Ground Combat Balance - V21 Experimental 5

[frank_walls]

Sorry to change the subject, but I'm finding some frustrating behavior in an attack on my base. My weapons are creating very little suppression while a large % of alien shots are suppressing my men. Including snap shots.

Also, the aliens reaction fire is extremely high and mine is very low to almost non-existent. I'd say 50-75% of the aliens manage to squeeze off 2 reactions shots. What's happening is I'm positioning my guys behind cover around a door, I open the door, and toss a grenade. 2 to 3 aliens are getting 2 snap shots at my guys after that. This destroys their cover, suppresses them, and wounds them.

Is there something off with that part of the game or am I just sucking that bad? I have some pretty experienced guys in there also - a Commander, a Major, 2 Captains, a Sergeant, 2 Corporals, and 2 Privates.

EDIT: Attempt 5. Everyone died. Rockets don't help because they take a full turn to reload. Grenades help a little, but can't go very far and can only be thrown over beds. My guys are constantly suppressed and can barely move. Can't reload because that takes a turn and then the aliens run up and shoot my guys before the next turn. I'm trying once more then I may have to start over.

EDIT: Attempt 6. Gave up after 7 out of 9 guys died, including my Commander and Major. Seriously not fun. I gotta say, if my one Commander could move AND shoot in the same turn it would make a huge difference. Also, please fix the corner exploit for aliens. I lose so many guys from getting shot by aliens through corners. Either make it so I can shoot through corners too, or make it so they can't.

So I feel like everything is balanced with my guys now - they all suck equally regardless of rank.

Edited March 7, 2014 by frank_walls

[kabill]

Sorry to change the subject, but I'm finding some frustrating behavior in an attack on my base. My weapons are creating very little suppression while a large % of alien shots are suppressing my men. Including snap shots.

Also, the aliens reaction fire is extremely high and mine is very low to almost none existent. I'd say 50-75% of the aliens manage to squeeze of 2 reactions shots. What's happening is I'm positioning my guys behind cover around a door, I open the door, and toss a grenade. 2 to 3 aliens are getting 2 snap shots at my guys after that. This destroys their cover, suppresses them, and wounds them.

Is there something off with that part of the game or am I just sucking that bad? I have some pretty experienced guys in there also - a Commander, a Major, 2 Captains, a Sergeant, 2 Corporals, and 2 Privates.

EDIT: Attempt 5. Everyone died. Rockets don't help because they take a full turn to reload. Grenades help a little, but can't go very far and can only be thrown over beds. My guys are constantly suppressed and can barely move. Can't reload because that takes a turn and then the aliens run up and shoot my guys before the next turn. I'm trying once more then I may have to start over.

What type of aliens are you fighting? If it's Sebs, they're very resistant to suppression (they only take half suppression damage), while Androns are flat-out immune.

From doing a base defence the other day, I'd recommend not just waiting for the aliens to come to you and using a team of soldiers to move around to the flank of the alien's attack-position. That way you can get more shots on them and can avoid having all your soldiers being suppressed by the same one or two shots. (I also managed to catch some sneaky Reapers trying to outflank me doing this as well!). If you're having trouble with reaction fire, you could always try throwing a smoke grenade first before throwing your frags to minimise hits.

(It's worth baring in mind, though, that I lost said mission! But I was vastly under-equipped after a Terror Mission gone bad and managed to kill all but the last alien who heroically proceeded to kill my last four soldiers. It was a sad day, but I'm glad that the base defence missions are tough: it's actually made me inclined to try out base-defence facilities in future games!)

[frank_walls]

What type of aliens are you fighting?

Wraiths & Ceasans. Yea, I've tried flanking, smoke (helps a little), flashbangs, rocket and grenade spam, barging in, and camping. All except 1 of my guys has good equipment too. It's all plasmas, a couple of lasers, and wolf armor.

I'm not trying to make it through with no casualties, but I'm losing over 1\2 my guys - many of which are good soldiers. Losing so many good well trained guys at this point means I'll have nothing but rookies left that will get slaughtered unless I grind scouts for awhile. At which point I have to hope there are no terror missions, etc.

