Gauddlike Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Androns don't bleed. If the problem is that hits for zero damage look like a miss then I am not sure how removing damage indicators would help, maybe I am misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arghy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I only play on veteran and i've been having some silliness like a guard caesian not getting hit from 4 tiles away by 7 goddamn AR bursts. It was inside a storage shed on a military base with no cover and no one landed a hit after 5 turns until one of my dudes just gets iced out of no where. If burst fire is going to be so expensive there should be another class of rifle, make the soldiers use strong semi auto rifles then have a less accurate AR for close in/suppression work. You would have the choice of the M14/SKS which would use the standard snap/normal/aimed shot and M4/AKU with a 30 round clip that only has burst(4)/aimed/suppressing(10). As it is now the burst fire is purely for suppressing and nothing else which is really silly--why would you use an automatic weapon in single shot when you could use a semi auto weapon to much greater effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Androns don't bleed.No, but the could splash tan colored "blood" to show hydraulic fluid spewing when they get "hurt". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Yeah you could make them just like all the other aliens, I prefer there to be some differences. Lack of blood, whatever colour or name you use, helps to highlight their mechanical nature to me. Sparks or something could be used to show hits though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arghy Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Jesus what the hell is wrong with grenades? i can see you might not be able to throw it right on target but COME ON RIGHT AT YOUR GODDAMN FEET?! I've been TRYING to storm a landing craft for 6 attempts now and every goddamn time i get to the ship and some idiot or in my last attempt 3 GODDAMN IDIOTS fumble their stun nades and knock out my entire team! Literally 3 guys in a row, i was going to retreat and wait for the gas to clear but i had to ensure the aliens wouldn't gain a foothold while i waited and 3 attempts at 40-60% all at their own feet. There should be 3 tile minimum arc where they can fumble it--if their throwing it 13 tiles away it should land somewhere in a 30 degree arc 8-13 tiles away not right at their feet. These are hardened professionals not rookies--at the very least they should know how to throw a damn grenade haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpelectric Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Jesus what the hell is wrong with grenades? i can see you might not be able to throw it right on target but COME ON RIGHT AT YOUR GODDAMN FEET?! I've been TRYING to storm a landing craft for 6 attempts now and every goddamn time i get to the ship and some idiot or in my last attempt 3 GODDAMN IDIOTS fumble their stun nades and knock out my entire team! Literally 3 guys in a row, i was going to retreat and wait for the gas to clear but i had to ensure the aliens wouldn't gain a foothold while i waited and 3 attempts at 40-60% all at their own feet.There should be 3 tile minimum arc where they can fumble it--if their throwing it 13 tiles away it should land somewhere in a 30 degree arc 8-13 tiles away not right at their feet. These are hardened professionals not rookies--at the very least they should know how to throw a damn grenade haha. Lol your post has me cracking up. But yes, you're absolutely right, I've had my guys merrily toss grenades at their own feet multiple times, and that IS just plain stupid. I've seen 6-year-olds playing T-ball throw far better. The entire mechanics of grenade accuracy and placement are way out of whack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arghy Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 If there is a chance for the nade to bounce off things i should see a 'block %' show up so i know that this can happen otherwise the nades should always travel a distance just not land where i want them to if they fail. I'd love to be able to count on this block % to be able to bank them around corners also--hit crlt and throw them against a wall for 100% block to bounce them around a corner would be friggin awesome but just make sure they cant travel more then 2-3 tiles or they will fly back towards the users haha. I used to have 2 shields now i have 1 shield and 1 grenadier haha, he just carries 3 of each nade and a pistol and if he cant carry more i try to get as many nades as i can get on him. Hes the man who chills in a safe spot until we cleared to the closed door then its his job to never stop throwing nades until the mission is complete! Abilities that cant be used twice even from full TU's should be tweaked down--a MG should be able to shoot 2 bursts from full TU's otherwise its absurdly wasteful, whats the point of getting him in position when he can only ever get 1 shot off? You should be rewarded for good placement--flushed that andron into a firing lane? then that sniper who's been sitting there doing nothing should be able to get 2 aimed shots off. A RPG man should be able to fire and reload in a single turn if hes done nothing else. Grenades should also suppress you a little if their thrown directly at you haha, add some incentive to hitting the alien rather then next to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpelectric Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I agree with a lot of your points, especially about a double-tap sniper who's been camping, and a RPG man able to fire and reload. However, in the interest of game balance, you'd have to give the same abilities to the aliens, and be prepared to turn a corner and have a harridan put two plasma sniper rounds into your skull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lidhuin Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Next time one of your rookies or even commanders throws a grenade at their feet, just imagine this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDltw0y1C1U Note that this is a perfectly quiet situation with no stress of any kind. No one is shooting at them and they have all the time in the world. The rookie still doesn't throw the grenade. It can happen to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selvhan Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 You are comparing a china rookie to the best soldiers available on earth ? It can happen to anyone but it seem that our soldier are not the best at throwing. Might need a baseball trainer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpelectric Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Next time one of your rookies or even commanders throws a grenade at their feet, just imagine this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDltw0y1C1U Lol. In honor of that video, I'm gonna give my soldiers names like Ho Lee Fook and Luke Out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 ...be prepared to turn a corner and have a harridan put two plasma