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  1. They've been working on the new UI for a looong time, and frankly i had no problems with an old one and always thought of the "much needed" change as a little bit strange. Do you think it was a needed change or do you think that it would've been better if the manhours were spent improving other aspects of the game?
  2. Don't get me wrong, I really like this game. But while I initially liked all the improvements in the ground combat, the more I play it the more I dislike it, to the point of now finding it worse than the combat in the OG. It's not that it would be bad as such, but I find several issues which make me see the ground combat as much worse than it could be. As I'm fairly new to the game, I'd like to check which of these are intentional, which are known/unknown bugs and which are just me still thinking a bit in terms of the OG. To give you a picture, I occassionally still play the OG even nowadays and I can handle quite easily even Superhuman with xcomutil's altered research (which noticeably prolongs the time before getting armor or plasma weapons). In Xenonauts I play veteran (the plan is to eventually try playing insane, but forced Ironman makes testing hard), I can take down about 4 out of 5 UFOs that I detect and in ground missions I have like 1 casuality per 4-5 missions. I've never really gotten past November as I restarted several times for various reasons. I can't quite give just a short description as it's several problems that all seem related to each other, but I'll try not to make it too long (and I'll leave out the few problems that I don't find so serious that can be kept separate). Aliens are way too passive and although they come across as intelligent they in fact perform worse than the dumb OG aliens. In short, the game feels like turkey shooting rather than desperately fighting off an evil alien menace. Most of the time aliens stay put in cover or run around like chicken and don't even shoot back much. In the OG the aliens just walked some path, if they saw a soldier, they started shooting, then retreated and repeated the same the next turn. Once one gets the hang of it, it's not that hard to beat them, but they still feel dangerous, because they keep shooting if they can, and they can show up somewhere out of sudden. But I don't get this much in Xenonauts: If I keep my soldiers in cover, they almost don't get fired at. I think the AI maybe computes the chance to hit as too low and decides it's better to do nothing at all, rather than at least give it a shot (pun intended ). So I can snipe a Harridan with a precision rifle with just one soldier with a normal rifle, if the soldier is in cover. Or a soldier behind a picket fence can, after several turns, kill an alien behind a rock, even though the alien could wipe out the soldier's cover quickly. The only time aliens at least somewhat fire back is reaction fire (which I guess is automatic). Aliens pretty much don't move during fight in any way that'd matter. I first thought it was because my battle line wasn't giving them much choice, but I even tried with the in-game editor and if I put two soldiers behind cover and next to them 2 'aggressive' aliens behind their cover, they'll just mostly sit there and take the beating until they die. The most absurd case of this I had was when I encountered a group of 2 Sebillians behind a rock and 3 Sebillians inside a building behind a window, and spent more than 20 turns with almost everybody in my squad firing at them until they all finally died. I don't know how the AI works and how much can be realistically expected of AI, so I don't know how difficult it can be to make them flank me, split up or whatever, but they should have done at least something. One exception to not moving seems to be when inside UFOs - there aliens just run back and forth (and mostly don't fire). My soldiers can stand outside, use e.g. a shield and flashbang to take a peek, unload all they can and step aside again. If there's a suitable cover near the (light or normal) scout entrace, I can put somebody there and wait until reaction fire wears down everybody inside. [*]Alien stats seem to be needlessly high. Ok, I play on veteran and aliens have a technological edge, but on the other hand I start against supposedly non-combatants, and moreover the high stats feel more like nuisance rather than threat. This is probably just because the AI doesn't handle the case well, as described above, but the high stats just make sniping passive aliens behind cover take needlessly long. I don't really care how much beating the aliens needs to take, I can usually deliver it one way or another, it's just that from a certain point up it doesn't make any difference. Saving TUs for reaction fire seems to be pointless. I don't think I've seen a single or pair of soldiers even stop an aliens from doing whatever it was about to do, unless it had already been softened up. In the OG saving TUs made sense, because it was possible to kill an alien on a comparable level with one or two shots, even a Superhuman Sectoid could die after a single hit from a standard rifle. It wasn't nowhere certain, but it was a fair chance, good enough to bother with saving TUs. Here, what's the point, if even the fraillest Caesan cannot be stopped by the supposedly powerful sniper rifle? Reapers are terrible, but for the wrong reasons. They can take so much damage that they need either a load of explosives or at least half the squad firing at them. Which means that once a Reaper zombifies a single soldier, it's time to run, even zombies are so tough that there doesn't seem to be a good way to stop it. Actually, there is one and that's abusing the AI. Since Reapers run straight for soldiers, it's enough to stay around the Chinook whenever Reapers are suspected, wait for them several turns and put them down (the remaining aliens, as already said above, will not really interfere). It was scary the first time Reapers got me, but I can't how I could be scared again - from now on I expect to be either annoyed or upset, depending on whether I manage to kill them during the first rounds or not, and after that I'll know the area is clear of them. The Chrysalid, which wandered on the map, felt like a bigger threat despite being weaker (especially in the zombie form), and I'd find Reapers much more scary if they could show up anywhere, even if they'd be noticeably easier to kill. Thinking of it, it's possible that I would find the high alien stats less of a problem if I advanced my soldier weapons sooner, but if I can usually do the job with ballistics, I don't feel compelled to do so. Especially given that manufacturing weapons feels so time and resource expensive (or maybe at least the time problem is a bug - laser rifle reportedly needs 40 man hours but actually needs 40 man days). [*]I often feel understaffed during ground missions. Maybe 8 soldiers do the job for players who somewhat carelessly walk towards the UFO and play on difficulty where they can get away with it, but I like sweeping the battlefield properly. Farm or desert are easy, but e.g. middle east or especially industrial are way too complex maps. Given that aliens are so tough, I don't want to send anyone without backup, so I sometimes have even to resort to leaving somebody watching a chokepoint and having most of my squad running back and forth, making the missions needlessly long. I can't quite imagine to bring the scout car with the squad and have only 6 soldiers (HWPs are the mainstay of my force in the OG and here I don't even bother researching them). Or, if the aliens managed it, have several soldiers killed and finish the mission with a smaller number - it's not enough to clear the map, and it's not enough to breach any UFO and have back covered at the same time. I remember from the demo that there the Chinook could carry 10 soldiers, so I expect this was reduced for some reason, but I don't know why. If it was in order to make the game feel faster, then it actually makes it slower for me. And, by the way, I'd actually like it a lot if the aliens managed like 1-2 kills on average per mission, to give them the right feel. So I'd much rather have a few more soldiers and aliens capable enough to wipe some of them rather than require almost perfect play which would be nothing like the desperate fight it's supposed to be. There are few more things I don't like about the ground combat (maps feel rather repetitive, grenades always blow up everything upon kill despite being actually weak), but they are nowhere near as bad as these, and I think this is already long enough. Now, is there anything in the list above which seems incorrect for some reason, hard to do, me doing something wrong, being intentionally different from the OG, or similar? I've seen some of these problems pointed at in various places in the forums, so I think I'm not the only one. The game shows a lot of promise, so I hope, if it's agreed that these things are problems, that these could be balanced/fixed.
  3. Here is a list of things that are need to be fixed. 1. Vehicles need their time units restored. One shot per turn with hunters sucks. My tanks wind up being scouts that get killed every mission because by the time I can see an alien I'm out of TP and killed on the aliens turn. You pretty much cant Move and shoot in the same turn. 2. Bring back the Riot shield at new game. The stun rod is now useless because you cant get that close to Aliens without a shield. I used to have a soldier carry 2 riot shields and lob C4 packs or use 2 shields and then smack the aliens with the stun rod. 3. Change the money system back to the way it was On my current play through I'm dead broke. I have 1 base, and I don't have any money to by any upgrades. I cant shoot down anything other than small ships. Payroll is killing me each month. $200,000 for an extra lab is crazy. 4. Bring back the floating Damage indicators I have no idea of how much or how little I hurt an alien, or if my soldiers took a bad hit or a baby hit. 5. Reduce cost of Hunter tanks back to $50,000 I always have 3 hunters for when my base gets attacked, but $100,000 a piece bankrupted me. 6. More small or very small alien ships needed I cant afford ship upgrades and the only ships spawning are large or heavy fighters. Add in more small ships like it was before, so I can do some missions earn money and pick up items to sell. 7. Electric shock grenades still do nothing I hit an Android with 3 shock grenades, nothing and blasted my guys to pieces on the follow up round. 8. Frag Grenades and Alemium grenades got nerffed too much I'm carrying 40% Smoke grenades, 40% stun grenades, and 20% actually grenades - Fine if your fighting organics, but I had a mission with all Androids, and I got ripped to pieces. 9. Alien shotgun no sound and insane distance. The Alien "Shotgun" shoots halfway across the map with a huge spread - its not even close to fair. 10. Aliens Line of Sight needs a major nerf ASAP. I have to send my Hunter tank in as a scout just to find aliens, and then it gets ripped to pieces. 11. Aliens are shooting right through my smoke grenades Ridiculously unfair - it almost seems broken. Things I like and should stay: 1. Stun grenades and Stun rockets power boost. 2. Selling new items for cash. 3. Allied ground forces in Terror missions actually kill aliens ! 4. Increased grenade range !
