whatever of their own.) Fair enough. But what a shame so many of us have to miss out on a part of the game that could be fun (flares, spooky dark corners and all that) because of..........................because of what ever it's because of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Fair enough. But what a shame so many of us have to miss out on a part of the game that could be fun (flares, spooky dark corners and all that) because of..........................because of what ever it's because of. But if you look away the asymmetrical sight ranges, things like flares and dark corners would be irrelevant. You'd be left with a day mission with mood lighting. For me, anyway, a lot of the atmosphere of night missions comes from the threat of being shot from the dark and the missions would lose their tension if that wasn't possible. (For what it's worth, if you really hate it you could remove the night sight penalty for your soldiers. The night sight modifier is in config.xml in the LoS settings.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I also avoid night missions because of the significant extra difficulty, and they should be more difficult of course. They should make you want to move even more carefully, deploying flares everywhere and so on. There's an easy solution - make crash sites expire faster than they do, and also if some dropship is in flight. That will mean you can no longer time your Chinook launch so that every mission is during the day. Fighting during the night will then become a risk you will have to take if you want to secure some downed UFOs. This also adds value to a second assault team, as with two teams you'd be much more able to choose the time of your engagement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I also avoid night missions because of the significant extra difficulty, and they should be more difficult of course. They should make you want to move even more carefully, deploying flares everywhere and so on. There's an easy solution - make crash sites expire faster than they do, and also if some dropship is in flight. That will mean you can no longer time your Chinook launch so that every mission is during the day. Fighting during the night will then become a risk you will have to take if you want to secure some downed UFOs. This also adds value to a second assault team, as with two teams you'd be much more able to choose the time of your engagement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There's an easy solution - make crash sites expire faster than they do, and also if some dropship is in flight. If only someone with super programming powers could make this available to the modding masses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonie Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) But if you look away the asymmetrical sight ranges, things like flares and dark corners would be irrelevant. You'd be left with a day mission with mood lighting. For me, anyway, a lot of the atmosphere of night missions comes from the threat of being shot from the dark and the missions would lose their tension if that wasn't possible.(For what it's worth, if you really hate it you could remove the night sight penalty for your soldiers. The night sight modifier is in config.xml in the LoS settings.) I would rather nobble the aliens. The problem here, besides a iffy logic, is the bloody alien accuracy. You are not given a opportunity to respond, thus making the whole thing a waste of time. I understand that humans without the aid of night-sights are handicapped in the dark, but to elevate this fact into a duck-shoot does not add anything good to the game. We SHOULD look forward to night missions, we should enjoy night missions and not AVOID night missions. It's a game. Edited July 3, 2014 by Moonie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentelin Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There's an easy solution - make crash sites expire faster than they do, and also if some dropship is in flight. But wasn't this case months ago and then people complained that crash sites expire too fast or something in that line ?Wouldn't be better if we get to choose whatever we want to keep current settings or change how fast they will expire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutger Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Thanks for uploading the patch, Chris. I also avoid night missions because of the significant extra difficulty, and they should be more difficult of course. They should make you want to move even more carefully, deploying flares everywhere and so on. But this is how it works now during the night missions. Flares are unlimited, so you can spam them as much you like. I find this anticlimatic. It would make much more sense if each soldier had between 5 or 10 flares, that could be picked up and throw again. This could make the role of Scout more important as well, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Unlimited flares aren't really the problem. Either you limit them artificially to a very low number, or you have enough anyway. I think night missions are tense enough when I know that my men may be unable to see an alien that's ready to fire. The problem is that you can do mission during the day by timing your dropship launch correctly. Actually crash sites don't even have to disappear with the dropship on the way, but let's say if the launch window was 6-8 hours. That would mean you sometimes either do night missions, or the crash site will disappear before you launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I would rather nobble the aliens. The problem here, besides a iffy logic, is the bloody alien accuracy. You are not given a opportunity to respond, thus making the whole thing a waste of time.I understand that humans without the aid of night-sights are handicapped in the dark, but to elevate this fact into a duck-shoot does not add anything good to the game. I'm not sure it does turn the game into a duck-shoot, though. At least, not by necessity. You just have to approach the missions in a different way: stay hidden where possible, make use of flares/vehicles to get areas lit-up, use smoke preemptively, deploy shields for when you need to cross stretches of open ground, etc. Indeed, the fact that they require a different approach to day missions is one of the key reasons why I like the asymmetrical sight ranges and why I think it adds to the game. Nevertheless, I think at this point I'm going to agree to disagree with you. I understand why you might find it frustrating, even if I don't personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutger Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Unlimited flares aren't really the problem. Either you limit them artificially to a very low number, or you have enough anyway. They are, because there is no need for strategic deployment of them, since soldiers have unlimited supply. By artificial limit you mean pretending to have limited amount? The problem is that you can do mission during the day by timing your dropship launch correctly. Actually crash sites don't even have to disappear with the dropship on the way, but let's say if the launch window was 6-8 hours. That would mean you sometimes either do night missions, or the crash site will disappear before you launch. Take into consideration situation, when there are multiple Crash Sites and player has only one Dropship. He wants to ground attack them all, but needs to return to base for supplies first. Decreasing time will take away this option. I don't see sense in enforcing night missions. Even if you decrease the time, players who don't like them will Airstrike Crash Sites anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alewalek Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) I dont like fight in the dark but i just accept what game brings to me, so I lunch dropship ASAP and count on luck if I reach crashite in dark Iam unlucky and fight anyway. 10 flares per 1 soldier its lots to finish night mission i think i never spamed more then 5 per 1 guy (so eather u have to limit them to max 5 or leave unlimited) and I have played many night missions, as i said i was newer boder with avoiding them. Take into consideration situation, when there are multiple Crash Sites and player has only one Dropship. He wants to ground attack them all, but needs to return to base for supplies first. have to since when? As i know you can do as much missions as u have fuel in the dropship and all your soldierss are not wounded, casue you have max supy beetwen missions without going back to base. I disagree with that so hope somone will eather fix this or mod. Edited July 3, 2014 by Alewalek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonie Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure it does turn the game into a duck-shoot, though. At least, not by necessity. You just have to approach the missions in a different way: stay hidden where possible, make use of flares/vehicles to get areas lit-up, use smoke preemptively, deploy shields for when you need to cross stretches of open ground, etc. Indeed, the fact that they require a different approach to day missions is one of the key reasons why I like the asymmetrical sight ranges and why I think it adds to the game.Nevertheless, I think at this point I'm going to agree to disagree with you. I understand why you might find it frustrating, even if I don't personally. You're correct, this is how night missions should be approached. The holes appear when you find that all of a sudden every alien is a sharp shooter, and the killing shot usually comes from behind. Closing the distance is usually certain death. Shields blip out in one shot leaving you very little health if any. Smoke works both ways. Again, if you can't respond you can't play, only pray. Edited July 4, 2014 by Moonie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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