[1.65/X.CE V0.35.0] X-Division 1.00 Beta (1.00.11c)

[Charon]

1 minute ago, PALU said:

I don't think the Andron Vivisection fits in, as that's basically taken care of by getting the Andron AI.

Aye.

1 minute ago, PALU said:

Harridan/Wraith Class analysis: I was trying to massage the existing texts to sort of make them fit and not be too incorrect, not replace them completely, which is what you suggest. The images doesn't really help that part either.

I will try a "complete conversion", but I expect there will be some holes in it that will be obvious to those who know things better than I do.

The point which i found to out of line was the description of things which were not encountered by the player yet ( Lore+ ). And then you go ahead and extrapolate that style to an even greater degree . What i actually wanted was to soften clarity on things which are not correct ( like the refitting of UOs ), and to remove things which the player hasnt encountered yet. So that is my goal. So yes, maybe a whole conversion is better.

Dont worry about knowledge you dont have. You have my knowledge at disposal and the whole community can help with the entries. We can all point out features we think are important.

[Charon]

@PALU Maybe you can simply write a new style entry for "Class Analysis" in the way you want it to ? Never mind what Lore+ wrote before that.

Edit: Here is a nice blooper:

Quote

Their armour can not be disassembled to provide us with 32 Light Fibres and and 16 Dense Fibres.

How sad .

Quote

The Xenomorph Empress is the untimate pinnacle

ultimate

Quote

Casesan

Caesan

Edited October 20, 2018 by Charon

[PALU]

Weapon Mass Production:

Furthermore, the xenoastronomy lab reports the alien armada appears to be busy refitting their craft for atmospheric flight. As we have seen ourselves, many small/medium craft are already here, as well as some larger ones (we can assume Terror Carriers were a priority). Expect to see gradually larger and more dangerous craft in the sky, Commander! They're definitely coming for us.

Wraith Class Analysis: (Assuming wraith interrogation + vivisection)

Commander, please talk to your men. If a test subject manages to breach quarantine the correct response is to subdue and restrain it until our specialists can get to the scene. It is most emphatically not to grab whatever is to hand and reenact the more bloody scenes from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, even if the subject does manage to teleport into the mess hall during chow time. When your brutes had finished there wasn’t enough left of the Wraith for tissue analysis.

The image attached to this report is largely based on impressions received from interrogations of a Wraith. The interrogations indicates a hierarchy exists within their ranks.

Well, on to more tangible facts, based both on interrogation and vivisection: What do we actually know about these creatures?

• First and foremost: They can "teleport". They frequently teleport into position and teleport out of danger.
• Teleportation leaves them temporarily disoriented, so fortunately, they can't teleport up behind a soldier for a back stab shot at point blank range. However, it seems they can fire and *then* teleport away.
• Don't expect Wraiths to walk through harmful clouds. Why walk when you can teleport?
• Wraiths rely on their teleportation ability more than their armour, which means they have exposed body parts. This makes them susceptible to Chemical damage (but they'll likely teleport away if not killed, as per the above).
• It seems Wraiths can teleport into buildings and remain lurking in hiding in there for some time. Don't assume buildings are clear because you have searched them!
• While Wraiths can't attack immediately after teleporting, they seem to try to teleport to locations that are out of view from our soldiers. We don't understand how they can know where everyone is looking, but they frequently do it. Thus, scan behind your troops before taking other actions.
• Teleportation allows Wraiths to reach locations they otherwise would not be able to reach. Thus, don't neglect to scan the third dimension: they may well lurk on roof tops and even on top of larger UFOs, not to mention behind windows in buildings.
• Wraiths are closely associated to Caesans. These two races are usually working together.
• Their acute situational awareness makes them highly resistant to suppression. This means using a shield to take reaction fire may be a wiser choice than trying to use shock grenades when attempting a capture.