  4. First of all, let me say how much I love the game. You've done an amazing job of modernizing the classic, and keeping a similar feel to the game... something many have tried before, and not come close. My comments below are not complaints, just things I noticed that either seemed odd, or didn't work as intended. I mention them only in the hopes of improving the final product. In no particular order: Lights - Night missions are notoriosly more difficult than day time missions, but without any form of lights to throw around, the aliens have a much greater advantage, as they seem to be unhindered in the dark. In fact, from my experiences so far, they seem to be MORE accurate in the darkness... but this could just be bad luck for the soldiers under my command. Ship Lights - The drop ship should have low level lights. After my troops leave the craft, it is very unnerving to forget where your ship is located, in case things go horribly wrong and you need to run. Having low level lights would give you an anchor for exploring in the darkness. Explored Areas - Again in darkness, it would be great if you could get a grey silloutte outline of areas you have explored, that you can no longer view. It makes sense that you cannot see it so see the aliens, but the buildings and bushes are not going to move when out of sight. If this doesn't make sense, ask me and I'll try to explain better. Menu Selection - The selection of anything on a menu is very tight, and I find myself constantly fighting with the interface to select what I want. Automatic Research - It's very odd to automatically perform autopsies when all of my scientists are busy researching something else. Manufacturing Expenses - I found myself strapped for cash, and thought to churn out some armor to sell... since I am making the product, there should be profit in selling the finished item... but in fact, I can only sell for half of the production cost right now. I think they need to negotiate a better deal. As it stands, it makes no sense that it is cheaper for my engineers to sit around doing nothing, paid, rather than produce extra items for sale if they have free time. Moving Behind Objects - When initially moving behind buildings, or objects, you currently have to click blindly. Once your trooper is behind the object, the object fades so you can see what you are doing. It would be helpful if the object faded while planning a route there, so you can see what you are doing. Staircases & Elevation Change - Elevation changes seems a little confusing, mainly inside a UFO. It isn't clear where there are walls, or open space... aliens shoot at you from outside the ship when you are inside... etc. With stair cases in buildings, troopers climb up without a problem by changing elevation level. But when they come down, it's possible to walk through the stairs rather than around them. Medi-Kits - This is very confusing. The cost in TU is not accurate, and the TUs actually spent match the HP healed. There is no information on how many bleed icons are present on a trooper, nor is there feedback to say you healed one of them. I was using a first aid kit on a seriously wounded soldier and the first three times I used it, I cleared a wound and did not heal at all. The only information I was presented with was that I was spending TUs and the trooper was not getting healed. That's it for now. Keep up the amazing work guys. I'm completely addicted, and thank you for that -Arabin
  5. Well i have to say that this version 7 is quantum leap for the game. At least for those who only play insane. Flares works in a smart way now, The shooting accuracy seem to mean something that works, The Alien AI is awesome; Shield and Armor, at least looks to be working right, Smoke (but it could be that it worked before like that) now work fine almost perfect. Loved the fact that the people die, the worst the new recruits are. The hidden movement is working properly again this was extremely irritating (to me) Best patch for the players senci i ve following the game. Tips: While trying to aim trought smoke gain a 90% or 100% penalty, not that the smoke will stop the bullet, but you are merely spraying and praying. It would still hit something the same way when you aim on the ground behing the alien bullet can still hit the alien. Aliens Ai: I hope some day they will be able to get in and get out of the ufo. I hope some day they will be able to regroup But i ve seen aliens do stuff very awesome. Seek cover, flee and come back shooting, I hope they ll have nades soon. World map interface. A place with the state of our planes GTG (green) and Grounded(red) with hours lacking to be GTG would be awesome, right now its clumsy. Id like to see stuffs in the belt taking less timeto use than in the backpack. If its already so, forget this.
  6. Hi everyone, I've been very excited about this game since I read about it over a year ago but put off buying it yet because I wanted to play the finished game and couldn't trust myself with having access to the alpha and latterly the beta. My question is should I give in to the temptation and play the beta now or should I wait patiently for the finished game in all its splendor? GoatFetishBob
  7. ViniJones

    VJs rant on 19.6

    Sup, this thread is here to satisfy my urge to share my story with the world, not much more. It is long, if you dont wanna read it, your loss. If you get any ideas from here and use them, great! If you dont like any ideas from here, go screw yourself. If I make you smile even for a second, then it was worth it. Here goes: Geoscape - UFOs appear in waves, which is not necessarily bad, but more randomness couldnt hurt. (this translates into corvettes coming back after Jan 1st or something) Ive read, that the income from sponsors should be the majority of your income overall. This is not the case(at least not on Insane) 50%+ of my income is from crashsites. With only 2 countries out(north and south America) the income ALMOST covers my monthly expenses, while the crashsites make ANY progress possible. I very much like the general idea of Air Combat in this game and would love to see it expanded into 5v5 or something. Ive no illusion about it though, seeing as already people whined enough for you to implement an auto-resolve. F-17 - ok 2 is enough Mig - All the way, even after only being able to carry only 2 torpedoes. With only 150k a piece you can dominate the skies. Corsair - useless... Marauder - a faster mig with a cannon? Hell yea! As UFOs stand now, migs can easily hit a run medium and large targets and totally dominate very small and small ones. Im not asking for another nerf, just wanna mention how cute and snugly they are... I just wanna hug them and rub them all over my body... Theyve also removed the alien escorts, which I understand is temporary. (thank god) Ground Combat - Many would say, this is what matters the most. Im balanced between the two and cant really lean toward either. There is much more bugs here though(obviously, theres much more potential for them). Lets get down to it. I find accuracy in 19.6 better than the 19.5. Not worth a hooray shout, cause you just go aimed carbines instead of burst rifles(cause bursts still cant hit shit, unless its an alien using them. Give or take, machineguns have a place in my squad too, so Id say a job well done. Soldier appearance is decent. I dont mind being blue and in need of a diet. The armors look great. The only ones I find repulsive are Buzzard and Sentinel. I dont build them and its fine. (I would adress the lack of jumping utility, or the lack of elevation at all, but I still hope thatll change) Portraits are very good, theres a bunch ugly guys out there, but theyre well drawn. Laziness is no excuse for no lady sprites however. Calling realism to help you by saying that the armor is bulky doesnt work, youre already pissing on realism too much here for it to matter. Im positive, that if you dont pick up this cup some modder still might. To combat itself(I cant believe youre still reading this.) Aliens dont stick to no rules, they stick to anything, even shit thats not there. I like the Idea of Caesians and Sebillians sticking around in stronger forms. Sebillians have like 100 TU? or 120? Theyre annoying as fuck, so dont ever change them! Might be cool to implement their regeneration. Androns are a pain, not because of being tough, accurate and mercilessly reacting. Because of their wall and floor piercing shots, theyre the only foe I found so far, that can kill you through a wall, without even breaking it. Harredan or whatever theyre called are nasty, they always react and always hit... or so it would seem. But they respect walls(to a certain degree, but ill mention the AI later). Wraiths caused me to jawdrop, the only thing I dont like about them is when theyre running, they jump between 3 or 4 places and I have to station people all over the map before they eventually die to reaction fire. (Mind you this cost me a lot of time in b18 stable, in 19.6 I only found aggressive ones so far.¨ Reapers only appeared in sebillian bases and 2 per mission, but you dont need commander Shephard to deal with these. They die to reaction fire. Thats all Ive encountered so far.(you might wanna go "OH HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW" right about now... dont) Wallhax! Aliens see you, wherever you are. I have nothing against them seeing 2 tiles further than my people, but their eyes follow the closest target without regard for any obstacles. This is exploitable as hell.. and also moderately gay.(apologies to any gay people for insulting them) Night missions and Alien base missions... again, i dont mind them seeing much further than i do, but do they have to see AND SHOOT, through walls? They dont do that during the day. (unless theyre Androns) Soldier advancement is adorable, the stats that increase regardless of the rank.. the medals.. I love it all. Except the promotion system, seriously? 12 colonels on a Shrike? It just seems a little too far fetched. Make it dependent on mission numbers, or medals... or make the player make the decision who to promote. (1 per mission? Soldier with 2 green medals is eligible or something) This would not change the stat gains, just the absurd ranking system. Vehicles are useless... its no joke, they do have more TUs than your average Pvt. but they die just as fast. Cost of an aimed shot is what? 60? You can move fast, but you cant shoot anything. I tried to utilize them by putting 6 tanks in a base for defense, theyre far too expensive and weak to ever measure to raw manpower. An Idea would be, putting your men into the vehicles and making repair kits in addition to medikits. This would make the vehicle level, because of the pilots.. and buff their ressilience for fucks sake, if a tank dies to a single heavy plasma burst, whats the point of the plating. (these brackets bothering you yet or what?) Random thoughts 1st base - THATS NOT WHERE YOU PUT A RADAR, if you still dont get it, ask me for an illustration. difficulty - Buff the enemy numbers, not their HP or TU. Dont make buildings more expensive to maintain and take eons to build, create a need to build more of them. (more UFOs... MORE bases, not less!, the challenge is in maintaining a much more macro operation, than in micro-ing 8 soldiers against 2 300hp sebillians. (thats fun too, but you can savewhore for only so long) Love the sounds. Period. Voiced soldier/pilot acknowledgements? More maps! I understand this is gonna happen, I can hardly wait. edit: Im actually still playing with alien interceptors, wouldnt have it any other way. Replace the Corsair with or add some ATS bomber? Perhaps to soften up the alien bases before assaulting them? Landing Shits keep sitting down and jumping back into the air once my migs run out of fuel. I actually puked a little, when they managed to found a base in between my 2 squadrons circling around. Id love some way to disable the scumbags while theyre on the ground. Make alien bomber runs over Xenonaut bases destroying stuff, killing personnel, or just disabling stuff for a day or two? Did soldiers get their stats limited to 101? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Human psionics? When? All in all Im enjoying every minute of this game (100hrs+). Bugs are annoying, but theyre not here to stay. Thank you for you goddamn time, I might add more, regardless of wether anyone actually reads this.
