X-DIVISION New Mod, New Ideas, New Disscussions

[drages]

more variants are good when there is a clear purpose for them other than "for fun". I guess this is what you meant by saying "need a scenario to put them in action"

yep exactly.. i thought for melee weapons.. at sudden close counters, a fast, deadly weapon to use when u dont have much TU left.. so i could give it much mitigation (to similate to attack the open places at alien armor (like attacking to neck)).. but then u start to use only melee weapons heh... even i thought throwing knifes.. batman style.. with a bat suit.. sideeffects of creating about 100 weapons...

[radek]

Additional problem is the game structure. In games such as Jagged Alliance for example player keep finding new weapons so in other words we can say that game is giving the player random weapons from time to time. Player has to choose for example when it is better to save ammo for future or spend it now.

In Xenonauts player is responsible for all weapons purchases which means that no one will buy and use something less effective.

[podbelski]

there is no need for a hurry

looks like you have already made such a big addition the whole community will struggle balancing it for months ))

I'd be glad to help you, and expect to eventually take part in polishing it, but atm I'm totally busy with geoscape part rebalance.

[drages]

there is no need for a hurry

looks like you have already made such a big addition the whole community will struggle balancing it for months ))

I'd be glad to help you, and expect to eventually take part in polishing it, but atm I'm totally busy with geoscape part rebalance.

Thank you.. but even your hard work is helping because i realy dont have any idea about that part of the game as modding.. u will take the skies and hopefully i will get the ground..

When we get together, this game will be never the same..

I start to give new toys to the aliens and it works for now without problem..

[radek]

Good luck & have fun guys cant wait for this mod.

[TacticalDragon]

I agree with Radek, melee weapons is not necesary. In other hand add more layers of the same Pistol/Shotgun/Rifle/Sniper/Machinegun is waste of time. I strongly believe that making unique weapons fit better to Sci-Fi gener. If you remember the original XCOM the laser weapons behave completetly different from ballistic and plasmas.

Add more of the same is ... not original at all. Maybe we can desing weapons like "Dread Laser Cannon"?

[podbelski]

yep it annoyed me a lot when I knew what MAG weapons will be even before researching them for the 1st time. Of course it is a pistol-shotgun-rifle-precision-MG combo...

Kabill has made a mod with quite a different approach to weapon sets, I haven't tried it out but even from descriprion I feel that I like it. "Extended armories" is the name I think.

going back to "Before the fall", maybe it's better to drop some weapons from AD/AP pairs? E.g. make an AP plasma shotgun and AD plasma flamer (so there is no AD plasma shotgun)? And plasma precision will come only in AP variant? etc

[drages]

yep it annoyed me a lot when I knew what MAG weapons will be even before researching them for the 1st time. Of course it is a pistol-shotgun-rifle-precision-MG combo...

Kabill has made a mod with quite a different approach to weapon sets, I haven't tried it out but even from descriprion I feel that I like it. "Extended armories" is the name I think.

going back to "Before the fall", maybe it's better to drop some weapons from AD/AP pairs? E.g. make an AP plasma shotgun and AD plasma flamer (so there is no AD plasma shotgun)? And plasma precision will come only in AP variant? etc

At the very first X-Com there are "pistol-rifle-heavy" per laser and plasma.. but ballistic had handcannon and minigun.. i always liked them.. I always liked handcannon and miniguns..

I didn't stuck at Xenonauts weapon types.. I didnt touch mostly the vanilla weapons but for example i made laser carbine, a continiues laser weapon and plasma carbine became a hand cannon.. AP weapon tiers are more special..

Every tear will have 3-5 surprize weapon.. that weapons will be that tiers best weapons with more special aspects, like TD's mentioned XNT's laser cannon.. and this weapons will change your GC tactics.. they will be very expensive and will need many loots.. so you will fight for them..

VERY SADLY Xenonauts ammo coding is the games maybe the laziest part.. i can accept some limitations at a game ofcourse but not allowing multi ammo at a X-Com game is unacceptable.. for this reason "hand cannon" creating is not so eximent..

[drages]

UPDATE:

- New Enemy weapons assigned to enemies.. Now aliens got not only energy weapons..