Harridan Class Analysis: (Again assuming interrogation + vivisection)

After having interrogated and performed vivisection on a Harridan, we have some information and some speculation to provide.

Starting with the most speculative part, the interrogation indicates there are several ranks of Harridans, and the image above is an artist's impression of the interrogation results in that regard.

Moving on to what we think we actually know, we have drawn some conclusions:

• Harridans can fly. Their armour contains integrated jet packs, and the integration seems to go all the way into the brain, allowing them to fly as naturally as they walk.
• As a result of the previous point, Harridans have no problems firing weapons while flying.
• Airborne Harridans crash to the ground when "shot down", leaving no recoverable equipment or body. Thus, you can just as well use overkill when dealing with airborne Harridans, as we won't be able to recover anything anyway.
• While aliens in general have longer sight ranges than humans, Harridans have extremely good sight range, largely because on the visual enhancement systems integrated into their helmets, but also resulting from the large visual processing centers in their brains.
• Given the sight range of Harridans, it shouldn't come as a surprise that they seem to prefer to use long range weapons such as sniper rifles and cannons.
• Harridans are completely covered by their suits, and this leaves them resistant to Chemical weapons, as well as resistant to Stun gas.
• Harridans aren't gifted only with vision, but also with excellent reflexes. Reaction fire is a threat to our soldiers.
• Harridans seem to be working together with Androns and Sebillians; in particular the latter. They may well provide technical support for the former, and long range support fire for the latter.

[Svinedrengen]

1 hour ago, PALU said:

Furthermore, the xenoastronomy lab reports the alien armada appears to be busy refitting their craft for atmospheric flight. As we have seen ourselves, many small/medium craft are already here, as well as some larger ones (we can assume Terror Carriers were a priority). Expect to see gradually larger and more dangerous craft in the sky, Commander! They're definitely coming for us.

I believe the whole refitting subject is from the original lore, and doesnt fit with the alternative storyline Charon made for X-Division a while back that tells us why they come and the 4 phases in the game. 

@Charon can probably explain this much better. 

[PALU]

I've never really understood the phases at all from a logical perspective, and has filed it under the "don't ask about the logic category".

[Charon]

1 hour ago, PALU said:

• As a result of the previous point, Harridans have no problems firing weapons while flying.

They still need to stand on something.

Otherwise you NAILED it ! Congratulations.

 

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

I think some entries have been scrambled over time. There's one very late entry where you extract an Andron AI ("Skynet") and a much earlier entry where that AI signals being broken by the "torture" of isolation with Tetris. The AI should probably have been extracted from the earliest Andron boss analysis (i.e. usually Hub). If so, the AI itself would probably be the same in all Andron bosses, with the difference being the "bodies" they're hosted in (including their "brains"). I think the late entry doesn't actually do anything currently.

 

Yes, the AI thing is the basic idea but the entries scattered and scrambled everywhere after a while. If you want you can rewrite the whole idea.

Here are some points:

• You can start suggesting an AI with the hub unit.
• Ther terminal unit should be the "captured" AI
• with the controller unit the AI shhould start to "help" us a bit ( think force shield )
• The final mission is an alien base, which we need a fully capable AI to open the doors, so somewhere between controller and end mission we need to get some more "access"

Also recently i wrote this youtube comment.

Quote

The reason why terror dogs are carrying them ( or toxic weapons ) is that every terror dog is/was a terror andron soldier, transforming into a highly mobile dog. There is a lot of lore put behind that transforming stuff, but none of that is written yet.

If you want to write the lore for the androns here are some basic concepts:

• The basic idea is that robodogs and androns are transformers that can freely transform between these forms, under certain circumstances.
• While the andron unit is rather slow and dangerous, the robodog is rather fast but doesnt really have the "bite" to make up for it. The robodog form is rather a form of travel, or where movement trumps more damage ( like killing civs )
• Normal andron units cannot freely change their form, they dont have the energy for it. Pods inside dedicated andron UFOs can do this however.
• Terror androns are special in that regard that they can switch to 1 terror robodog or roboreaper after "destruction". The decision on which form to switch to depends on the battlefield situation and its detailed functions are unclear.