  8. *edit* i just realised some of my concerns were adressed in the faq. Let's say I dont agree with everything especially the pilots part. Hi, i just finished a v18 playthrough. Congratulations, for a clone that sticks a lot to the original it has some great innovations. I was surprised by the depth of the game at this point. Air combat is the best i’ve seen. Before playing xenonauts i believe i played every clone of the original X-com game. Here are some thoughts to make Xenonauts my ideal x-com game. Some specific to Xenonauts, some could apply to every x-com clone. 1. Every people you employ should be unique. * Planes and vehicles should have pilots inside with names, ranks, and skills like reflex, piloting, and combat skill (if they are crashed or during a base attack). Maybe the rank could open access to more combat maneuvers. So those kill ratings wouldn’t be only for show and when you get a new plane type you can put your favorite pilot inside to benefit from his experience. Same for ground vehicles, even the remote ones. (they too would have some kind of progression. When a plane is shot down you get a chance to get the pilot back, if he managed to eject. It could even trigger a special mission to get him back if he fell behind enemy lines. * Based on Paradox’s Heart of Iron 2 (and maybe the others) Scientists also would have names but also domain specializations. Like particle physics, organic chemistry or whatsoever. Each research in the lab would need a few of these domains. You could always assign an unqualified scientist to a research but he would get a time malus. It’s a matter of getting the person for the right job. Acquiring renowned scientists could be a mission in itself or a reward. The same system could be used for engineers. No more anonymous henchmen. You know and care for everyone. 2.Tactical combat. Recon : It always annoyed me that we arrive on the battlefield airborne but ignore everything of the map beforehand. Having come flying you should at least know where the buildings are (or the UFO for what matters). If not for satellite feed or aerial recon. I’d love to see a small unarmed recon drone flying high over the battlefield as a new unit (could be shot down by aliens). Damage localization : the ability to shoot some specific body parts with aimed shots like in Fallout2. Researching an alien would reveal his weak points and you could use it against them. Same for your soldiers, they would lose movement when shot in the leg, accuracy when shot in the arm, sight when losing an eye... They could even lose limbs to be replaced with prosthetics. Prosthetics that could get better with alien tech. (imagine your team of veteran half-cyborgs) Dropship : The dropship staying there unharmed in the middle of the battlefield seems out of place. Either it should fly to safety after dropping your squad or you might have to defend it. With the pilots being units. (a nice special mission could be having to defend your crash landed dropship until you get a pick-up) UFOs : I miss the ability to make your own entrance in the hull of UFOs with explosive weapons. Also i haven’t seen multiple floor high rooms in ufos. Having to go through the 3 storeys of the carrier quickly becomes boring. The carrier’s hangar could be 2 floors high. So those jumpsuits would come in handy. Hills : maybe it’s an engine limitation but every map is flat. I fondly remember the hills from the original games. Would it be possible to add some height differences? Overall, height seems to be underused. Neutral Units : Neutral military units when met could be taken control of or given some basic orders if in a friendly country. Some neutral soldier you helped could offer to join you at the end of the mission. 3. Global map I like the look of the new map but the water’s blue seem too light. The previous map conveyed the grimm feeling of the alien invasion better. Also nightlights would be welcomed. Since the map is the main game interface it looks a bit empty. You could add switchable tactical overlays. (coloring countries based on your rating, summarizing alien activity to find a pattern in their moves,...). Just add stuff that looks cool. Hollywood does that very well. (see http://vimeo.com/64377100 or https://vimeo.com/1797025 for good examples) Global Politics : what happen to countries that stop funding you? Do they fall to aliens? Do they start their own Alien-fighting corp? Seems there is something to be done there. A few ideas : At the start of the game each country has it’s own military forces, a set number of troops and plane that you can call for support. Needless to say they quickly become insufficient to facing the growing threat and using them for suicide missions would be a hit in your relations. When a country stops funding you, it starts it’s own alien fighting program. Competing with you for resources, other countries, support. They might try to get their hands on your most advanced tech. Maybe one of your crew is a spy and you have to get rid of one of your favorite scientists. You might have to repel their invasion of your base. Fighting humans besides the aliens. We need some way to win those countries back. Some specific missions perhaps or giving them advanced tech. getting in good terms with a country could net some various rewards besides money : Experienced units, a plane, and old military base a a startpoint for a new base, informations about aliens. 4. Base Medical healing pods : Once researched and built you assign soldiers to them for faster healing like you would assign them to your dropship. Training facilities : we really need a way to teach those rookies how to throw a grenade farther than their feet. Managed by one of your veterans. The higher ranked the veteran, the better the training. I’d love to see a alien break out of his containment cell and spreading terror across the base. An Alien the movie like mission.
  9. I'm on my first playthrough, and I felt I'd just make notes as I went along on the current state of the game. I've played the original XCOM series quite a lot, and my first time on this game is on normal difficulty. Now commenting on build: V18.51 Steam GPL=Gameplay Issue, SUG=Related Suggestion, ART=Art, DES=Design, BUG=Bug likely, AST=Assets, SIM=Simulation, SYS=System IMPROVEMENTS GPL - reduced base micro, but perhaps too much ...SUG: one of the payoffs of the original was, after a good mission, getting to go back to base and look through the spoils and personally sell off and profit from what you got, even if it was random crap you never would use (plasma pistols). TWEAKS ART - crash sites should look it, not just like a landed UFO in pristine area ...SUG: bring back old ones, plus damaged props/scenery DES - middle east "walls" exist and have windows why? No closed-off compounds ...SUG: redo MEast assets DES - more information needed. ultimately, it's hard to make decisions when you don't have the info onscreen BUG - imprecise clicks: clicking on some things in base screen, etc, is off by a few pixels, v frustrating BUG - scatter laser sells for $1K only? BUG - the arrow keys do not immediately work after "HIDDEN MOVEMENT". The mouse must be moved first. MINOR PROBLEMS AST - limited guns ...SUG: US/SOV ARs+LMGs+MMGs+BRs+Snipers AST - limited planes ...SUG: more variety, like having a "missile truck" so you can be more tactical in engagements SIM - dusk? Played in the "dusk/dawn" zone but it was dark as night. ...SUG: variable lighting as a % of how far between hard night limit and hard day limit (not just on/off) SIM - excessive wall damage: MG does way too much damage to a wall. 3-4 shots should not take out an entire wall. ...SUG: vastly increase building health BUG - disappearing weapons: not sure why but some presets dont have weapons saved MAJOR PROBLEMS GPL - battle AI: terrible, just stand in place, crouching and standing up, seem directionless and unchallenging ...SUG: in-out of cover routine, flanking if unseen, more aggression less runawayrunaway ...SUG: setup random ambush spawn types in maps also GPL - battlescape limited: no forests, no empty deserts, no mountains, etc? XCOM had more... ...SUG: add more! GPL - battlescape 2D: no vertical component? XCOM had more ...SUG: add verticality for terrain SYS - really, really long battlescape cleanup: can take 3+ minutes to end a battle once the final alien is done. Sometimes it doesn't ever complete. Sometimes it takes longer to wait than it did to fight the battle. Randomly this doesn't take much time at all - I think on short missions it's almost instantaneous. FEATURE REQUESTS SIM - auto-resolve option: a bit complicated, but allow an auto-resolve that bases the results on results in the last X engagements. ART - grass props: it would be nice to have these so that we can have grass sprites and other terrain sprites instead of just purely flat ground. It looks nice, but it also is clearly totally flat. SIM/ART - Cloud shadows and more environmental effects. Would be nice to have snow, rain, moving (or even static) cloud shadows, lightning, time-of-day/weather lighting changes. That adds so much immersion for not-too-much-work. I think another indie game in development, Project Zomboid, has a good example of basic rain effects in isometric gameplay that are effective.
