Balance in V22 Experimental 10

[Belmakor]

Just a few thoughts from about 3 hours playing v22E10 (to put it into perspective the last time I played more than 30 mins was v22 stable).

Like the new additions to the music and sound effect, plus the new animations on the start screen.

Start a game on Veteran.

Didn't get first UFO in USA until mid September. What has happened to the two missions that are supposed to spawn?

First mission, crashed when picking up C4 and shield from dead soldier. Noticed that the shield was not damaged despite the soldier being shot from the front.

All but two of the nations decreased funding in first month. Fair enough I thought given that most of the activity appeared to be over Europe.

I'm losing about 2 soldiers on every mission even when moving carefully, using cover where possible and reserving time units. Seems a lot of enemy units camp in little nooks and crannies waiting for me to walk past. (I guess this seems fair!).

UFOs are an absolute bloodbath with often 3 or more camped in the main control room and another two in the reactor (though these latter two rarely seem to reaction fire or do anything!).

Crashed on 1st of October when arrival of two soldiers and straight to soldier equip screen

End of October and have teched to wolf, laser equipped all soldiers. Not enough alloy to make wolf despite doing at-least 70% of shot down UFOS (missed about 25% due to them moving too fast).

Every single country downed funding in October despite me shooting down almost everything over north and central america, net income was a pathetic 650k.

Caseans are far too accurate with burst fire at long ranges. They can hit me at a range of 10+ tiles with generally 2 out of 3 of a burst shot.

The equivalent for me to get two shots on target at this range would be about 7-8 aimed shots from my riflemen.

Caseans are far too deadly when holeing up UFOs even with the use of smoke. I'm losing 2 men minimum when storming them. Part of this issue is the UFO doors closing at the end of the Alien turn, the other issue is the fact that

smoke disspiates over 1 turn. This is for me currently the worst part of the game and the part requiring most balance (perhaps breaching charges as per Fire in the Hole mod?)

Laser weapons are seemingly destroyed when my Xenonauts die. Why is this? I thought only over-damage destroyed weapons.. As it is there is not enough alloys or Alenium going around to make more!

Another crash on moving from workshop to soldier equip screen after coming back from battle. Was my chinook in the air (possibly). I do know that one of the solidiers had come back from the dead...

Sebillians feel comparitively easy compared to Caseans once you tech to lasers and wolf. Especially in open spaces (about the same level of danger in the UFOs). They still seem to be able to see through walls though and often end turns facing my hidden soldiers despite their being very obvious threats directly in front of them.

Too much repetition in the map cycle. First two maps I played were both exactly the same (desert).

I have a gut feeling the accuracy calculations are wrong. I had a sniper miss 3 x 95% shots in open terrain. I've also had two soldiers both miss burst fire into the adjacent tile when the odds were 55% per shot. The enemy however seem deadly accurate at all ranges and rarely miss.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Belmakor

[kabill]

The bonus crash sites only spawn on Easy and Normal difficulty now. You're on your own in Veteran and Insane.

EDIT: Meant to add as well that you could try destroying the doors with C4 to stop them from closing. Don't know if it will help, but might be worth a try?

Edited May 30, 2014 by kabill

[Victor_Tadeu]

The crash in the soldier equipment screen is a know bug even when they released the last build. Chris even said they will make a big effort to kill it this weekend and, hopefully, a new patch comes out sunday fixing it.

[Chris]

It sounds like you're not using suppression properly. It's important to use MGs, flashbangs or shields if you're assaulting a UFO (or possibly smoke if it's Androns). But yeah, you are meant to be losing an average of a soldier or two a mission.

[StellarRat]

Caseans are far too deadly when holeing up UFOs even with the use of smoke. I'm losing 2 men minimum when storming them. Part of this issue is the UFO doors closing at the end of the Alien turn, the other issue is the fact that smoke disspiates over 1 turn.

You need to use MG and flash bangs to suppress them. Also, tossing in a couple of stun gas grenades will get you a long way toward winning. My trick is to have at least four guys right by the door and one guy on the MG back a bit. One guy opens, the MG fires, one or two guys toss in flash bangs and the last guy tosses a stun gas or charges in with a shotgun and starts killing aliens. Make sure to use your highest TU soldiers with the best reflexes and shotguns or pistols (they give a reaction fire bonus) on your entry team. Another tactic is to use two MGs and blow the door instead. Basically just hosing down the inside from a distance. Couple of rocket launchers with stun rockets works well too. Edited May 30, 2014 by StellarRat

[Solver]

My breaching strategy is now centered around flashbangs and distant MG fire also. Distant MG suppresses someone, flashbangs suppress the rest, then I try to focus kill one alien from the outside and close the door. Next turn one guy fires inside to suppress again and then I rush in with shotgunners to finish clearing. A shielded armored guy to draw fire with shotguns behind him works fine.

Smoke is still good, except it's now more useful at the beginning of your turn. Smoke it up, then rush a soldier through the smoke and take up a good position or, better yet, kill the alien from point-blank range.