Maybe you can make something out of that.

 

A few lore points you can integrate if you want to:

• Everything above Leader Class aliens get directly commanded/controlled by Praetors, in one way or another. They can still let lower class units take command on an operation if they want to, but usually direct their troops directly, whether they are present in ground combat or not.

 

Am i giving you too much work ?

[PALU]

Do harridans have to stand on something? I've definitely gotten the impression they're firing from in flight, sometimes hovering in place for several rounds while firing, and finally go splat when shot down from their stationary position?

The Andron AI logic has the flaw that the current description describes it being tortured for an extended time before becoming useful, and that can really only happen if there's an extended time between its capture and the resultant research becoming available, unless, of course, you run the CPU at full speed, accelerating time.

It's certainly the case that "make sure Lore++ is correct" -> "rewrite from scratch" -> "and add this stuff" reeks of scope creep... I'll start/continue with the Lore++ rewrite. When done, I'll take a look at vivisection (there's a fair number of those entries), fixing spelling/typing and other minor issues along the line. Once done I'll consider additional stuff. You've seen the speed I work at, so it will take time.

[Charon]

16 minutes ago, PALU said:

Do harridans have to stand on something? I've definitely gotten the impression they're firing from in flight, sometimes hovering in place for several rounds while firing, and finally go splat when shot down from their stationary position?

Nope. They fly, land, shoot, and fly again.

16 minutes ago, PALU said:

It's certainly the case that "make sure Lore++ is correct" -> "rewrite from scratch" -> "and add this stuff" reeks of scope creep... I'll start/continue with the Lore++ rewrite. When done, I'll take a look at vivisection (there's a fair number of those entries), fixing spelling/typing and other minor issues along the line. Once done I'll consider additional stuff. You've seen the speed I work at, so it will take time.

Scope creep (also called requirement creep, or kitchen sink syndrome) in project management refers to changes, continuous or uncontrolled growth in a project’s scope, at any point after the project begins.[1] This can occur when the scope of a project is not properly defined, documented, or controlled. It is generally considered harmful.[2] It is related to but distinct from feature creep.

Ive read through the other entries, and i think they are fine. I completely dont have a problem with describing units in detail after the fact they are encountered/interrogated. Only the harridan/wraith ones were problematic. Ofcourse if you want to revise them and up the quality a bit im not going to stop you, just saying the quality standart is reached.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Charon

[Charon]

6 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:

I believe the whole refitting subject is from the original lore, and doesnt fit with the alternative storyline Charon made for X-Division a while back that tells us why they come and the 4 phases in the game. 

@Charon can probably explain this much better. 

6 hours ago, PALU said:

I've never really understood the phases at all from a logical perspective, and has filed it under the "don't ask about the logic category".

Its relatively easy to understand. Yes, the aliens need to refit their UFOs, however, the process is much faster than the original lore suggests.

The 4 Phases are easy to explain as well, its a vanilla lore point. The aliens are not enslaving humanity because humanity is actually that successfull in defending the planet, but rather because they try to see if there is genetic material on earth which is worth integrating into their own. X-Division is basically the Hunger Games for Xenonauts. Aliens sitting in a white room, pressing buttons to release the Roborex to see how Katniss Everdeen reacts to it. Every now and then they send some terror ships or base attacks and adjust the difficulty a bit up by releasing slightly better UFOs and troops. None of the war on Earth is EVER getting taken seriously. Maybe serious for humanity, but not for the Praetors.

 

 

On 10/20/2018 at 9:55 AM, Svinedrengen said:

About the vehicle issue, will they target vehicles if they also have opportunity to target hosts? Because that would feel a little wrong if they do, I dont really mind if vehicles is the only thing in its reach. 