  10. I never played the original xcom, I must have missed it in my teens, but I played the UFO After series to death. Anyway, here was my experience in point form as feedback for the devs. I have played the steam build up to March 1980 with 4 bases up and running getting 3 million each month in funding. Things I like 1 Those battleships filled with autons that come out at you in waves, Love it. I kill 30-35 so its a great stand up and hit em fight that ends with victory so I dont have to clear out the ufo. Keeps things varied so each map has differences. 2 The balance at the start of game really gives a great challenge upgrading from M16s to lasers. Annoying things. 1 I once spent real time 30 minutes chasing a wraith around the map that teleported every move. It was farm map so there were many LOS obstacles. Very frustrating. 2 Air is very unbalanced since the big ufos come in 3 months and the better interceptors require a lot of build time and money. The build time is more of a problem. 3 It takes about 2 months to set up a new base properly. 4 The UFOs come in waves of like 12 at a time. Great revenue opportunity, but it means each base needs a lot of interceptors to take advantage of it all. I found it balanced for me well when I had 5 marauders at each base. Modifications I made to make the game more fun for me. 1 Increased the damage for magstorm and plasma blaster fivefold. 2 Reduced the build time for the interceptors to 100 for corsairs and 150 for marauders. 3 Reduced cost to 320 for corsairs and 400 for marauders. 4 Increased base sight range for soldiers to 22. 5 Reduced build time on the armor to 30 days for wolf, 90 days for sentinel. Xenonaut bugs I have noticed 1 When the last enemy on a map was a zombie, I killed it, out came the reaper.. and then it showed mission complete. And I lost points for letting an enemy get away. 2 When selecting a plane to build without an engineer on the project, I went to the geoscope, the money was taken off me, went back to the manufacturing plant, removed the project and no money was refunded. It was gone. 3. When putting on the sentinel armor while having a weapon equipped in the squad screen, the weapon disappears. Usually the weapon might go back to inventory, but in this case it actually disappears and I have to reload and unequip the weapon to equip it. 4 Using the shrike to visit some areas such as terror sites leads to a crash to desktop. I used the maps someone had altered to allow a shrike to land since some maps didn't have proper shrike deploy slots. Later on in the game, I was unable to add more soldiers to the shrike and trying to click on the grayed out shrike button to assign a soldier to it led to a crash to desktop. I had to spend time getting the valkyrie going or rely on the chinook. (I was secretly hoping for a Macross Valkyrie for a cool mech battle but ... yeah) 5 The game would crash to desktop if I tried to transfer a soldier to another base. This led to me having to level up soldiers from scratch at each base, so getting soldiers with 55 TUs to take on a downed battleship - not fun. Weird less important bugs 1 When attacking a downed ufo that severe damage was inflicted on, after the first turn, I win the map! There were no aliens. 2 Healing someone with a medkit counted as an action that aliens could react to with a shot. 3 When deploying with the valkyrie, the deployment phase seems mixed up with the first phase. That led to a nice terror mission opening where the aliens took out 3 of my team members. To get around this, I saved the game after deploying my troops, then I reloaded that game and I was able to take the first move. Recommendations 1 I cannot see the aliens when they are just on the edge of the viewable space during a night mission. I have to wiggle the cursor around the area the alien should be to find it and on that note, when you enter a ufo during night, the ufo interiors go dark when you cant see them (eg when moving soldiers) which does not occur during the day. Pie in the sky recommendations 1 More in game indications of where the story is going. 2 Perhaps you could “retire” soldiers when they reach a certain point and put them into some sort of training academy to give rookies a boost when they hit the field. This would give players a way to get rid of super soldiers and make rookies more effective, keeping players interested in leveling up soldiers in the field. It makes the ground missions more rewarding. 3 Upgrading radar stations to improve detection?
  11. Where I came from: played a lot of X-com Good Points: Atmosphere, art design Needs Work: 1) Changing the weapon loadout crashed program 1b) No vehicles at the beginning of the game? Is Xeno so poorly funded it can't afford a single tank. 1c) I had 2 identical soldiers in my soldier list 1d) Sent planes and landing craft after a flying alien ship. No clue how the sky battle went, program just skipped to the ground battle mode 2) Battle rolllout took 15 minutes on a fast computer with a SSD. Never actually came up until I started the task manager, then when I switched back one soldier exited the craft and another shot another soldier all by itself 3) Battle layout look very X-com (good) but the maps are small and bordered by black space which is very immersion breaking 3b) grenades simply do not work. Soldiers who don't have them can throw them. Soldiers that do can throw them but nothing happens. Maybe I am supposed to use some TUs to pull the pin but I didn't see any way to do that. 4) Killed an alien or 2 but then reached a place designed to give advantage to aliens. 2 soldiers died from enemies just at the edge of FOW range (OK thats fine) 5) No way to target walls and cover and destroy them with weapons that I can find = without this feature I simply won't play the game. No free aim = no play. 5b) Hay bales all over the place.... soldiers can't pick them up and move them. 6) Alien destroys cover ..... soldier still wont walk through the flattened cover 7) Sectoid Alien plays hide and seek right at the edge visibility. Annoying and unfun with such short time units and incredibly low accuracy stats. A sniper gets 10% accuracy from 8 meters away? (based on soldier size) Send in two shogun wielding soldiers to shoot point blank after sacrificing another soldier. One shotgun blast straight to the face point blank ... the sectoid doesn't die. The second shotgun blast to the face, the sectoid doesn't die. Both shots hit as both soldier were standing right next square. I laugh and the aliens take their turn. Alien hits but doesn't kill. A third shotgun blast and the sectoid goes down. If it takes 3 point blank shotgun blasts to kill a weakly armored alien like a sectoid your balance is way out of touch with reality or you are artificially increasing difficulty. 8) Kill the last alien and the game crashes probably because it trying to phone home and it is blocked by my firewall. Uninstalled ..... needs too much work I hope you can fix all the bugs .... It is interesting that nobody seems to be able the make a game even half as good as the original X-com. I hope the devs of this game can eventually. The new Xcom simply was of no interest to me. No base attacks, no free aim ... all obstacles have the same destructibility. Aliens wait around and get a free move.
  12. Hello, guys! First of all thank you for making such a Great Game. I say Making, not remaking, that is clear for me. I'm a real X-COM Hard-core fan, having tatoo X-COM and known here in Russia by Novel written in 2002 '2085. Fifth Invasion Chronicles', and known in Cenega by short story 'The Old Friend' based on Ufo Aftershock matters. So I feel free give some ideas based on 3 day game experience. What I like. 1. Air combat. It is the best think of its sort I ever seen in such games. 2. Tactical combat uses landscape cover. Yes, now the cover is real, not as rude as was in XCOM 1-2, not as 'arcadish' as in 2012's game. 3. The faces and individuals. Not so faceless as were in X-COM 3. But the spirit of original biography inside very nice! 4. The spirit of original X-COM in details. 5. The graphics. They are similar to X-COM 3 and that is the best choice to my opinion. 6. Usage of flares and grenades in tactical combat. That is brilliant! 7. Control of research teams. 8. Local forces at the places of anti-xeno missions. What I'd like to change or add. 1. Automatic update of munition after Alenium research. That could be believable in future, but not in 1979. May be good idea to follow X-COM Interceptor scheme. The aircraft may be bought or crafted in several variants. Munitions can be crafted or... That is my idea. Workshop extension may be built. So you may buy conventional ammo and missiles and upgrade them for money and some time useage. The automatic upgrade of base defences are also seem to be not good. 2. Lack of info on Alien activity. I feel serious need in graphs so I can predict exactly where I'm needed. I dont want to loose countries without possibility to prevent it. In 2012's game were satellites. What's here? I propose some non-anti-xeno missions. They may be available any time, so operatives may support local forces in variety of situations. They may fight for technologies (not only alien, but side, random etc.) stuff or money. The idea of alternative human techs that may be recieved from countries may add new juice in the game. The similar freedom was in X-COM 3. I like it very much! If the country is in panic the mission reduces it. Otherwise the reward is small but still useful. 3. Little bit more control in tactical combat. How I can choose mode of shooting? I didn't find. How can I calculate TU for opening, closing doors? Now I researched but still didn't use flight suits. May guess that will be good, but yet I have nothing. May be limited fuel for example. 4. Items on board the craft. Can I load additional items? If not, that is bad. Could be useful. 5. More clear experience results after combat. Pluses before how much TU or other stat expanded could be enough. 6. Different camuflage for different locations. I'd better craft 3 similar suits with different camuflage to get cover advantage. The life of soldier is priceless. 7. Weapon constructor as it was in Cenega's games could be very useful! If it is possible of course. 8. Sound of talk between soldiers in tactical combat. If I have any other ideas you could see it later. Thank you. Aleksey Borisov aka Jemar
  13. I have played for 3 months until dec 79(veteran difficulty) and i have some impressions to expose.. 1)pistols?pointless?why can i use a pistol when additional clips(for a standard weapon)weight less?and in undoubtedly more useful? 2)cash..for me the cash earned from the nation's founding is really too low..damn i have shooted down 10's of ufo's and build 2 bases(USSR,USA)and almost all have cutted down the foundings.. at the first of the month,after paid the unkeep and maintenance i have only 52k...and retake the nations after leaves the contribute to the fight with a mission specified or something like.. 3)the flashbang granades can confuse the enemy or drop their weapons force to retrat or consume their TU's?i find that quite useless at the time.. 4)smoke granades more effective because for now the chilling precision of the aliens is quite frustrating.. 5)implement from the beginnings soviet weapons without moddings for increased deepness of the game? 6)can exist flamethrowers?it would be great in assaulting ufo's and in close combat fights like the farm roads and buildings 7)armoured cars for me is only a better target for the alien's heavy plasma..if special abilities like throwing smoke or flares are implemented the utility of such expensive vehicle would greatly enhanced 8)less the cost of TU's for throwing flares and fix a max per soldier?implementing nightvision googles?or a massive airdrop of flares in the fight's area? 9)diminish the maintenance costs? 10)implementing chemical and incendiary granades\rockets? 11)the precision and sight range of the aliens is really chilling..i have lost many soldiers to shots fired from sideral distances greatly over any possible sight range..especially in night missions or even through deep smoke curtails.. 12)the aliens thrown granades? this is only a my personal feelings..the game after all is quite balanced but some questions would help to make a more funny and realistic game.. thanks
  14. Maybe these have been suggested or mentioned before, and they're a bit obvious, so forgive me if i'm being redundant Balance: UFO missions could be somewhat more focused around the area where the players builds the first base, and all around in a minor scale. To make this somewhat realistic, at the start of the game, a. INTEL report stating that alien activity seems to be focused on one specific part of the globe, and suggest the first base to be built there. This doesn't go well with the player building a base wherever he wants, but then, we can build a base on Australia and lose from the very beginning. Right now the only good and viable starting spot is North Africa. I think this would add some freedom and variety. As an alternative, letting the player build wherever he wants and tune the AI to have increased activity on that area. That would ensure fair game and steady income. But still, building a base an New Zealand would be "at your own risk", good luck being a fisherman UFO over sea/water: Maybe i've been unlucky, but it has been happening A LOT. I'd hate to invest hours and lose a game because of such thing, either most just fly over sea, or they run and get destroyed there (or escape, if i have to RTB, after so much cat chasing rat). No missions-game over, and chased aliens should know better if they get shot down over sea, its byebye for sure, no chance for rescue or quick fix. Not to mention it destroys marine ecosystems! Immediately having having to rush for a second base makes sense, but it might end up in a dead end, like it happened to me on this playthrough - i rushed a second base on NA, got almost no activity for 1 month (a couple UFO over sea), and still lost the territory. Sure can still shoot down UFO there, but the funding is gone, and almost all activity is over sea (thus the ranting on the previous para). As someone mentioned on some other thread, a weekly or monthly activity report would help immensely. There has to be some sort of INTEL, right? Additionally or alternatively, there could be a report stating increased UFO activity somewhere else on one or more locations, and suggesting a base. Feature/mod: Radar stations: Deploying shorter range standalone standard radar stations, instead of having to build a whole base from scratch. Mentioning requesting cooldown/limited time/availability AWAC missions from countries may be a bit too much? This wont necessarily make everything much easier (because our aircraft may not have enough range to get there), but may help determining where things are happening. We're not swimming in funds. after all, and it's quite easy to get a truck with a radar on it. Alas no additional sprites, just a dot and a circle!
