Upkeep Costs Too High

[Wyldefyre_CP]

This didn't bother me much in the original game ... coming back to play this now after about a year of being away, one of the first things that strikes me is how much everything costs, both to build and then to contain ... if I'm going to hark on one thing in particular, it'll be the 125,000 needed to maintain the access lift every month.  Now I get that you need the access lift, and I'm sure hydraulics can run some $$$ to maintain, but to put it in perspective, 3 aircraft of the most garden variety you can make only cost 240,000 to maintain ... so this elevator is basically running us 1 1/2 aircraft a month in maintenance.  Another 10,000 to keep the lights on and the dust swept in the storage area ... ok, it's storing alien stuff, weapons, elements, bodies, if you don't sell them right back out the door, I guess .... 

Then there's the cost to hire and then keep your scientists and engineers going .... at 50K per head to hire extras and then $25K a head to keep each happy, there goes another huge chunk of the budget out the door.

I built one base in the first month (seemed insane to try starting a 2nd one, considering the costs).  I added a 2nd lab, a 2nd workshop, a 2nd generator and a medical facility.  Also built the first trio of aircraft and maybe had one suit of armor done.  Lost 5 soldiers and hired 4 more.  Did not hire any new scientists or engineers (couldn't afford it).  Nothing in the first month increased panic levels in any of the countries so I made the standard payoff at the end of the first month.  Looking at the paltry 1,330,000 I have to work with in the beginning of month 2, it's apparent I won't be getting a 2nd base started anywhere this month, either.  For some reason, it looks like I'll need a third living quarters area just to have a comfortable rotation of soldiers in and out of the medbay and available to keep 10 man missions going throughout the month and also get maybe all my extra scientists and engineers hired if I'm lucky.  I'm also noting it costs twice as much to build a storeroom as it does a hangar, and the same amount of time to build, even though the hangar is 4x larger than the storeroom is.  And does that one drop ship take up all that hangar space all by itself?  If so, I need to fire the genius pilot who decided to triple park the thing right in the middle of the hangar, when it looks like I ought to be able to squeeze two more aircraft in there with it.  

 

This looks like a complete gripe-fest, and I want to apologize for that.  There are A LOT of things about the game I am thoroughly enjoying.  I know if your scientists or engineers aren't busy they will make you back some money every hour, but aside from the early engineers playing the role of Maytag repairmen for the first week or two, that's not much of an early to mid game help.  I would like to at least get a 2nd base off the ground before the 2nd month's completely gone, but it looks like I'll be lucky to flesh out the first base.  Especially when a 2nd access lift is going to murder my budget.

[CaptainSPrice]

14 minutes ago, Wyldefyre_CP said:

This didn't bother me much in the original game ... coming back to play this now after about a year of being away, one of the first things that strikes me is how much everything costs, both to build and then to contain ... if I'm going to hark on one thing in particular, it'll be the 125,000 needed to maintain the access lift every month.  Now I get that you need the access lift, and I'm sure hydraulics can run some $$$ to maintain, but to put it in perspective, 3 aircraft of the most garden variety you can make only cost 240,000 to maintain ... so this elevator is basically running us 1 1/2 aircraft a month in maintenance.  Another 10,000 to keep the lights on and the dust swept in the storage area ... ok, it's storing alien stuff, weapons, elements, bodies, if you don't sell them right back out the door, I guess .... 

Then there's the cost to hire and then keep your scientists and engineers going .... at 50K per head to hire extras and then $25K a head to keep each happy, there goes another huge chunk of the budget out the door.

I built one base in the first month (seemed insane to try starting a 2nd one, considering the costs).  I added a 2nd lab, a 2nd workshop, a 2nd generator and a medical facility.  Also built the first trio of aircraft and maybe had one suit of armor done.  Lost 5 soldiers and hired 4 more.  Did not hire any new scientists or engineers (couldn't afford it).  Nothing in the first month increased panic levels in any of the countries so I made the standard payoff at the end of the first month.  Looking at the paltry 1,330,000 I have to work with in the beginning of month 2, it's apparent I won't be getting a 2nd base started anywhere this month, either.  For some reason, it looks like I'll need a third living quarters area just to have a comfortable rotation of soldiers in and out of the medbay and available to keep 10 man missions going throughout the month and also get maybe all my extra scientists and engineers hired if I'm lucky.  I'm also noting it costs twice as much to build a storeroom as it does a hangar, and the same amount of time to build, even though the hangar is 4x larger than the storeroom is.  And does that one drop ship take up all that hangar space all by itself?  If so, I need to fire the genius pilot who decided to triple park the thing right in the middle of the hangar, when it looks like I ought to be able to squeeze two more aircraft in there with it.  