Yes, that "little wrong" thing is the reason why its not in the base game. Its hard to say what the AI will be doing as we havent tested it, but it should react like the standart reaper AI, first for civilians/locals and then 50/50 for vehicles and troops ( by equal proximity ).

 

 

 

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

- Wraith Class Analysis: Would probably fit best with being triggered by any Wraith Interrogation. Would work with other phase 2 interrogations, though.

From Items.WraithOfficerCorpse(OR)Items.WraithWarriorCorpse to Researches.WraithVivisection.

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

- Harridan Class Analysis: Analogous with the Wraith one, but for Harridans, of course.

From Items.HarridanOfficerCorpse(OR)Items.HarridanWarriorCorpse to Researches.HarridanVivisection

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

Andron Class Analysis: Should probably be triggered by the Soldier or Server disassembly.

From Items.AndronSoldierCorpse to Researches.AndronSoldierDisassembly.

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

- Advanced Andron Class Analysis: Triggered by Elite or Terminal disassembly.

From Items.AndronWarriorCorpse(OR)Items.AndronEliteCorpse to Researches.AndronEliteDisassembly.

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

- Sebillian Non-Combatant Analysis: Interrogation of any Sebillian (and since the lower ones are unlocked by the capture of higher ones, I think the lowest tier is sufficient).

From Items.SebillianNonCombatantCorpse to Researches.SebillianAutopsy.

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

- Sebillian Class Analysis: Any phase 2 Sebillian interrogation.

From Items.SebillianSoldierCorpse to Researches.SebillianSoldierVivisection.

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

- Advanced Sebillian Class Analysis: Any Phase 4 Sebillian interrogation.

From Items.SebillianEliteCorpse(OR)Items.SebillianWarriorCorpse to Researches.SebillianEliteVivisection.

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

- Caesan Non-Combatant Analysis: Interrogation of any Caesan.

From Items.CaesanNonCombatantCorpse to Researches.CaesanAutopsy.

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

- Caesan Class Analysis: Any phase 2 Caesan interrogation.

From Items.CaesanSoldierCorpse to Researches.CaesanSoldierVivisection.

On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:

- Advanced Caesan Class Analysis: Any Phase 4 Caesan interrogation.

From Items.CaesanEliteCorpse(OR)Items.CaesanWarriorCorpse to Researches.CaesanEliteVivisection

Edited October 21, 2018 by Charon

[Charon]

Looks like we are blowing up. @Solver

We must have gotten featured somewhere, but i didnt find out where.

[Svinedrengen]

This is what I was refering to. It doesnt say anything about having to refit ships, although it doesnt say anything about not having to refit ships either, so yeah. I just dont think the refitting thing is... well it is not unbelieveable, but it is not very believeable either. I think the whole testing us more and more with the phases, to see if there is anything to learn and take from us Hu-Mans, is better simply put. And very cynical by the way, I like that.

 

On 10/21/2018 at 9:28 PM, Charon said:

Yes, that "little wrong" thing is the reason why its not in the base game. Its hard to say what the AI will be doing as we havent tested it, but it should react like the standart reaper AI, first for civilians/locals and then 50/50 for vehicles and troops ( by equal proximity ).

How about if I did something as simple as give them more TUs ? That shouldnt screw up something should it ? I would like them to be faster and more of a threat, than they are now. 

[Charon]

3 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:

How about if I did something as simple as give them more TUs ? That shouldnt screw up something should it ? I would like them to be faster and more of a threat, than they are now. 

Wouldnt fix anything.

[adriel]

hello charon been following xdivision pretty long now,

i want ti update from 0.99.44 to 1.00.00 (im not sure what version i download the last time, but when i check, i see 0.9.44 in launcher modding tools)

do i need to redownload 3 part file or just patch it?