  15. I'll be straight forward and by topic. World map. Nothing to declare, as expected. Maybe nuilding bases could be a little less expansive so we could expand to 2 bases witohut much harrasment, it could spped the game a bit as with one base only thing are a bit slow, but i did not pass november timefreme ingame, so i may be wrong. Aerial battle. They are fun but too easy, At least as far as corvete with escort goes. IMHO in mega upper supper dificulty it should be up to 5 ships each side. Beyond that the map would be too clogged, 3 ships is too easy. *Food for tought scaling diff for aerial battle. Base management. The problem here is one and one only: soldier management, too much tabs for nothing. Its a pain in the ass: 3 tables and a half that could fit in one. - In the arming TAB: Since we have an helicopter on the image shrink the soldier image and put a mini transport space management in there. Its a pita to have to go to airplane management and then switch to transport just to be able to place your men. If not willing to do such at least in the tab put all soldiers portrait and weaponry to fit without having to scroll. its a pain to have to go left and right just to be sure N2 is a sniper and Number 7 is an Assault To speak the truth Portrait are unecessary, you don t arrange your team by beauty, you arrange them by equipment depending on the sortie you want to do. - In the arming TAB part2: Not showing the health status, in %, of the soldier in this tab forces us to go to the recruiting tab, which by the way have such a big uselessly puzzling, redundant to the arming TAB, soldier excel sheet. This could change with the reimplantation of training (in a more complex way please). But the only usefull info of this sheet is the % of health the soldier have, so adding soldier % health in the soldier arming tab is a must. Those 2 little details decrease a lot of the play experience, the way things are set now lack of practicality thus ,ake this part of the game an irritating experience. The rest is OK to GOOD Now to the main part. Ground combat. Overall its ok, fun but it could be made more enjoyable changing propably big detail, and i don t know if its feasable due to AI limitation. What the game really lack is a proper LOS implementation. Right now, and this is my personal impression, it feels a bit dumb and is deceiving after you catch how things work. Right now the LOS concept is way too basic and lack logic refining making the combat a bit too rought. I don t know if its due to map but: Soldiers are affected by myopi, they can t see stuff more than 20 meter in front of them. Armor restrict sight but they also restrict pure front sight ? What the logic in that ? Helmet restrict lateral ad upward sight not front sight, if that is the problem augment lateral turn cost, especially when crouched it should take more time to turn to get in firing position, and firing readinees when looking trought a scope. But the more pissing feature of the combat due to the actual system consist of 2 parts: 1) the lack of sight even if you are "scoped" myope scope too ? This could be solved putting time penalty to turning + aiming. 2) The "leaping sight syndrom", the fact that if you (or the aliens) have a men on a far corner and the sniper on the diametral corner with open space you are able to shoot it, but if the soldier not there you not even able to see it. I know its a double wind feature, but its so illogic it hurts, especially when the ennemy has snipers and one near your transport. But i also find this feature on our side ridiculous. Another minor annoyance is how the hell, if coming from the air, don t we know where the ufo is downed, maps aren t big enought to justify this. then at least, if keeping things as now, implement Multiple UFO spawn location in the map. That would be greatly appreciated because after 3 sessions os a map you know exactly where to go. A feature that would be nice is to allow shooting "over shoulder", if one soldier is crouched the one standing up on a square right next to it should be able to fire without hitting it. Its not another annoyance that could turn pretty cool any, militari /police force is trained to so. Then I would say its a totally expected feature in such a game. Normal pistol are pretty useless, i always wonder why they put them in games, too slow firerate, too low power, and absurdly lacking precision at short range, no shield or whatever to give them a use. Waste of work. A thing that shocked me and it is probably the result of the short myope soldiers is the fact that lizardmens are stated as poor eyesight, and yet they see far longer than you when you don an armor. This could be solved by helmet being optional, but this would surely implicate a minimum of locational damage, which would be aesomely cool (and maybe an excuse to carry pistols) but i don t know if this engine support this. The last mistake of combat is not having weapon modularity. UFO series implemented it, and returning to this dull state is quite deceiving. At the timeframe, many scopes, grenade launcher, laser sight, bipod etc.. were already there. All in all the game is enjoyable, but it has extremely low replayability as it is, and i don t see this changing unless some considerable changes are done. Right now my "november" game crashed on the "Hidden Movement" screen and sadly, even being a great apreciator of this kind of games, i really don t feel like starting another game right now. Just because i feel its has not enought surprises, too previsible,too much harassement in some parts to pull me in again. I will play again in maybe some weaks, but its not a game i see myself playing again once finished, it probably lack somr amplitude. If i could take TFTD GFX and some improvement in the usability department i would play again., but its too dated, even the STEAM version. I hope i haven t offended anyone, this is merely my feedback as a customer.
  16. Moolet

    oh my...

    Dear Xenonauts makers, Wow! Just wow! I read a thread on these forums a while back saying this game doesn’t have the wow factor but really they are way off mark in my opinion. I’m an avid gamer, I remember playing the playable demo of x-com: Enemy Unknown (as it was known in the UK at the time) and played that terror mission perhaps 50 times as a kid. I played the full game when I eventually got a PC that could run it (more times through than I can remember), and then Terror from the deep and loved it too (though, in my opinion it was way inferior to the original). I literally have not been so fixated with a game in the intervening 19 years until I found Xenonauts; furthermore, it’s this good whilst it’s still in Beta! There are still some big bugs, but if it didn’t have these, it wouldn’t be in Beta right? For people who want gloss this really isn’t the game for you but log onto Steam and you can choose from dozens of games that are just gloss on top of gloss with little actual content sandwiched between, (there are other good games but I’m sick of some glossy titles... though i still end up buying them, a game > no game to play). For me the ‘wow factor’ comes from the hours of game play and situations that arise naturally due to evolving situations within the game environment, rather than pre-scripted events: Xenonauts has this in spades! I’ve put in over 30 hours on the Steam release and many hours previous on the Desura version I first started with (build v.15 or something). Some of the situations that have a arisen through the game-play could never be properly emulated with a scripted event. The first build I tried frustrated me somewhat, reaction fire was king, and although you could counter the AI using a bit of strategy and a bit of metagaming, it was playable, for me at least. After a few frustrations and lost save games due to new patches I decided to leave it alone a while. I came back just before the Steam release and I love this build. As I said before, there are number of things that are bugging me and I’m sure you’re aware of the majority but since I’ve clocked quite a few hours now, some may not be well reported: 1. Door bug, this occurs in alien bases in particular if a door gets damaged at all it then won’t open. I can see this being a deliberate thing, as in the opening mechanism is damaged, (that’s the way I’m in game rationalising it) but I’m not sure if it’s intended. 2. Shooting through solid objects: I’ve noticed some posts mentioning this before, but I thought I’d mention a few places I’ve noticed it. Aliens in the control room (2nd floor) of the cruiser, shooting into the two side rooms of the lower floor; the shots do not hit the wall and have killed members of my party before. (I rationalise it by thinking of it instead as a automated weapon system to repel invaders!) Alien bases, they seem to always know exactly here I am in their base and shoot at me irrespective of 50ft of wall between us. (I can rationalise them knowing where I am but letting fly full auto, often into the back of their friends really needs to be fixed). Whenever i seem to be positioned next to a wall, they can see me through it and if they happen to auto from a rifle, chances are one shot will take the wall away and then several more have the opportunity to take me out. 3. Psionics: do they work? I’ve just recently done my first 2 missions against psionic caseans and so far I have no fear of them. Nothing has happening so far, I got a message once saying something like they know the location of one of my team and then he was shot at from half the map away, but after that and several more gold rings highlighting my players (I assume this is the psionic attack) nothing happened. 4. Airplane locked in combat. This has happened once to me, i ‘escaped’ about 8-9 times then gave up and destroyed my planes and reloaded. 5. Alien stuck in doors and walls, this happens a lot in base missions. 6. Not sure if intended but in January 1980 I had 4 assaults on my main base in the first 10 days. (2 months later I’m up to about 6 attacked on this base and 3 on my other). Whilst I guess Jan is the month in which the aliens evolved this ability, they sure were persistent. I bagged about 1.4mil from their futile attempts in January (who needs funding nations?), so no complaints here, but I do wonder if it’s not a bug. 7. Do the base defence work? I’ve got my second base with 5 plasma defense (I don’t have a good xenonaut team there, they are in training). Even when it reported them all as having hit, it did not prevent a base mission. In fact in the 9 base defences I’ve done, not once have the defence actually done anything (that I can tell). I’m on the point of removing them all and perhaps building a landing pad and welcome sign for them, as it’s a major form of income for my team at the moment. As a side note, is it intentional we can see the aliens entry points, as soon as I realised this, base defence went from a nail biting ‘holy ****’ moment to, ‘wooo i could to with another 350k right now, and I don’t even have to risk my planes for it’. 8. A couple times I’ve not been able to select a troop by clicking on him, and other players can walk through him. Selecting him by any other method (portrait, hotkey) works fine. 9. Invisible, indestructible, wormhole-shields. IIWS as I like to call them. The aliens only seem to employ them when attacking my base, (I’ve seen them in the hanger and med lab adjacent to where the aliens enter). When you move your mouse over the area it gets the two red circles, one above the other, like when you target and enemy, or like the green ones when you select a team member. If you shoot through them, sometimes the shot warps somewhere else, sometimes not, explosive shots just hit it and explode, but thankfully (and this has saved me many times) grenades go straight through. I’m guessing this is a bug rather than a powerful and devious alien device that they only seem to employ in very selective situations. 