[lemm]

Some tips:

Battlescape:

- If you find yourself in an unwinnable situation, just abort the mission, even if it's a terror site. Retaining your experienced operatives is the most important part of the battle. For instance, it's hard to combat Androns if you don't yet have laser tech, so just don't bother fighting them if you see them.

- In the early missions, use a lot of smoke (against caesans) and two shield guys. Crouching shield bearers are extremely useful for exploring in the open terrain, and are usually guaranteed to survive for at least one turn if they get caught in the open. Use high health, high TU, armored, inexperienced soldiers for this task.

- When breaching scouts, just stand back and fire machine guns in from range to suppress the guards in the ship after using C4, a rocket, or an MG to destroy the door. The only valuable part of the ship is the alenium reactor, so don't be hesitant to fire in explosives and blow everything up in the front room. You won't get as much money, but you'll still get operative bonuses which are far more valuable in the long run.

- Corvettes are harder to take out than scouts, but you should have stun weapons by that time, so use lots of stun grenades and rockets before going in. You might have to risk your shield-bearer to peek around the corner, but you can minimize the chance of death by giving him smoke cover before he goes around. Once he takes the reaction fire, have your experienced troops lob in grenades (or C4) to suppress, stun, or kill. Don't bother storming Andron corvettes in October, unless you happen to have electroshock grenades.

- Yeah, there aren't very many maps, but there is a community map pack, and more maps from the community will trickle in over time, once the game is done.

Geoscape:

- Wolf and Laser by the end of October is good.

- You need to get two bases up ASAP. The second one should be started no later than Oct 1. I always put my first base in the middle east and the second base in Northern Mexico.

I wish that the game required variable strategic approaches to the Geoscape, because the single best strategy is always to place the first base in the middle east and then quickly expand to America while getting two research labs up and running.

For example, the aliens could either focus on one region in particular and reveal their larger ships sooner, in which case you would only need one base with a lot of research capital; or, for the first few months, they could wage a more global assault with a lot of fighters while delaying their capital ships, in which case you would need to build many bases with many hangars, but you wouldn't need to spend as much on battlefield weapon research and production.

[StellarRat]

... better yet, kill the alien from point-blank range.

Yes, the shotgun rush with a high reflex soldier, followed by a point blank blast to the alien's head is most satisfying. Show no mercy! They want to wipe out your species! They'll give you none...

[Solver]

Yes, the shotgun rush with a high reflex soldier, followed by a point blank blast to the alien is most satisfying.

Especially when the soldier somehow manages to miss a gorilla-sized Sebillian standing close enough to smell its lizardly breath.

[StellarRat]

Especially when the soldier somehow manages to miss a gorilla-sized Sebillian standing close enough to smell its lizardly breath.

Wow! That's never happened to me at one tile range.

[Solver]

I haven't yet had a "full miss", but have had just 1 out of the 3 shotgun slugs hit.

[legit1337]

Lol, I've had a seb miss two point blank plasma shots. That guy was lucky.

[StellarRat]

You know now that I think about it there is one thing more satisfying than full shotgun blast at point blank range. The other night I put about 8 out of 10 rounds of laser MG into a Casean ship commander at point blank range. One of the misses hit his LT next to him.

[KevinHann]

Well the challenge should be getting your soldier to shoot at point blank range in the first place, not doing so and praying you "get lucky" once out of three tries

[StellarRat]

True, but missing badly is pretty rare at that range, specially if your guy is a veteran.

[Belmakor]

Interesting replies. I must admit I have never ever used a stun grenade in Xenonauts. I always just assumed this was for when I wanted to progress in capturing aliens (hadn't considered it as a suppression tool).

Don't worry I haven't been so remiss as to forgo flash bangs (which I always use when storming). The issue is only when there are 3-4 Cas's spread out in the first room that you nearly always get reaction fired.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

"Laser weapons are seemingly destroyed when my Xenonauts die. Why is this? I thought only over-damage destroyed weapons.. As it is there is not enough alloys or Alenium going around to make more!"

[kabill]

Can anyone shed any light on this?

"Laser weapons are seemingly destroyed when my Xenonauts die. Why is this? I thought only over-damage destroyed weapons.. As it is there is not enough alloys or Alenium going around to make more!"

The only time I've noticed this is with a squad wipe, which seems to lose you carried equipment but doesn't seem to have any effect on armour.

[legit1337]

Interesting replies. I must admit I have never ever used a stun grenade in Xenonauts. I always just assumed this was for when I wanted to progress in capturing aliens (hadn't considered it as a suppression tool).

Don't worry I haven't been so remiss as to forgo flash bangs (which I always use when storming). The issue is only when there are 3-4 Cas's spread out in the first room that you nearly always get reaction fired.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

"Laser weapons are seemingly destroyed when my Xenonauts die. Why is this? I thought only over-damage destroyed weapons.. As it is there is not enough alloys or Alenium going around to make more!"

Post a bug report.

[va_ghost]

Some tips:

Battlescape:

- If you find yourself in an unwinnable situation, just abort the mission, even if it's a terror site. Retaining your experienced operatives is the most important part of the battle. For instance, it's hard to combat Androns if you don't yet have laser tech, so just don't bother fighting them if you see them.