 

[Charon]

55 minutes ago, adriel said:

hello charon been following xdivision pretty long now,

i want ti update from 0.99.44 to 1.00.00 (im not sure what version i download the last time, but when i check, i see 0.9.44 in launcher modding tools)

do i need to redownload 3 part file or just patch it?

 

Please read the installation instructions.

[Svinedrengen]

20 hours ago, Charon said:

Wouldnt fix anything.

Okay if it wont help, then I wont bother trying.

 

Did you change the xeno drones ? They seem to act differently, meaning they are actually attacking me now on sight, which is good, instead of coming close and then stop like before.

Edit : Oh you did improve the AI, I just read the description again, must have missed that part. It is certanly an improvment alright . 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Svinedrengen

[Charon]

7 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:

Okay if it wont help, then I wont bother trying.

Dont trust my words, try it out.

[Svinedrengen]

14 hours ago, Charon said:

Dont trust my words, try it out.

Alright I will try then. 

Changing the AI props in game will take effekt right ?

[PALU]

I've now updated the vivisection sections to cover what ought to be known unit info, and I've also tried to take on the "transformer" aspect of Androns. When doing that, I realized the entries on Andron Terror troop disassembly are dummies, as no "corpses" are generated, so I crammed the relevant info into the Robodog Terror Soldier, Warrior, and Roboreaper Terror Elite entries (if I've been able to understand aiprops correctly, the conversion is deterministic, and that is what an observer would report. I guess that if you wanted to "randomize" it you could have different sub classes spawn different boxes: there isn't really a way for observers to distinguish between different enemy roles, although long term analysis should eventually be able to tease out some relation between weapons and "corpses", but you probably need more samples than a phase provides to do that analysis, and I'm not sure it would be possible to use it for anything anyway).

I haven't tried to tackle the Andron AI. Doing that would require identifying every relevant entry (making sure none are missed), and try to sort them into an order of events, which would undoubtedly mess up research.

I would tie AI capabilities not to the AI itself, but to the processing equipment it has at its disposal. Thus, you can run it on a normal computer (at 1980 alien turbocharged speed, meaning slow as a snail on Valium in molasses, and with an super sized dose of suspension of disbelief), but it can't actually do much, even if hooked up to external equipment in the form of sensors and controls due to the computation limitations. Run it on pieces recovered from increasingly sophisticated Andron "bosses" and you can gradually do more as the AI can activate more of its program to still meet the real time deadlines, with the full power requiring both the "CPU" from a top Andron boss, as well as the control circuits (and a bit more, in the form of communications) that boss used to control doors, etc. Thus, all Androns would actually have the same AI, but it is throttled differently depending on the available hardware and role. Even the Andron Controller would be inferior to the hardware the original AI (before the lobotomy) was hosted on.

xenopedia.xml

[Charon]

9 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:

Changing the AI props in game will take effekt right ?

The main X-Division one, yes, should.

4 hours ago, PALU said:

When doing that, I realized the entries on Andron Terror troop disassembly are dummies, as no "corpses" are generated,

Hm ... now that you say that it indeed sounds something like an oversight. I can make the dogs drop the andron corpse too. Would that tie into the game ok-ish ?

[Charon]

[Charon]

7 hours ago, PALU said:

I haven't tried to tackle the Andron AI. Doing that would require identifying every relevant entry (making sure none are missed), and try to sort them into an order of events, which would undoubtedly mess up research.

Why would it mess with the research ? Ofcourse there are dozent of minor contradictions or possible contradictions based on the order of research. But what if a player never gets a server or a terminal, and goes straight to the controller AI ? That doesnt make sense. So in order to fix that we would 1. need to tie higher level research to lower level research, in order to have control over things and 2. make higher level drops unlock lower level research when lower level drops are no longer available. You could say we could do that, but i personally think that would mess with the independence of research feeling. Why do you have to first research lower level entries when the higher ones are directly in front of your nose ? And it also doesnt really simulate time quite well when you research hub, server and terminal units in one go and the entries state "months have passed". So in order to preserve the gameplay feeling ( which is the highest priority ) there doesnt seem to be a feasable solution to simulate "time" and "effort" in Xpedia entries. Maybe Xpedia entries where "time" plays a role is misguided in the first place ? Dunno. Maybe you can make something out of it, or change something up.