10. Finally on the same farm map, with both a landing ship and a carrier (both had landed rather than being shot down if i remember correctly) I’ve had crashes on the ‘hidden movement screen’ about 3-7 turns into it. With repeated reloads the same occurs. The first time I had to call off the mission, the second time i beat the bug by rather than dispersing, I charged all my team straight to the carrier (it’s within spitting distance of the dropship) and occupied the carrier for 5 turns for the win. I don’t know if this means the crash is caused with AI doing something within the ship which i managed to disrupt with my headlong charge. The map is the one that, as you exit the drop ship, to the right of the team, north on the map there is a concrete wall, with a gap in it about 10-15 squares away. Behind which is a huge barn and tractors+ hay in the courtyard. To the south are fields and directly opposite the exit of the drop ship (north/west) is a field then a hedgerow. As of now I can’t think of any others, but I’ll be happy to add to them later if/when i remember. If you would like further details on any of these bugs please let me know and I’ll try my best to describe them. Balance issues I think money is fine (on normal) but air-combat is hard, and I like it hard, but it seems a little too much. I understand we can never keep on top of the alien invasion, and it would break the immersion if we could. But at the moment i just don’t dare leave the base, for 2 or 3 waves at a time (April 1980 I think). I just made my first marauder and wow, how cool. But still, with 1 corsair, 1 foxtrot and 1 marauder with 2 condors back-up (all in my main base), i still have to very carefully pick my fights, more marauders are on the shopping list at the moment, but they really take too long to make. I read a thread about indestructible planes, I can see why this would be good but in honesty i like destructible planes and I think if they were indestructible it would take something away from the game. I think having some kind of evasive manoeuvre such as ‘hit the deck’ would help balance things. It takes a second or two to carry out, but the plane escapes from combat (not to re-enter.. perhaps it takes some damage too) and runs at high speed at a low altitude at which alien space ships can’t target or manoeuvre well (can create some sci-fi lore as to why). This would improve survivability whilst making air-combat not without big risks. I read somewhere that air combat isn’t meant to be a huge part of the game but something on my wish list would be to gain experience for pilots. Perhaps if the plane does crash land you can get a ground mission where you can go into recover the wreckage (which you can then ‘repair’) and rescue the pilot who is surrounded by enemy forces and sporting just his sidearm. The pilot could have an experience tree which could perhaps increase manoeuvrability of the planes, improve his combat skills/equipment or add an extra ability in combat, (e.g. roll for foxtrot pilots, hit the deck etc). You’ve got plenty of things to do I’m sure, but I would like to feel the same connection to the planes and their pilots as I do to my troops and bases. Again I put the bugs there in case they might help not to criticise. I can’t state enough how much I like the game you’ve made. It’s the best game I’ve played for a long time, and the best game of its type since X-com; which quite frankly it advances on. However I won’t say it’s better as it’s impossible to compare 2 games that are nearly 20 years apart. Thank you all who have contributed to this game, it’s a huge pleasure and genuine excitement to play, it’s great to see the constructive attitude (generally speaking) of the responses on these forums from the makers and the users and I hope it’s a great success financially and you all get very rich and fat on the profits! You deserve it. Thanks
  17. So, I've recently finished the game on easy. 'Finished.' I'm going to start with the few game-breaking bugs I encountered, and my fixes for them: Due to the slightly convoluted research path I haven't been able to research the final mission tech. I got the leader (alive) and everything, but I haven't researched 'alien leader interrogation' before I got it, so I basically killed that tree. I've researched all other things and was in march 1980 - mag weapons, all armors, all craft (except for the fury - is that even in yet?), anyway, everything. I've killed about 8 alien bases and so on and so forth. Seeing how I couldn't progress I began playing with game files. After going through the research XML I tried modifying my save through HEX (to no avail)... so, after searching the forums a bit I found out that I can call a function with a script - UnlockFinalMission();. I added the line to the assets\scripts\enterbasename.lua and made the cancel button call it. If anyone is stuck, open the file up in notepad (or notepad++, it's much better ), and edit the following part (added line is colored red): Button { name = "cancel", x = 120, y = 60, command = function() [color=#FF0000]UnlockFinalMission();[/color] PopModal( "enterbasenamedlg" ); end, To activate the final mission, click 'build base' on the global overview and then cancel it when it asks you for the name (in case this wasn't obvious). So I embarked on the final mission, killed everything (the large drone killed the praetor leader for me, when it was shooting at my troopers on the other side of the room, also the wal north of the final room's door is invisible - I got shot through it), ran from the reaper masses and finished it with only 2 deaths (due to not knowing where the reapers spawn). I also killed the reactors. What bugs me is that I got no victory text/game over screen afterwards. Is it not in yet or did my meddling with files disable the proper sequence of events? Winning simply takes me back to the global screen, and I can redo the mission, too. Whatever, not that important. The game was fun. I played on easy, and ended up tweaking some numbers in the gamefiles, due to the difficulty being too harsh (no, it's all doable, but I wouldn't manage finishing the game in under 30h with default difficulty). There were a few bugs, like terror missions not working and landing ship desert and middle east missions causing a CTD - I managed to fix the terror missions, the CTD was caused by too few spawn points for the aliens, so I fixed that by adding about 16 in the editor, in a nice square in front of my spawn (could have placed them around, and only 4 were taken by the aliens in missions), which presented my soldiers with a turkey shoot in the beginning of every terror mission (there were still aliens spawning in the usual spots, just a few spawned in the square I added). I also had to remove all civvies and friendly AI in the terror missions, as they caused the never ending hidden movement bug, again, fiddling with the game files. I didn't manage to fix the alien.landingship bug, dunno what is causing it, it ain't spawns or placement of terrain - speaking of which, there's some rocks placed in the UFO spawn square in those maps, I tried moving/removing them but it didn't help. I've also noticed that a desert house in battleship_desert map doesn't have stairs going to the second floor - weird home these people live in. Balance: Easy is way too hard. I don't mind hard being hard, as I love a challenge, but with easy I want a fast 'run' through the game - not having to save every turn, not having to be really careful in air combat and so on and so forth. Tbh, looking at the difficulty settings, easy is the same as insane, except the aliens have less HP. There's a thread discussing that and I'm sure it'll be sorted out there. Alien 'rocket launcher' - I forgot the name, but if I understand correctly (I do read the xenopedia, if available), the weapon is supposed to be devastating. My predator-clad soldiers received multiple direct hits with it and it only scratched off like 10 HP, while 2 shots of heavy plasma do more than 20 HP on the same soldier. I think you should either change the description to - suicidal pea-shooter (the miss rates are so high the aliens tend to eventually blow themselves to bits shooting at a wall in alien base assaults - and yes they try to shoot me through walls due to buggy vision). In any case, if I understand this correctly, this should be a weapon on par with ye olde blaster launcher in Ufo1-Ufo defense, without the 9-point aim mode. It's pathetic compared to that WMD. Grenades - Aliens don't have/throw grenades. I hope this will be added eventually. Grenade explosion range is 3x3 tiles. No, no, no. Should be 5x5 for regular nades, with a 1x1 increase with every tech level (8x8 for fusion). A fusion grenade should level a building, and all forms of cover 2 tiles away from the landing point, not the paltry damage it does now. Yes, it does destroy some cover, and yes, it does quite some damage, but it just seems pathetic for end game tech. Also, compared to explosive grenades, stun gas is a lot more powerful and a lot more useful. There's really little point in throwing regulars if you have stun grenades, since the gas envelops a larger area, and enemies caught within it might pass out in the next round. Stunned units - do they ever wake up? I never tried waiting for them to do so, but no units ever woke up in a mission. Will we be able to wake our soldiers up with the medkit/by waiting, will the aliens ever wake up? Especially the sebillians, reapers and all aliens fused to an armor (it pumps them with alien adrenaline or something comment added to xenopedia)? Drones - they used to be really scary in other ufo games - lots of armor, took a lot of fire to take one down, killed the whole team, exploded in your face; now they die to a few shots of laser/ballistic fire, have weak attacks, etc. The heavy drone seems the only worthy enemy, but it's still easier to take one of them down than a sebillian elite or similar enemy. Also, have I mentioned that they do not explode as described in the xenopedia (yet)? Explosives- why no plasma/fusion bombs, like the block of C4, just with more firepower and a larger radius? On that note, mines would be a nice addition (especially in front of the larger UFOs the aliens seem to like running out of so much). Manufacture and selling - manufacture of items and selling them was a major line of income in the other ufo games. In that lore, X-com became a huge manufacturer of weaponry and tech and later became Marsec. I'm not arguing you should clone that storyline, but, honestly, you're making advanced tech with extremely advanced materials and the world is like: Yeah, I'll give ya 1000$ for it. Are we trading with Rick Harrison or something? Due to engineers having an upkeep and items costing so much to manufacture, I think we should at least be able to sell them for a good profit, as you can still balance the game so that we don't build sweatshop bases where engineers keep working on an assembly line building laser cannons (+1 if you know where that is from). I'm sure the numbers are going to