What Arbitrary Silliness

[Mathalor]

In the game review that I saw, alien craft can escape a dogfight by reaching the edge of the map. That doesn't make any sense. The map is supposedly just an arbitrary screen showing the details of the combat, not an exit portal. Escaping by reaching the end of the map seems forced, arbitrary, and silly.

I am excited by this game, I loved x-com. But this one issue really bothered me. I think it should be fixed.

Some ideas on how to fix it:

UFOs can escape not by reaching the edge of the map, but by getting enough distance away from the interceptor and/or enough elevation.

Tactical bursts of speed could be added to the mini game, with whatever explanation, maybe afterburners, doesn't matter really. The mini game map would have to update if a ufo reaches its edge. With elevation being a valid escape, an elevation marker should be added, probably in small figures near each craft, and an entry should be added in the ufopaedia listing the maximum elevation of each of the defending craft types. Perhaps research could increase that number, perhaps not.

Or, if there's only one ufo on the screen, it would be possible to center the map on the ufo and have all other actions be performed relative to it. I think that would be too weird looking though.

Since this probably affects tactical missions as well, and the concept of shifting the map to accommodate fleeing aliens would be way too much work for too little gain (in my mind), mention somewhere in the dialogue that your soldiers can't stray too far from the mission field, maybe they have to stay close to the interceptor, or some machine with a satellite uplink, or something. Give a reason, so it doesn't seem so arbitrary. If you want to really go crazy, explain that the field is what the commander can see and issue orders to, and soldiers can leave the area, but they are on their own if they do so. A soldier leaving the field to pursue an escaping alien would be out of contact with a good chance of dieing or returning empty handed, but a small chance of apprehending the fleeing alien and returning with it. But that would take a lot of extra coding. Either way, give an explanation somewhere.

I can't look at the game until this weekend because I'll be doing homework (I WILL be doing homework, hear that, self?). I am basing my info on online reviews and footage from reviewers and cons. If it's out of date so that this is no longer an issue, my apologies.

Just, no unexplained arbitrary borders, especially in the dogfights, that say, "Oops, we know he was 50 feet away from your pursuing ships, but he gets away. He crossed the invisible line! Better luck next time!"

[Wulf]

Afterburners are in already and work like you suggested, and most ships will attempt to attack rather than flee unless damaged or you outnumber them significantly, in which case you can easily catch them with afterburner. In practice, enemy UFOs can't escape very easily and it's more likely you'll either shoot them down on the initial engagement or very quickly in a pursuit.

As for your notes on ground combat, I don't think aliens can actually flee off the edge of the map, they only are marked "escape" in debriefing when you take and hold the UFO. If that's not true or is planned for the future, someone can correct me on that.

[GoodGuyEddy]

Deleted message.

Edited September 4, 2012 by GoodGuyEddy

[Max_Caine]

If I understand you correctly, you've identified an issue that doesn't make sense to you and you want somethng done about it so it makes sense. Am I correct?

As you are unaware of how air combat works, here's a brief rundown. When air combat starts, both sets of combatants are displayed on a 2-dimensional "game board". All air combat is strictly 2-D, (I can't imagine it changing, otherwise the entire way the air combat is currently handled would have to change). Combatants can be a squadron of up to three aircraft on both sides. The combatants begin on different portions of the game board. Human aircraft usually start on the edge, UFOs are generally in the center. That's for a number of reasons, one of which is that missiles have a lock on period, so there needs to be enough time for aircraft to get a lock on their opponent. all UFOs have a "bravery" score, which indicates their willingness to fight in the face of aircraft faced and damaged suffered. (We had a period when all light scouts ran away the moment air combat was initated, which meant long stern chases punctuated with lots of swearing). IF the UFOs want to fight, they come at the aircraft. As already stated, missiles take a while to lock on. When they have locked on, you can set them to shoot or not shoot. When they get into range, all missiles are launched excepted those set not to (typically verses fightercraft, you fire one missile to make them evade, then fire the other while they are evading so they get hit by the second missile). Some UFOs can evade missiles and cannon fire. Most can't. Some of your aircraft can evade missiles and plasma bolts. All human aircraft have an afterburner.