Quote

exected

expected

Quote

We still struggle to see the purpose of the Roboreaper form, though.

Explanation:

Quote

1:35:00 Are the roboreapers to your tastes now ? With ranged weapons their smoke actually protects them for the turn and thuse make you see ( and deal ) with every roboreaper stage possible. From ranged supporter to melee killer you will have to make a plan for what is best for your situation. The ranged weaponry has mitigation abilities paried with low emp/stun and saps TUs from your soldier if it hits. This makes it dangerous to your vehicle as well as your soldiers. Not the powerhourse of the andron race the roboreaper is an expendable scout with personal shield and smoke generator to stay alive as long as possible while giving real time battlefield intel to harder hitting units. These abilities make it into an excellent scout/support unit on the battlefield.

As mentioned they are scout/support units on the field, as well the only unit which actually has a viable stun option. Not that that is necessary for androns, but its nice to have the option for it.

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Charon

[PALU]

Andron AI path:

As far as I've found (I may still have missed entries), the following entries are involved (or logically can be):
- Andron Computer
- Andron Intel
- Guardian armor (that's where I've found the lamp blinking, well before being set up by Andron Intel)
- Andron Hub, Server, Terminal, and Controller Disassembly (and the last one claims we need an intact Controller, which I think is incorrect and can't happen?)

I would change this by keeping research unchanged (or, optionally, mostly unchanged) and adjust the texts:
- Andron Hub Disassembly (and higher ones) unlocks Andron Computer and indicates the presence of an AI.
- Andron Computer confirms the presence of an AI and manages to run it on HW recovered from an (intentionally unspecified) Andron boss.
- Andron Server Disassembly claims to manage to run the AI on the Server HW (ideally an automatic or short time research holds that text [which might not do anything but provide flavor, but could take over the places where disassembly + Andron Computer is a prerequisite], depend on Server Disassembly + Andron Computers, but players skipping the rather important Andron Computer research can probably live with an inconsistent description).
- Andron Terminal Disassembly would be treated in the same way as the Server.
- Andron Controller -> Andron Intel as currently, but with adjusted descriptions (and no indication of time).
- Scrub the blinking light from the Guardian armor.

It can be noted that there isn't anything in the texts currently about needing an AI for alien base access (or I've failed to find it), and unless I've misread the research dependencies, Andron Intel isn't required for the end game: it seems to "only" open up some equipment? If such a dependency is set up, I'd probably have Pre Operation Endgame request the AI as well as the Psionic.

Non existent Andron Terror corpses:

I think I've compensated for that loss in the latest texts, but you'd still miss out on the combat bonus. Dropping both corpses would make absolutely no sense if the units are one and the same, so if the corpses need to be restored I'd suggest making some terror unit roles "flawed" so they die rather than turn into a box (unless there's a way to give box conversion a 90% or so chance, with a 10% chance of death).

[Charon]

22 hours ago, PALU said:

I would change this by keeping research unchanged (or, optionally, mostly unchanged) and adjust the texts:

Research and the Xpedia are 2 totally different development entities in X-Division and dont have anything to do with each other. Research won´t change, the Xpedia content will always have to  be the one to get adapted, unless there are gamepaly reasons to change the research tree.

Other than that if you think you can make higher quality entries than currently present you can go ahead and change them to your liking. I guess you will have to look at the rsearch itself which can logically follow after each other. Personally i would just set the order to what a normal playthrough would lead to. There will always be unaccountable research paths in minor cases, nothing we can effectively do about that.