be tweaked eventually, just adding input here. Speaking of items, I stopped getting alien ammunition after the aliens switched to heavy plasma and other lategame stuff. The ammo should at least be sold in the score screen (though I prefer doing all the selling manually, but whatever). In any case, the only time when I actually sell something is when I upgrade to the better version of it, like selling the laser aircraft cannon when I get plasma. I just feel that the engineers should be busy all the time instead of waiting on the next big project and then taking ages to build that. I think the amount of time that it takes to build things is ok in terms of manufacture days in the game files, but we should have 30 or more engineers and scientists per factory/lab building - of course more should be able to fit into the living quarters. The low numbers and lack of economy reminds me of X-COM:EU too much (that game was... bad, to keep it civil). Research - I love the fact that there is a lot of research available, but we should have some indication what the research will provide - I thought single fire weaponry was the research path for aircraft weapons, and got a crappy vehicle weapon instead. All in all, I think the rapid fire and single fire branches should be unified into 'advanced laser/plasma/MAG weapons' giving you the soldier heavy gun, aircraft cannon and vehicle cannon at the same time. Branching it out seems like purely filler research that doesn't really add to the game much. Alien officer interrogation should, once researched, enable you to instantly interrogate every captured officer and elite for alien base info - 10% chance on revealing every alien base. That is, if there are 10 bases on the planet, one is usually revealed. Either that, or the officer giving you info on which continent a base is located. Captured leaders should reveal at least one base, if there is one on the planet. Capturing aliens is really pointless after you capture the first specimen of the kind. Radar research - there should be some kind of range increase/chance increase with these buildings. Having multiple arrays in one base should make for higher detection % (with diminishing returns - 1=100%, 2=170%, 3=230% etc. of base detection). I'm also missing a hyperwave decoder, but it's not really necessary. Air combat - too hard/too much impact for the minigame it is. Air combat should be an additional bonus minigame, not a make or brake it mechanism. Losing a plane is way too expensive, and without proper control you can lose quite a few. Missiles should fly faster - most alien craft are able to outrun the missiles in the later stages. I'm not saying that the first tech should be super fast, but missile speed and range should scale with their damage level (fusion missiles should cover half of the air combat map and go 3x as fast as their lowest tech version). Battleships seem unbeatable and dreadnaughts are in the files, but not in the game (yet?). I think you should have mag cannons and fusion torpedoes to bring down a battleship, but I wasn't able to bring one down without attacking it at least twice and getting most hits with fusion torps (2x foxtrot 1x marauder in each squad). It just seems overpowered. I'm not saying we should be able to bring one down with two f-17, but since I can absolutely massacre the land forces, I should also be able to swat the biggest UFOs like flies, once I get the appropriate tech. Speaking of which, there is no 'epic omgwtfbbq' weapon, like a singularity missile - we do get similar tech, and firing an exploding mini black hole at the bigger UFOs would certainly feel great. Armor - no floating armor to make the reapers obsolete :*(, reapers 1-hit-zombie everyone, regardless of armor (well, I haven't tried it with predator, but they should have to bring the HP down to 0 before zombification occurs. That is, 3 or 4 hits with predator, 2 or 3 hits with sentinel and instazombie for anything less. Otherwise I find the armor tech and balance quite fine. I'd add another armor between wolf and predator, acting as support to predator - predator is kinda endgame tech while wolf is early midgame tech, I feel like there's a huge gap there. Predator soldiers are invulnerable while wolves are easy to kill, I think there should be another armor developed with predator tech, that has less stopping power than predator, and same or better mobility as wolf. Tbh armors have a huge unexplored area, which is vision. I agree with early armors limiting your vision, but predator and sentinel should allow the user to view further than without an armor (cameras), and eliminate or extend nighttime vision hindrance. It even says in the xenopedia that the sentinel armor can see the whole EM spectrum, so the soldiers in it should see a lot further - 24 tiles or something extreme. Armors should also add accuracy - a basic HUD can have a reticule showing where the current weapon is pointing, so it makes sense the soldiers would be able to fire more accurately with one. Also more strength equals less recoil, which equals accurate burst fire. While burst seems the best option to use anyway, at least at short to mid ranges, there should be a difference in accuracy depending on the armor of the soldier. A predator should be able to burst with 40% acc compared to a 10% acc without an armor. Soldier weapons - I love the fact that there are three researchable weapon varieties. I am slightly disappointed though. While offering more damage, the better the tech, the less accurate the weapons seem to get a.k.a the accuracy always seems more or less the same, although my soldiers have almost 2x the rating. Imho it should be slightly different. Ballistic weapons are, and should be utter crap. Low accuracy, low damage. Laser weapons should have only 20% or so of a damage boost, while being extremely accurate, to the point rookies can shoot at aliens in cover with them. Plasma should have less accuracy but a lot more damage - say 200% ballistic, same acc as ballistic, and MAG should be terribly accurate AND have a lot of damage - laser rifle accuracy, 300% ballistic damage (yes, overpowered, but I'm exaggerating and it's endgame tech). As for weapon variants - imho the sniper should have max accuracy at the end of it's 1st max range, that is 28 tiles atm (I'd change it to 34, tbh, after all it is a sniper, not a shotgun), then a falloff to 50% at the end of the second range (yellow range). It's usually better to fire a rifle twice than firing a sniper once as it stands now. The sniper seems to have lower accuracy than a rifle at long ranges. The shotgun should have a 'spray' animation, not a single bullet. Psionics - though it seems psionics are far from fully implemented, I've noticed that some seem to be included. Mind control will eventually be part of the game according to the files. I've noticed the 'feeling of dread' in missions where the praetor is present. My two cents: they should only be able to panic you if one of their forces can see you. Either that or if you take into account they can see you everywhere in their base, remove fog of war from xenonaut base maps, since you can have cameras around the base and stuff - you should be able to see where the aliens are at all times. I seem to remember that psionics will not be available to humans, is that true? It does make sense, but it's kind of lame, not being able to play with the aliens like they (will) play with your soldiers. I'm getting the feeling this is due to having less work, not having to implement alien stats and inventory. TL;DR Damn that's a lot of post... I'm sure only three people have read it. Ever. All in all, I think this is the first game after the three x-coms released in the ninties that deserves to be called a spiritual successor, and actually improves on the concept, adds great features and has the potential to be a legendary game, just like the old ones. There are some pretty annoying bugs left, but it's a beta, barely out of its alpha diapers, so I expect it to be a brilliant bug free game when it's released. I've enjoyed playing it a lot, and I can only imagine what improvements future updates will add. Great game and best 20 Eur I've spent for a game ever
  18. What the hell with all that stuff? I killed all aliens on the map, why mission is not ending? First i thought the there was some sucker hiding somewhere, like lobstermen like to do on their sneakin underwater bases. Than I opened this forum and read the beginning of a thread Is it possible to actually secure an UFO? (Yes!) So i guesses, ok, i should try do this. So all my soldiers had a very funny party in this little flying saucer, all standing there and looking on their alien technology stuff. It was really fun 5 turns. Packed with action. And whoa - mission ended. And ok, we salvaged some alien tech pistols that's good, and my scientists are immediately ready to research them... but wait, how, my crew is still in Alaska, and they have pretty much hours to fly to their base in Minsk. Wow, those spots on geosphere... I can send interceptors to them. But how, how can I know? This game is a catastrophe. UI is hard to follow, sound is not working, gamedesign is no fun. Guys do something. Shooting aliens was still fun. But it take daaaaaaaaays for soldiers to sit or standup.
  19. I bought Xenonauts as an Early Access game. As such, it gives me an ability to affect the development of the game, which I am going to use. In this document I have tried to gather my feedback in a structured way hoping that some of the suggestions and feedback would make it into the final product. A) General I know there is a new UI in development that will hopefully fix a lot of the issues that I will mention below. Still, I will like to go through it in case there are some new ideas. Below are some general bugs/feedback/suggestions: A1. The tip of the mouse pointer is below the actual point that is picked when clicking the mouse buttons. Often you have to point on the line below to select the line you want to select. A2. The financial report that shows how much each region contributes cannot be accessed at will. It would be nice if it could. B) Geoscape I am happy with how the geoscape works, except one thing: The text sizes used are generally too small. The texts marked with red are hard to read and should be larger in my opinion. The texts marked with yellow are ok, but it wouldn't hurt if they were larger, too. C) Base Management The base management screen is generally fine, but I think it can be improved with the following changes/additions: C1. The text part of the window is a bit too wide in the sense that the dotted distance between the text and the corresponding number is too large. C2. Numbers alone is harder to read than numbers and bars in a combination. I suggest changing this information to something similarly to this: Each category gets a different color with a darker variant for ordered personnel that have yet to arrive. I think a bar like this is much easier to read than the current solution. C3. The construction part is missing a description of the module. The text size of the module names and the module information is too small. What about something like this: C4. Talking about storerooms, I have not been able to find the storage capacity of a storeroom, nor the amount of space my stuff takes up. Or has capacity been taken out of the game? That is, only one storeroom is needed in every base. If so this is an example of what can be put in the description of a base module.