Edited March 7, 2014 by frank_walls

[StellarRat]

Sorry to change the subject, but I'm finding some frustrating behavior in an attack on my base. My weapons are creating very little suppression while a large % of alien shots are suppressing my men. Including snap shots.

Also, the aliens reaction fire is extremely high and mine is very low to almost non-existent. I'd say 50-75% of the aliens manage to squeeze off 2 reactions shots. What's happening is I'm positioning my guys behind cover around a door, I open the door, and toss a grenade. 2 to 3 aliens are getting 2 snap shots at my guys after that. This destroys their cover, suppresses them, and wounds them.

Is there something off with that part of the game or am I just sucking that bad? I have some pretty experienced guys in there also - a Commander, a Major, 2 Captains, a Sergeant, 2 Corporals, and 2 Privates.

EDIT: Attempt 5. Everyone died. Rockets don't help because they take a full turn to reload. Grenades help a little, but can't go very far and can only be thrown over beds. My guys are constantly suppressed and can barely move. Can't reload because that takes a turn and then the aliens run up and shoot my guys before the next turn. I'm trying once more then I may have to start over.

EDIT: Attempt 6. Gave up after 7 out of 9 guys died, including my Commander and Major. Seriously not fun. I gotta say, if my one Commander could move AND shoot in the same turn it would make a huge difference. Also, please fix the corner exploit for aliens. I lose so many guys from getting shot by aliens through corners. Either make it so I can shoot through corners too, or make it so they can't.

So I feel like everything is balanced with my guys now - they all suck equally regardless of rank.

Chris said there is bug in alien reaction fire. Don't remember where or what but it gives them an advantage.

[frank_walls]

Chris said there is bug in alien reaction fire. Don't remember where or what but it gives them an advantage.

Ah. That makes sense. Especially since there's a room full of 8 aliens!

[kabill]

Wraiths & Ceasans. Yea, I've tried flanking, smoke (helps a little), flashbangs, rocket and grenade spam, barging in, and camping. All except 1 of my guys has good equipment too. It's all plasmas, a couple of lasers, and wolf armor.

I'm not trying to make it through with no casualties, but I'm losing over 1\2 my guys - many of which are good soldiers. Losing so many good well trained guys at this point means I'll have nothing but rookies left that will get slaughtered unless I grind scouts for awhile. At which point I have to hope there are no terror missions, etc.

You might find its a result of numbers. I'd missed that you only had 9 soldiers, which seems low for the point at which you're at (it sounds like you're at the point where you'd have a Shryke and therefore usually have 12 soldiers/mission. Given that base attacks are more difficult than most other missions, it might just come down to lack of numbers).

Chris said there is bug in alien reaction fire. Don't remember where or what but it gives them an advantage.

Don't know if this is what Chris meant, but there seems to be a bug such that only shooting (and other offensive actions?) count towards the number of TUs an alien uses for the purposes of reaction fire. It seems to be the case that if an alien moves or is suppressed and does nothing then it can fire reaction shots as if it had it's full TUs. I'm not 100% certain, but there's definately something up with reaction fire after being suppressed and I've spotted aliens moving a fair distance and still getting full reaction fire.

[Chris]

Reaction fire works by comparing the Initiative score of units ( % of remaining TU * RFL stat * weapon modifier), and if the aliens have a higher score they can reaction fire at you until they don't.

The bug is that weapons that can't reaction fire - MGs and rocket launchers - give your units a 0 Initiative because they have a 0 weapon modifier. Standard weapons are unaffected.

If you don't want to be reaction fired at, then perform actions with soldiers that have a lot of TU remaining or those armed with pistols / shotguns. They double the unit's reaction score.

[Max_Caine]

Hi frank. If you could PM me either a screenie or a savegame (uploaded to a filehost), I'll have a try myself.

[frank_walls]

Hi frank. If you could PM me either a screenie or a savegame (uploaded to a filehost), I'll have a try myself.

Not sure if the newest update changed things yet. But I'll get you that saved file when I get home from work later. It could definitely be the numbers, and I usually have 12 guys in my base. It just happens that I finished a mission and lost a few guys, my planes are all damaged from taking down a massive UFO, and I don't have enough time to hire new soldiers. I've basically been put into check by the game and I haven't figured a way out yet without losing my base or almost all of soldiers.

Edited March 7, 2014 by frank_walls