- In the early missions, use a lot of smoke (against caesans) and two shield guys. Crouching shield bearers are extremely useful for exploring in the open terrain, and are usually guaranteed to survive for at least one turn if they get caught in the open. Use high health, high TU, armored, inexperienced soldiers for this task.

- When breaching scouts, just stand back and fire machine guns in from range to suppress the guards in the ship after using C4, a rocket, or an MG to destroy the door. The only valuable part of the ship is the alenium reactor, so don't be hesitant to fire in explosives and blow everything up in the front room. You won't get as much money, but you'll still get operative bonuses which are far more valuable in the long run.

- Corvettes are harder to take out than scouts, but you should have stun weapons by that time, so use lots of stun grenades and rockets before going in. You might have to risk your shield-bearer to peek around the corner, but you can minimize the chance of death by giving him smoke cover before he goes around. Once he takes the reaction fire, have your experienced troops lob in grenades (or C4) to suppress, stun, or kill. Don't bother storming Andron corvettes in October, unless you happen to have electroshock grenades.

- Yeah, there aren't very many maps, but there is a community map pack, and more maps from the community will trickle in over time, once the game is done.

Geoscape:

- Wolf and Laser by the end of October is good.

- You need to get two bases up ASAP. The second one should be started no later than Oct 1. I always put my first base in the middle east and the second base in Northern Mexico.

I wish that the game required variable strategic approaches to the Geoscape, because the single best strategy is always to place the first base in the middle east and then quickly expand to America while getting two research labs up and running.

For example, the aliens could either focus on one region in particular and reveal their larger ships sooner, in which case you would only need one base with a lot of research capital; or, for the first few months, they could wage a more global assault with a lot of fighters while delaying their capital ships, in which case you would need to build many bases with many hangars, but you wouldn't need to spend as much on battlefield weapon research and production.

I disagree with the concept (not effect) of having to have two functioning bases immediately. Having two weak bases instead of one strong one and expanding from their is artificial. A great Napoleon quote after a colonel described how he'd defend France from attack by small groups of forces spread over the border. "What are you trying to prevent, smuggling?" The game shouldn't force us into a single defense strategy else it looses its ability to be a dynamic defense of earth instead of being a linear and static play-through. "You MUST do X, then MUST do Y"

[legit1337]

I disagree with the concept (not effect) of having to have two functioning bases immediately. Having two weak bases instead of one strong one and expanding from their is artificial. A great Napoleon quote after a colonel described how he'd defend France from attack by small groups of forces spread over the border. "What are you trying to prevent, smuggling?" The game shouldn't force us into a single defense strategy else it looses its ability to be a dynamic defense of earth instead of being a linear and static play-through. "You MUST do X, then MUST do Y"

I disagree. Strategically you must do the same thing every playthrough, expand as quick as possible for the most coverage while researching as fast as possible. How is that a bad thing? That is literally the only way to defend the planet, otherwise the aliens are just going to ignore your piddly 1 base and tear the planet to pieces around you.

The challenge and variety as you say, is the research paths you take and how you react to when things do not go your way in the game. The game is so variable that you almost have to take a different research path every time, due to unavailability of some topics or pressing need for others.

[va_ghost]

I disagree. Strategically you must do the same thing every playthrough, expand as quick as possible for the most coverage while researching as fast as possible. How is that a bad thing? That is literally the only way to defend the planet, otherwise the aliens are just going to ignore your piddly 1 base and tear the planet to pieces around you.

The challenge and variety as you say, is the research paths you take and how you react to when things do not go your way in the game. The game is so variable that you almost have to take a different research path every time, due to unavailability of some topics or pressing need for others.

I vehemently disagree in that one is forced to expand even before one can be successful as a proof of concept. Funding should come from eliminating aliens - in the sky and ground. Expanding even before one can effectively have some control in one sector is an artificial game concept. In the real world we expect results before anteing up again. Again - we all have to play the exactly the same way? And what research variation? X armor before Y weapon - big deal. A month of better armor vs a month of better available weapons to build. "Strategically you must do the same thing every play-through" I disagree with that concept in a strategy game of world defense. One workable strategy is not made for replay-ability nor is it realistic as a military strategy.

[legit1337]

I vehemently disagree in that one is forced to expand even before one can be successful as a proof of concept. Funding should come from eliminating aliens - in the sky and ground. Expanding even before one can effectively have some control in one sector is an artificial game concept. In the real world we expect results before anteing up again. Again - we all have to play the exactly the same way? And what research variation? X armor before Y weapon - big deal. A month of better armor vs a month of better available weapons to build. "Strategically you must do the same thing every play-through" I disagree with that concept in a strategy game of world defense. One workable strategy is not made for replay-ability nor is it realistic as a military strategy.

Xenonauts is not a military, it is a civilian organization (granted, with highly trained military operators) that has to answer to the governments of the world. If that means sacrificing military capacity to play politics for increased funding, that is what it means.

Even at that, would it not make greater sense to engage the aliens all over the planet instead of wiping them out completely in one area? You have to show the world that you are capable of defending them.

Edited June 2, 2014 by legit1337