  20. Heya all, i've been extensively playing beta since the steam pre-launch and i'm enjoying the game so far since i'm a big fan of the original x-com. Unfortunately i think the game it's a little too "dull" and lacks a little imagination. Not on its mechanics wich seems realy good, but in the design. For example the aliens are somewhat boring and don't apeal to a sense of mistery or terror. For example the "sectoids" are a very powerfull and iconic 1st alien that realy reminds people who play the original X-Com of the aliens that we know from RL movies and pictures, so we imidiately "relate" somewhat between the game and RL pictures. That is but a simple thing that draws us into the original X-com from the first mission. Unfortunately on Xenonauts the first races are not as good. Sectoids-look-alike are too similar to humans with a jacket and the lizards are just not very convincing. Also the game could use an intro that explains the iceland incident story. I did read about it but i'm pretty sure most people buying the game won't bother to do it. Also something that explain a little better what is the xenonauts. This is basicaly my main complain about the game, the lack of "character" of the alien races especialy the most iconic ones from the beggining. It doesnt realy make us feel we are fighting a force that is menacing and we can associate with RL fear and curiosity. We are just thrown into a geoscape, build stuff, intercept a craft and then when we see an alien its just "meh... was that an alien?" in X-com i was like "omg thats a grey one, i want to kill him and perform tests in him!", i am not as curious and drawn-in with mystery in xenonauts as i was with x-com EU (and even firaxis xcom wich is a much worse game for me than the original). Ofc i have to leave a few good words because the game realy is cool in many other aspects like the music that brilliantly creates a good vibe for the ground missions. Also the artstyle is realy cool and detailed, love it. I understand that a lot of the menus on the geoscape are still placeholders but they could have a major overhaul since they are mostly text inside rectangles only but i do love the artstyle of the hidden movement screen (for example). Sorry for my bad english.
  21. Hello, I've been playing Xenonauts for a while now, but stopped back around November or December to give the developers some time to work out the bugs that kept crashing the game. When I saw it appear on Steam, I figured I'd give it another go. Here are my opinions so far, just shy of one month in on normal. (My memories of the previous build are hazy, feel free to correct me when necessary.) No Jackal body armor to start with: Can't say I'm thrilled with the decision, but it does bring back memories of throwing legions of disposable rookies at the aliens from the first x-com, so I suppose I can work with it. Except for... Decreased capacity of the choppers: (I forget the exact capacity from the previous builds (12 soldiers, or-8/1 maybe?), but I'm pretty sure that it was more than 8 troopers or 6 troopers/1 armored car.) Excuse me?! Part of why I preferred Xenonauts over Enemy Unknown was because you could have enough soldiers on a mission to provide decent overlapping fields of fire, and losing one soldier wouldn't cause an entire flank to cave in. I'm ok with making do with lots of fragile troops on missions, I could accept being limited to a smaller number of armored troops, but being stuck with small squads of unarmored soldiers at the beginning is not acceptable. No starting armored car. I was never a big fan of the early game armored cars, but they did have their uses. (i.e. moblile cover for stun-stick capture teams) I'm not sure that it improves the game to have us spend time and resources to research and manufacture them rather than have them available to purchase. (Now that armored cars drop the already meager squad size down to 6, I don't think I'll use them much at all anymore.) Can't afford 2nd base right away. My previous games always started with me breaking ground on the second base the first month, usually before the first UFO was spotted. You pretty much had to if you wanted any kind of decent global response capabilities (given the limited range of our choppers) by the time the alien terror raids began. I'm trying to save up enough to get Base 2 funded, but given the rate I'm bleeding money replacing armored cars and soldiers I expect the world to be their playground by that point. No cover symbols: There used to be symbols that indicated the level of cover you could expect from a piece of terrain when you moved by it. I've been confused at several points now whether a given piece of terrain blocks line of sight, provides cover, or is just decoration. Better stability: Hasn't crashed once yet. This alone makes it worth coming back to the game, and I want to give my heartfelt gratitude to the developers for fixing the issues that made playing before so aggravating. (If it can make it past month 4 without seizing up I'll be really impressed.) Path of fire display: This is an excellent feature and I'm glad it's included. In addition to providing indications on how much you can expect cover to affect your aim, it gives you an idea how close you're going to be to shooting your teammates in the back. Squadsight is still present: I'd heard rumors people wanted to see it gone, I'm glad to see it's still with us. Considering how short soldier's range of view is, I think squadsight is a necessity. (Besides, the only people that have much hope of hitting at extreme ranges are snipers (who have every right to hit at long range) and machine gunners (who spray so much lead they're bound to hit something. Improved graphics: Maybe it's just me, but the ships look much better than they used to. Also, I have yet to NOT see a civilian due to invisibility, or have an alien corpse remain standing. Those are all the points so far, I'll update as I get farther in. In summary, I like that the game looks great and is a much more stable play, but several changes to recalibrate the difficulty went too far. I'll admit the last version I played may not have been challenging enough in the early game (Going the first 2 months without a KIA doesn't seem right), but the current arrangement is a huge disappointment and I hope a compromise can be reached. (I may start another game on EASY and see how it goes, but my pride really doesn't want to take that hit.)
  22. I played so many hours on the original I'm ashamed to admit it. I wish I had a couple of million dollars I could give you to develop this game and bring back that old feeling I had playing Enemy Unknown but on a 30 inch monitor. No other game ever captured me like xcom did. I know not everyone "gets it." I told my brother about this game and he just didn't "get it" I think that is the case of the negative comments. You either love this kind of game or not. I like the slow, deliberate pacing of this game. I call it "calm tension." BTW, has anyone actually met an internet forum troll? What kind of person are they? I mean, really? Can someone post a picture and profile of a troll? What kind of occupations did this kind of person have before the internet?
  23. djlogue

    Loving it!

    haven't played since late alpha and had a go just now, LOVIN' IT Cheers Xenomonkeys!!
  24. Saicafox

    Should I buy?

    I just want to say that i love the new x-com EU. I have also played Ufo extraterrestrials gold with all the good mods, really enjoyed that to. I am on the fence about this though. See i dont know if enough content is in it for me to enjoy it. I herd there are not a lot of maps or tech to research yet. As well as being limited on what you can do with your troops. I really just want to know if its worth it to purchase at this time?
  25. * I notice that I can destroy a wall (the gray cement things) nicely and walk right through the gap. However, while I can also destroy a hedge and shoot through the gap, I can not walk through it. Surely this is an opps. I would like to walk through destroyed gaps in hedges in a later version. * Should I get taking fire, but totally unable to see the shooter? I can see this argued several ways, just wondering if it was intentional. * Back at Base, I should be able to see the Health of my unassigned troops in the Squad Screen. As it is, I have to go to the Personnel Screen and back. I mention this although I later realized I can assign troops in or out of the active squad in the Personnel Screen. * Three out of five ground actions were on the same, or very similar map, but the location of the aliens were not the same. Early days, of course. Just thought I'd mention it. * I just finished a clinic in my base. Should I see something about this in my troops healing? I would think that moving them to a proper clinic from wherever they have been stuffed on their own with self-administered morphine and bandages should result in faster healing. BTB, I had one troop evac at 1% Health! Is slowly healing and even got medal. * I did not see any of the previously reported alien shooting through blank wall when my troops were right beside the wall. In one mission there was a very clear situation where I could see an alien on one side and my troops directly on the other side right by the wall and taking no fire. So I guess you guys fixed that one. * When installing via Steam, the desktop link lacks an icon. * The weights for items needs to be relooked, a pistol or rifle magazine does not weight a kilo. Adding a realistic number of mags gets heavy much too quickly. * The 'Belt' has far too few slots. I can carry a pistol and two mags. In reality, a pistol, four mags and two grenades would be kind of minimal. * The number of troop slots located at the bottom of the screen Base/AC Equipment/Dropships should be 12 instead of 6. There is plenty of space available, why not avoid unnecessary scrolling? * Really minor point, but it looks like the three guys in the first screen are all corporals, ie low ranking enlisted troops as opposed to the high ranking officers one would assume would be in charge of defending Earth. Looks weird or probably modeled on an army whose uniforms I'm not familiar. But then all the weapons that all the bases start out with are US issue weapons - which is also odd, somehow I don't see the Chinese using M16s. Maybe in later versions there will be regional weapons for the various regions? +++ Really like the fact that the game includes such an easy to use gameconfig.xml for making player tweaks. The idea that 40% of the combat soldiers available in any military in 1979 were female is beyond ludicrous. ??? In game the rank between Major and Colonel is Commander. Lieutenant Colonel is the rank I would have expected with a Commander being the naval equivalent of an army Lieutenant Colonel. Perhaps I'm being US-centric. Very early days at this saving of an ungrateful humanity. Seem to be having a lot of troops getting chewed up. Have had to take some missions with a Squad of only four troops, everyone else was back at base shooting morphine and applying their own bandages waiting for the union shop guys to get around to finishing the clinic. Having fun with this one.