22 hours ago, PALU said:

It can be noted that there isn't anything in the texts currently about needing an AI for alien base access (or I've failed to find it), and unless I've misread the research dependencies, Andron Intel isn't required for the end game: it seems to "only" open up some equipment? If such a dependency is set up, I'd probably have Pre Operation Endgame request the AI as well as the Psionic.

Well, yeah. The andron AI opening up the the final base was purely a lore point, and we didnt implement any research conditions for it. If there would have been conditions, it would have most likely have been roborex ones, and in retrospect im happy about not implementing that.

About implementing that now. There are too many connections and text connected to the endgame content so i would need to change quite a lot, which i won´t. So since there are no hard research conditions you can either put that under the things which never got realised, or purely add some lore flavour to it.

22 hours ago, PALU said:

I think I've compensated for that loss in the latest texts, but you'd still miss out on the combat bonus. Dropping both corpses would make absolutely no sense if the units are one and the same, so if the corpses need to be restored I'd suggest making some terror unit roles "flawed" so they die rather than turn into a box (unless there's a way to give box conversion a 90% or so chance, with a 10% chance of death).

Nope, the code doesnt work like that.

I think dropping both corpses would make sense if you say the robodogs store some additional ( unused ) andron parts after the transformation. From a gameplay experience i think the player should get both resources because he killed both units. But im split on how to do this.

 

I think thats it for now. Would be nice if we had some robodog disassembly pictures, but alas, we dont.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Charon

[PALU]

I've updated the xenopedia to cover the Andron AI.

I also suspect the condition for Caesan Data Hack 8 is incorrect: "Researches.CaesanOperatorAssault1Interrogation" should probably have a "3" rather than a "1".

I'm also having a bit of a problem with one gameplay logic: If you're too successful in shooting down/raiding landed UFOs you won't get any small or medium bases, with their associated research benefits. This is on top of the issue with base establishment being fairly rare missions, so out of the 6 missions I've had 3 were Caesan and the other 3 were blasted Andron ones, but no Sebillians in sight (and I deliberately did allow two to become outposts: the first one to gain the rather important equipment research you get, and the second one in the hope the Andron landing ship crew would build a base crewed by aliens you could interrogate. but no: they built an Andron controlled base).

xenopedia.xml

Edited October 27, 2018 by PALU

[Charon]

1 hour ago, PALU said:

I also suspect the condition for Caesan Data Hack 8 is incorrect: "Researches.CaesanOperatorAssault1Interrogation" should probably have a "3" rather than a "1".

Nice Catch ! Real good one. Fixed.

1 hour ago, PALU said:

I'm also having a bit of a problem with one gameplay logic: If you're too successful in shooting down/raiding landed UFOs you won't get any small or medium bases, with their associated research benefits. This is on top of the issue with base establishment being fairly rare missions, so out of the 6 missions I've had 3 were Caesan and the other 3 were blasted Andron ones, but no Sebillians in sight (and I deliberately did allow two to become outposts: the first one to gain the rather important equipment research you get, and the second one in the hope the Andron landing ship crew would build a base crewed by aliens you could interrogate. but no: they built an Andron controlled base).

Yeah, thats definitely an issue. Playing the best can sometimes hurt you more than it does good.

We tried to tackle the issue by giving them a 40% chance to spawn better escorts, and a 10% chance to spawn "impossible" escorts. Still this doesnt distract from the fact you can fairly easily raid them when they are landing. Nothing we can do about that. The "proper" solution would be to make something unbeatable build a base. But that is not really how we initially envisioned base construction missions to be. In the end this is just the ARMA syndrome, if you give the player a maximum of choices than statistically they are bound to get things wrong. Either we give the player the choice to mess up, or we dont. There is really no inbetween here.

Edit: We could also make special construction mission UFOs which carry alien base equipment and base operators as it logically should be. But thats an insane mountain of work which occurs too late into the development. No game is perfect, but some are pretty good.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Charon