Determing when objects block shots needs to be a lot better...

[redmage]

Folks,

Having played Xenonauts for a bit now (I bought in on Steam in early dev), I have to say that the

way that the game handles things like when an object blocks shots and/or friendly fire leaves a lot to be

desired. For example, when I'm behind a tree, if I aim at an alien, it *hits the tree*. I have to use a TU to

physically move my soldier from behind the tree in order to shoot things. The whole issue about objects in the

game (like small rocks) blocking shots from trained soldiers is absolutely ridiculous. Has no one else complained about

this? Is this a game engine issue or a design decision? If the latter, I'd really like to see the devs fix this.

-- redmage

[Max_Caine]

All objects in the game have a stopping chance. The object with the highest stopping chance between target and targetter is highlighted when aiming at something. This object is highlighted in red, and the chance of it stopping the shot is listed. If you feel that some objects should have a smaller stopping chance than they do at the moment, why not look at the stopping chance that objects have and suggest some values?

[redmage]

All objects in the game have a stopping chance. The object with the highest stopping chance between target and targetter is highlighted when aiming at something. This object is highlighted in red, and the chance of it stopping the shot is listed. If you feel that some objects should have a smaller stopping chance than they do at the moment, why not look at the stopping chance that objects have and suggest some values?

My beef is that I seem to be playing in Flatland. It seems like the game code doesn't allow people to do things like lean around objects to be able to fire. If soldier A is on a level above soldier B and soldier A is firing at a target, (and soldier B is theoretically on the same line) I shouldn't be hitting soldier B at all. But because there doesn't seem to be a realistic calculation of when an object can and can't get in the way of a shot, I see these really absurd friendly fire and/or blocked shots. It's really taking away from the enjoyment of the game...

-- redmage

[quiescat]

the TU you used to walk to the side of the tree that is your lean around to shoot its just not fine tuned as a single player fps.

start thinking of all the rocks you see laying around as at very least chest high, and the guys your shooting at ya there trying not to get shot in the face. so in theory they are trying to use the cover there behind. despite the fact that the turn based nature of it all makes it look like there just standing still ready to get shot in the face.

the friendly fire i will give you takes a bit of working with largely due to the fact that your lines of fire not perfect, however if you have dude A kneeling in front of dude B he can be shot over with out risk, but if there is one tile spiting them its no longer risk free shooting over that guy. when you have guys running in groups they either need to be split pretty far left and right (3-4 tiles) or need to be on top of each other front to back out side of that friendly fire gets risky. think civil war musket lines.

[redmage]

the TU you used to walk to the side of the tree that is your lean around to shoot its just not fine tuned as a single player fps.

start thinking of all the rocks you see laying around as at very least chest high, and the guys your shooting at ya there trying not to get shot in the face. so in theory they are trying to use the cover there behind. despite the fact that the turn based nature of it all makes it look like there just standing still ready to get shot in the face.

the friendly fire i will give you takes a bit of working with largely due to the fact that your lines of fire not perfect, however if you have dude A kneeling in front of dude B he can be shot over with out risk, but if there is one tile spiting them its no longer risk free shooting over that guy. when you have guys running in groups they either need to be split pretty far left and right (3-4 tiles) or need to be on top of each other front to back out side of that friendly fire gets risky. think civil war musket lines.

Yeah, but we're not using civil war muskets, we're supposed to be using modern day weaponry (Think M16's) While we do have friendly fire incidents in real life. how many of them are soldier A shooting soldier B in the back from a few yards away?

-- redmage

[Gauddlike]

The game has no idea what an object actually is.

All it knows is that the tile in front of you has an object with a 50% stopping chance (as an example).

It has no way of knowing if that is shown to the player as a waist high rock, a tall narrow tree, or a kneeling soldier.

As far as it is concerned they are all just an object taking up 50% of the tile.

When you eyeball the shot it looks like it should go straight past the tree or just over the rock.

However the game cannot see the image you are using to base this on.

It just knows if your shot passes through any part of that tile, even a corner where there is no image shown, it has a 50% chance of getting stopped.

Remember the game engine can only use 2d sprites not 3d models so there is no mesh or hitboxes, each tile just has a stopping chance value.

The only way to prevent the friendly fire you talk about in this game engine would be to disable it completely.

That just wouldn't be x-com

The game has been bad with different height levels from the start.

The engine used is frankly rubbish and should never have been considered for this type of game.

Goldhawk have been fighting with it just to get the basics working but by the time they realised their initial coder had made a bad choice they had gone too far to throw it out and start again.

There have been a few threads now discussing the merits/problems of leaning from cover in a turn based game so not going to go over them again but feel free to look them up and throw your thoughts in if they haven't been covered.

[Chris]

There are genuine LOS issues with corners of buildings that we'll be looking into. Also, you can shoot over any cover in the adjacent square to the shooter with no penalty, which represents leaning around the cover you are in.

The other stuff I don't really see a problem with. If a crate has a 50% chance of stopping a shot, it reduces your chance of hitting the enemy by 50%. The logic is that there's only 50% as much of the enemy visible....but as people have said, it's a 2D game. All the game knows is that there is an intervening object with 50% chance of stopping a shot, not that it's a box shaped object on the ground or a tall thin object etc, so the calculation can be odd sometimes.

The friendly fire system is a bit janky in places, but I'm not sure what you're complaining at is an issue. You're basically saying that if you put a soldier directly behind another soldier and then order him to fire through his comrade, you shouldn't get any friendly fire? If that's the case, you should be spending your TU to move your guys a tile to the left or right so they have a clean shot. That's how it works in real life - you don't get those friendly fire incidents mostly because trained soldiers generally don't try to shoot through one another.

[Monifix]

Well, I think the cover system is very well made, possibly the best innovation of them all in this game compared to the originals. I find it both intuitive and fair (with a few exceptions like the one Chris mentioned above.)