 

This looks like a complete gripe-fest, and I want to apologize for that.  There are A LOT of things about the game I am thoroughly enjoying.  I know if your scientists or engineers aren't busy they will make you back some money every hour, but aside from the early engineers playing the role of Maytag repairmen for the first week or two, that's not much of an early to mid game help.  I would like to at least get a 2nd base off the ground before the 2nd month's completely gone, but it looks like I'll be lucky to flesh out the first base.  Especially when a 2nd access lift is going to murder my budget.

In begin focus on doing as many missions as possible to grew money, i noticed if you do lots of ground missions, it gonna grew monthly economy. Also when you play Combat Missions learn how to use Smoke Grenades(Best grenades ever), and learn how to farm Reflex on soldiers. If you master Reflex farming = Campaing = ez run.

[Alienkiller]

I suggest you play UFO 1 and 2 Extraterestials and the good old X-COM too. Then you will see that such Costs are not unrealistic per Month. You have 1 Main Base where the Main-Work get done and several small ones. How you build the smaller ones is up to you. As an good old X-Com-Player (the first Games and Pioneer for all successors like UFO-ET- and Xeononaut-Series) I know that such Prices are not unusual for an Special Military Organisition.

You get the Best of the Best from Beginning on. Not Standarized or fully Normal Things every Civilian get. And you will get more Budget / Special Things later on. The Game is still WIP, in Rework, Upgrade and Refit with already testet Parts, evtl. an small Fine-Ballancing here will come too. Not much but a little.

[Chris]

It's deliberately set up for the player to have limited options to expand before the Cleaner Base is removed (which increases your monthly funding by £1m per month). If we let players get a second base up and running in month 1 of 8-10 month game there's not a lot of room left for expansion in the rest of the game because you'll have global coverage by month 3.

Not to say there's not room to tweak the values but you do need to consider things with that mindset.

[Alienkiller]

Thanks Chris.

Yes that´s cool new Stuff with the Cleanders and the Money-Break until they get finished off. Hope more of that is comming in.

[Wyldefyre_CP]

2 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

I suggest you play UFO 1 and 2 Extraterestials and the good old X-COM too. Then you will see that such Costs are not unrealistic per Month. You have 1 Main Base where the Main-Work get done and several small ones. How you build the smaller ones is up to you. As an good old X-Com-Player (the first Games and Pioneer for all successors like UFO-ET- and Xeononaut-Series) I know that such Prices are not unusual for an Special Military Organisition.

You get the Best of the Best from Beginning on. Not Standarized or fully Normal Things every Civilian get. And you will get more Budget / Special Things later on. The Game is still WIP, in Rework, Upgrade and Refit with already testet Parts, evtl. an small Fine-Ballancing here will come too. Not much but a little.

Understood .... I've played all the old XCom's, the new XCom's, Phoenix Point, UFO: Aftermath, and the original Xenonauts, so I have some decent understanding on the whole base management thing.  What Chris commented on up above about deliberately limited options early on satisfies my gripe to some degree and gives me a better idea of how to go about dealing with that.  Thanks for the extra input, though.

[Komandos]

I am always confused by the too high cost of soldiers in games. If tomorrow aliens attack the planet and begin to exterminate all of humanity, will none of the people stand up to protect the Earth if the government cannot pay huge fees to "volunteers"?

A mission to clean up a crashed UFO is always successful by default. (Bombing of the crash site). The meaning of the ground mission is only to capture artifacts and live aliens. There are no other reasons. The player cannot send more than 16 soldiers on a mission. Then what difference does it make how many soldiers there will be in the regiment at the base? Even if there are a thousand people at the military base, only 16 of them will go on a mission. The number of garrisons does not affect the balance of the game in any way. Then why not let the player have more soldiers?

[Alienkiller]

Original it was planed to make the Main-Base like in new X-COM, but that get canceled.

Maybe it will come like in UFO-ET-Series, where you have an similar Base-Buildup-Screen, but for Cost-Reduction the other Bases get limited (f. e. Research only, Production only or like originally Planed Fighter-Bases only [like in UFO-1-ET Original / Gold]).

An Mix from all 3 would be cool. We will see what comes. Many original Ideas we could test already In the previous Betas and the Ideas get in with Rework / Refit earlier and later.

An smaller, but similar way UFO 2 ET goes too, where you can build up Fighter-Upgrades in the Secundary-Bases. The difference to Xenonauts, Phoenix-Point and new X-COM is, that you aren’t limited atm (only Money).

Edited November 8, 2021 by Alienkiller