Now, to your points. Without a third dimension elevation is not a factor in determining a means of escape. As there can be up to three craft on each side, it's not possible to center the map. If escape were based on an arbitrary distance, combat would probably end before it began as both sides begin quite some distance from each other. Or if escape was based on being further away than the start distance (say, twice the inital distance), then if a UFO flees, combat would devolve into long stern chases, only ending when aircraft ran out of fuel to continue. There were a LOT of complaints when there was the period when the bravery score was set too low and light scouts ran away every time when combat started. It meant that to catch up with them, you had to use the afterburner, and aircraft didn't often have enough fuel to use the afterburner for anything but a quick boost - whih you couldn't do in a stern chase. Finally, aren't you simply just changing the boundary but not the rule when you say "escape is determined at X distance"? That's the same arbitrary rule that you complain about with the map edge, just expressed in a different manner.

[Gauddlike]

I can see how having distance from your craft being the trigger for escape would work.

It was discussed pretty thoroughly back when the air combat was first implemented if I remember rightly.

I don't really mind though, the current system works and has less potential drawbacks than changing it.

If the time is available to test a new system then that would probably be the basis for it.

Your own craft are reliant on fuel so chasing an enemy indefinitely, especially using afterburners, would cause them to crash and be lost pretty quickly.

The same goes for running away.

If you need to leave because you have 75% fuel and you need 70% to return to base the enemy can win just by staying in range until you hit 69%.

Your fighters will be lost on the trip home.

The mini game air combat is supposed to be something you can run through numerous times without having too much depth to it.

The map edge as an escape point is designed to give a way to quickly and easily break contact (for you or the alien).

If you want to go on about arbitrary limits you could talk about how weapons have incredibly reduced ranges, how soldiers don't normally stand idle while the other team has a go at walking round and shooting etc.

[Gorlom]

Hello and welcome to the forum Mathalor.

You have misunderstood some mechanics, and I think not fully understood what your suggestion will bring with it.

In X-com the game decided the distance between UFOs and fighters without visual representation and could accelerate the UFO very quickly if it decided the UFO was successful in fleeing.

In Xenonauts it is harder to suddenly outdistance another ship. Any attempt to flee from either side would be dragged out and tedious. Added to that the Xenonauts ship has a limited amount of fuel as a resource. If the UFO can flee indefinitely or pursue your ship just enough that you can't escape you lose your plane due to bad mechanics.

IMO the arbitrary limit is one of the better solutions to this feature. And I really think you should try it out before you complain about it.

Edit: bah Max and Gauddlike beat me to it.

[Jean-Luc]

UFOs escape into space. The "invisible line" is the atmosphere if you will.

It's a game thing. Just as RTS games have "arbitrary" map edges that you cannot cross, or RPGs have "arbitrary" locations that you can go to but nowhere else or the way that Counter Strike or COD maps don't allow you to go around the edges but "force" you to stay on the pre-determined map, etc, etc. I mean honestly. This is nothing new nor is it silly, it's genuine game design.

The elevation thing you mention is exactly what goes on, the UFO moves upwards and escapes into space. That's why you get the message "UFO has escaped into space". Markers are superfluous and in the end you're free to rationalize it however you want, it doesn't matter. The air combat tactical map is symbolic, a radar view basically.

[Mathalor]

Well, all right then. It sounds like I was wrong and this isn't a big issue.

I got my information from online reviews and the like. I'll get to sit down with a copy of the game this weekend. If I'm still upset, I may post some more about it. Thanks everyone for the responses.

Edit: Jean-Luc: Actually, saying that the UFO escapes into space is a really good solution, it explains what happened and doesn't feel as forced. And doesn't require a rewrite of part of the game this late in development. I was assuming they just went back to the geoscape, like in the original X-Com. It also means that if your interceptors chased the UFO away, well you don't get points for cleanup of the artifacts but you still feel like you accomplished something, however small, for your trouble. I like it.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Mathalor

[Vivisector 9999]

It also means that if your interceptors chased the UFO away, well you don't get points for cleanup of the artifacts but you still feel like you accomplished something, however small, for your trouble. I like it.

Actually, this is even more true than you probably think.

Something else you might not have read elsewhere is that, unlike the original X-COM, every few minutes that a UFO is on the geoscape, there's a chance that it will generate a minor event (cattle mutilations, abductions, EM interference, downed airliners, etc) that slightly but negatively impacts your score in that area.

This was put into the game to give the player better feedback on the aliens' progress with their own campaign, and what areas of the globe the aliens are most active in. But it also means that merely chasing a UFO back into space helps you, even if you failed to destroy it.

[Gauddlike]

I got my information from online reviews and the like. I'll get to sit down with a copy of the game this weekend. If I'm still upset, I may post some more about it. Thanks everyone for the responses.

Any ideas shared are a good thing, even if they aren't always well received they can spark ideas in others