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XTC0r

Sidesteps in combat?

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I played Phantom Doctrine the last two days. And the community is very divided about the Line of sight and Line of fire combat system. In their system the target and attacker can always be seen on multiple tiles (5). For a better explanation see the reddit post and the link to their website with a detailed explanation. I'm not in favor of this system. How will Xenonauts 2 handle this? I think there are some pros and cons for the different variations. 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/PhantomDoctrine/comments/97xwjg/blog_post_about_the_phantom_wallhack_details_on/

Edited by XTC0r

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I don't think there is plan to implement auto-sidestep system that clear lof beyond the grid you are in.

 

I did ask for sidestep as a movement, however, which is another issue and I've heard of no plan to implement it either.

 

Edited by Sheepy

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We experimented with “leaning” around corners for a while and it was a nightmare in terms of the shooting mechanics.

As such I’m very reluctant to allow any form of sidestepping beyond potentially adding the ability for units to literally step sideways (i.e. move sideways but remain facing the same direction), and even that would complicate the control system more than I’m strictly comfortable with. Would be very handy near corners or doorways though.

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I was thinking about this problem and am fond of a "preserve current orientation" button. This would enable shield bearers to actually move around corners facing the right direction of potential incoming fire, among other uses. The balance would simply be a 1 TU cost increase in every movement while this button is activated, which should it make more costly than conventional movement.

I have already seen buggy versions of preserving orientation while moving in X1, but i have no clue on what it takes to code this into X2.

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On 8/21/2018 at 8:29 AM, Chris said:

As such I’m very reluctant to allow any form of sidestepping beyond potentially adding the ability for units to literally step sideways (i.e. move sideways but remain facing the same direction), and even that would complicate the control system more than I’m strictly comfortable with. Would be very handy near corners or doorways though.

OpenXcom implemented this by pressing <CTRL> while selecting target field, which just keeps orientation while moving. Is quite handy in the described cases ...

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So i'm late to the show but i think sidestepping is an important (essential maybe) mechanic in a "2 actions" system such as Firaxis XCOM but not in a TU system like Xenonauths where soldiers can move one tile away from cover, shoot and move back to cover. Being able to make those moves as actual "side" steps without changing orientation  however would be, as explained by Charon, extremely useful in some situations. A button to toggle fixed orientation or a modifier key are both valid options and i would advocate using both so players can use whatever works best for them but <ctrl> is already used so it has to be another one.

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On 11/26/2018 at 5:26 PM, Charon said:

I was thinking about this problem and am fond of a "preserve current orientation" button. This would enable shield bearers to actually move around corners facing the right direction of potential incoming fire, among other uses. The balance would simply be a 1 TU cost increase in every movement while this button is activated, which should it make more costly than conventional movement.

I have already seen buggy versions of preserving orientation while moving in X1, but i have no clue on what it takes to code this into X2.

 

On 11/28/2018 at 12:30 PM, MyThos said:

OpenXcom implemented this by pressing <CTRL> while selecting target field, which just keeps orientation while moving. Is quite handy in the described cases ...

Yeah, I think this might be a good idea actually - simplifies the control system down to something that's fairly understandable but still gives experienced players access to quite a useful tool. I didn't know that OpenXcom had implemented it either. We can't use Ctrl but yeah I'm sure we can find some button somewhere we can use.

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One thing occurs to me here - in openXCom, do they charge extra TU per tile for a sidestep move? I'm guessing so, otherwise you'd always want to do it because you'd end up saving a lot of TU when moving because your soldier isn't making "unnecessary" turns that they would normally have to make, right?

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This would also make sense from a logical PoV as moving sideways isn't exactly what our legs are made for. I think the amount of extra TUs per tile should be balanced so that moving 1-2 tiles this way saves you "time" (hopping to the side quickly would be faster than turning away, taking a single step and turning again) but moving several tiles this way costs you more (but might still be useful if you somehow expect to be shot and have a shield - not that i can imagine a situation where you want to move sideways from a visible alien, but i'm sure some players would find a good use to such a move)

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

One thing occurs to me here - in openXCom, do they charge extra TU per tile for a sidestep move? I'm guessing so, otherwise you'd always want to do it because you'd end up saving a lot of TU when moving because your soldier isn't making "unnecessary" turns that they would normally have to make, right?

Yes, the cost is +1-time-unit (from 4 to 5), as justified by "alienfood" who coded this feature:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=833.0

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Edited by Pave

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