-Ceasan: They now own the alien plasma technology. They got stun weapons to catch u and make funny things with your body when you are alive..

-Sebillians: They are tough guys and tough guys use balistics.. yes they got kinetic weapons and chemical weapons.. at later their chemical weapons starts to hurt (at my tests i saw they hurt at beginning too..)

-Androns: Terminators can have the future, time mashine, knowladge of human biology, unlimited resourses but they never stop to use miniguns.. so Androns act like all 2 legged robotic anti human AI and they use kinetic miniguns and cannons.. but later they get their fancy energy weapons..

-Haridans: As androns helpers, they got very good energy sniper/cannon support with some chemical mix.. they die faster, so kill them faster..

-Wraiths: Ceasans gave the ultimate energy weaponary to them and they are tough too.. run...

------

- I nearly finished adding the unique weapons to all tiers.. including long range pistols, dual/quad rocket launchers, reaction fire snipers, stun shotguns..

- Every tier got about 15-20 weapons now.. i need to assign to armours and need to make tooltips.. without tooltips you cant use this mod.. How will i put about 80 our, 25 alien weapon to the research/manufacture line, question is a mistery..

[ventuswings]

I personally hate melee weapon"s", but this is not constructive feedback

[drages]

I personally hate melee weapon"s", but this is not constructive feedback

yes it is.. i wont add any..

[drages]

UPDATE:

-All human weapons added.. my god.. i dont wanna see any weapon adding code for a while...

Total Weapons with vanilla and new:

Ballistic: 20

Lasers: 24

Plasmas: 20

MAGs: 18

NEED TOOLTIP WRITER!!!!

[radek]

I'm impressed by how hard you work. You are the only person in your squad right? We in Poland work hard as well not like the rest of the lazy Europe - HA HA HA - joke

Idea looks great and what is very important - you defiantly have some overall (and good!) vision of how to put all the pieces together. Is hard to judge at this point cause as we all now "the devil’s in the detail" but it looks great.

Keep up the good work and don't lose hope.

[drages]

I'm impressed by how hard you work. You are the only person in your squad right? We in Poland work hard as well not like the rest of the lazy Europe - HA HA HA - joke

Idea looks great and what is very important - you defiantly have some overall (and good!) vision of how to put all the pieces together. Is hard to judge at this point cause as we all now "the devil’s in the detail" but it looks great.

Keep up the good work and don't lose hope.

Thx radek.. yeah i am alone.. but kabill and max are answering my questions and their mods will complate my plans..

I played this games for years and i am a navy officer too.. so maybe my vision is good for this reason.. i am someone who leaves everything if get bored.. so i need to finish before i get bored .. and i want to play the game as soon as possible..

As you said, the details are very important.. i am someone who likes visuals.. so to find the best weapon images and make them to fit into the game, i gave much time.. but i am happy with result..

I will sit and brainstorm the research/manufacture line..

anyway.. when i try to set up the unique weapons to tiers, i put some of them from tier 4 to tier 3 to make them usable much more time..

[radek]

I just noticed that u have quite a lot weapons. It might be hard to balance them out.

I'm worried about 2 things:

a) overlapping between tiers especially in case of laser and plasma. For example advanced laser being just simply better than basic plasma. Its almost like a one looooong Tieeeer.

b) mag weapons are "special" as they are - they are late game weapons - player is usually dead or overpowered at this moment. Also you have so many weapons that probably, i guess, research tree will have to be significantly extended. Am I right? Otherwise with this amount of stuff i bet someone will just have to skip a Tier or two not because its unbalanced but just to the fact that its simply impossible to keep up with new weapons coming out.

[drages]

Your points are very wise.. let me explain my current solution idea..

1. Yes there will be tons of new researchs and manufactures.. Enemy got many weapons to research.. And same for us..

2. For 1., the game will be slower then vanilla and total research times will be lower.. maybe about 3/4 of before.. ofcourse you wont able to finish them all..

3. MAGs wont be end game.. now think about damage types not as tiers.. main damage types are energy and kinetic.. you will have 2 tier of them.. for example: energy --> laser-plasma, lasers--> red laser (AD),blue laser(AP),specials(laser cannon, reaction sniper, faster pistol...)..