sniper rounds into your skull...If you use your guys with high reflexes and a weapon with a reaction bonus (pistol/shotgun) you can go around corners. etc... and avoid getting drilled. Just remember to leave enough movement points to get back around the corner if something nasty is on the other side. Timing is everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lidhuin Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 You are comparing a china rookie to the best soldiers available on earth ? It can happen to anyone but it seem that our soldier are not the best at throwing. Might need a baseball trainer You go face aliens and tell me if you can still throw straight Still, I would say it's entirely possible to drop a grenade every once in a while. And I'm okay with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arghy Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Yeah i can see a 3-5% chance to drop it at your feet but it should be out of a 60% chance: - 60% chance to go right where you throw it - 30% chance to land anywhere in a 30 degree arc 1-2 tiles from where you aimed - 5% chance to bounce off something in that arc and go in a new direction - 5% chance to land at your feet but not detonate till the end of your turn There should be a stat showing a block % showing you objects that it might potentially rebound off but if there is nothing in the arc it should now be a 35% chance to land anywhere in the 30 degree arc and STILL 5% chance to land at your feet but not detonate till the end of your turn. These are the best of the best who have seen aliens either through pictures or their corpses and some of them even faced live ones and killed them. Throwing a grenade is not something their going to mess up 99% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thixotrop Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Jesus what the hell is wrong with grenades? i can see you might not be able to throw it right on target but COME ON RIGHT AT YOUR GODDAMN FEET?! I've been TRYING to storm a landing craft for 6 attempts now and every goddamn time i get to the ship and some idiot or in my last attempt 3 GODDAMN IDIOTS fumble their stun nades and knock out my entire team! Literally 3 guys in a row, i was going to retreat and wait for the gas to clear but i had to ensure the aliens wouldn't gain a foothold while i waited and 3 attempts at 40-60% all at their own feet.There should be 3 tile minimum arc where they can fumble it--if their throwing it 13 tiles away it should land somewhere in a 30 degree arc 8-13 tiles away not right at their feet. These are hardened professionals not rookies--at the very least they should know how to throw a damn grenade haha. Had now a game with a Caesan landing ship. Throwing grenades is so untrustworthy. Three of my soldiers should throw grenades from entrance into back of entry room to lay a carpet of stun gas. But 2 out of 3 manage to drop it max 2 tiles away, hence stunning the whole boarding team. Was annoyed and reloaded, same result, other soldier, reloaded..same and so on, unless I saved when one grenade was ok, and tried the other two. I don't do that reloading normally but with grenades... But maybe we should be lucky. In v19 grenades were constantly stopping at obstacles, however small the little daisy flower wqas the grenade had to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 What sort of accuracy do you have on these shots? I don't seem to have the same level of problems, unless people are exaggerating their examples to show them more clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifehole Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 When a grenade is inaccurate I think it should travel atleast like two tiles barring an obstacle, but most misses with grenades result in the soldier just dropping it a tile away. I think grenades are kinda balanced not out of realism but out of lack of any other small radius explosion device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arghy Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 What sort of accuracy do you have on these shots?I don't seem to have the same level of problems, unless people are exaggerating their examples to show them more clearly. I've had dropped nades with 43/56/63/72%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 It is probably the way we use them then, I tend to drop them pretty close so I am probably just not noticing the variance between the 6 tiles I am aiming and the 4 it is travelling or whatever. It would be nice if the accuracy roll controlled the distance in some way. The grenade should still have a chance of landing at your feet but it should be a rare and panic inducing moment. If it happens regularly it loses the impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thixotrop Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) What sort of accuracy do you have on these shots?I don't seem to have the same level of problems, unless people are exaggerating their examples to show them more clearly. 35% / 39% / 76% / 58% / 29% / 82% / 62% I haven't seen any over 90%. But even with 29% and trying to throw near the max throwing distance...2 tiles away. Come on. What I understand in the percentage value is similar to shooting. It is the probability if the shot/throw ends in the target, alien for shots, tile for grenades. Maybe this is wrong? If it is the actual throwing performance the soldier will do that has a probability to fail, then I think it is gravely wrong. I would expect that the grenade will land wrongly around the targetted area. When, with the lowest number of 29% from above, the end tile of the grenade is two tiles away from the soldier, where is 5%? Between the boots? And the target area will require then something about 99.9999% with the tile next to it being 98%...ok I exaggerate here. However, I think the actual throwing succession seems to have nothing to do with the %-values. Maybe something interferes after the % are calculated. I have seen that the %-throwing-value of a soldier crouched behind a small metallic wall inside the ufo was the same as when he stepped one tile backwards having one tile between him and the wall. Near the wall the grenade landed near him in all trials. Stepped back the 2/3 success could be seen. Edited March 29, 2014 by thixotrop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpelectric Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I have seen that the %-throwing-value of a soldier crouched behind a small metallic wall inside the ufo was the same as when he stepped one tile backwards having one tile between him and the wall. Near the wall the grenade landed near him in all trials. Stepped back the 2/3 success could be seen. I've noticed the same thing. If you have more of an unobstructed arc to throw your grenade in (i.e. step back from a wall) it definitely has a better chance of travelling where it's supposed to. That makes logical sense to a certain degree. But in no way is this reflected in the % chance of success value that is displayed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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