I will continiue soon.. need to go to work

[drages]

Let's continue

So as I said before enemies got every kind of weapons. You will have alien energy kinetic and chemical weapons from start. So if u go for kinetic you will get adv. Kinetic weapons.. but u need armour Penetration weapons. You will have choises about continuing to normal adv. Kinetic or pass to ap line. Then u will choose to ap line. You can go for Mags nearly without touching energy research. . But u will see that even with ap kinetics there will be enemies u can't kill in time... it's hard to explain with my plain English. .

Even u will get new kinetics with energy research. . And this will create the unique weapons.. but as u asked, an adv. Kinetic weapon tier special weapon won't be better then any Mag. So an adv laser won't be powerful from the first plasma. But but but plasmas are heavy short range weapons.. u will choose to use ur adv laser weapons if I wish..

I will make unit capacity of the transporters more.. probably +2. So when u have a vehicle u won't suffer any penalty. Because vehicles will save ur soldiers.. I nearly didn't use a shield or vehicle at vanilla even XNT. . So this time u will need both..

80 weapons 20 grenade 10 rockets new shields and more vehicle combinations.. enemy weapon reverse engineering.. more screams..

This will be like an expansion.. more balance will come with play ofcourse.. I will make balance update maybe per 2 3 days..

[Alienkiller]

Hi Hi folks.

Drages I think you mean this Mod which is in Producing state. Is this an Upgrade of XnT or a complete new one? I haden´t time to read it complete (only the first site), but what you wrote on there sounds good.

[drages]

Hı alien. As short it will be totally overhauled GC battle research manufacture with xmt s ai and kabill ufo mods.. read the updates.. u will like it..

[TacticalDragon]

Mainly is the proggresion of XNT, remember that XNT is not only the AI, is a compilation of multiple players work Aircrafts, Weapons, Rule System, Enemy Reactivity and Proggression.

XNT - Before The Fall is a official expansion directed and produced by Drages.

^^

[Shawn042]

I like the idea of continuing this game's growth. We, the community, waited to many years for this game to have it die out now. Let us keep it going and constantly evolving.

We might end up with something that is awe inspiring. I can assist you in story telling, lore, editing, some coding but my C++ is rusty. I can edit code and fix it better then I can create it. lol.

Let me know and perhaps I can assist you in this endeavor. I love what Chris, Kabill and the crew have done. Let us be the next major mod that they play and go "Wow, that was really fun!"

[TacticalDragon]

Actually XNT has lot of time running and we reach V6.

^^

[drages]

I like the idea of continuing this game's growth. We, the community, waited to many years for this game to have it die out now. Let us keep it going and constantly evolving.

We might end up with something that is awe inspiring. I can assist you in story telling, lore, editing, some coding but my C++ is rusty. I can edit code and fix it better then I can create it. lol.

Let me know and perhaps I can assist you in this endeavor. I love what Chris, Kabill and the crew have done. Let us be the next major mod that they play and go "Wow, that was really fun!"

As I understand, you want to help this mod. If it's I can cry now. I need a tool tip and ufo Pedia writer now. First tooltips.. info about weapons at equip screen like vanilla.

If u can help me about it I would be very happy..

[drages]

UPDATE:

- I checked the magnum nauts.. and its a crazy mod but the modder is more crazy.. i saw his excel charts and i loved them.. its the best way to see the total picture and balance.. so i created my own excel chart about GC weapons.. it took 3 days with rebalancing..

-The tiers are now totally created.. so:

Ballistic: Tier 1.5: NextGen and Needle...... Tier 4: MAGs and Gauss

Energy: Tier 2: Intense Laser and Focused Laser....... Tier 3: Plasma and Wave

Chemical: Tier 1: Injector.... Tier 2: Biological..... Tier 3: Radiological.... Tier 4: Hybrid

As special weapons: Heavy pistols, auto pistols, heavy/stun shotguns, multishot miniguns, reaction snipers, handcannons, electroshock weapons, multi fire rocket launchers..

[radek]

Omg... so many weapons, I am really scared about the purposefulness of all these weapons... I remembered that in the XNT (where we had, lets say, 8 weapons per Tier) I had a big problem with choosing correct weapon without having this strange feeling "what the hell is the dfirrence?!".