Are flamethrowers still in the game?

[NoirWolf]

Dicyanoacetylene

Toxic, caustic, and burns at 5000C. For all your alien flash-incineration needs.

Hydrazine? Pffft. Put down that sissy lighter fluid and pick up some gasoline.

5000 C? pfft...

Recipe for extra crispy xenos:

1. Clip with a deuterium-tritium mix loaded into high melting point capsules (gold is one commonly used but in Xenonauts anything would do).

2. Inertial ignition fusion chamber with temperature triggered magnetic containment and syphoning system

3. Magnetic guide rails for ingredient nr 2's syphoning system.

4. One really good suit of powered armour (depending on how powerful the resulting fusion conflagration is within the chamber radiation and heat backwash from the nozzle might be an issue ).

Need I say how these things go together and result in finely baked aliens?

[EchoFourDelta]

Well, all that said, I'm talking about something that actually exists and could be reasonably safely carried and used with existing flamethrower design principles; something that can boil iron isn't going to balk at flesh. You very quickly hit a point where the overhead isn't really necessary for what you're trying to do (like using a 20-kilo block of C4 as a blasting cap).

[NoirWolf]

Well, all that said, I'm talking about something that actually exists and could be reasonably safely carried and used with existing flamethrower design principles; something that can boil iron isn't going to balk at flesh. You very quickly hit a point where the overhead isn't really necessary for what you're trying to do (like using a 20-kilo block of C4 as a blasting cap).

Powered armour can defeat such flamethrowers at range and maybe even up close. Using more exotic designs which transfer allot more thermal energy is thus required for heavily armoured aliens ( remember that the alloys cannot be melted using known tech, if my memory isn't failing me, which means they dissipate heat at prodigious rates, not enough to stop plasma but enough to stop regular flame based weaponry ).

[Elydo]

Yeah, the alien alloys are used as heat shields on the ufos at incredibly thin widths. Personally I'm wondering about the potential uses of aerogels in fictional armour tech.

[NoirWolf]

Yeah, the alien alloys are used as heat shields on the ufos at incredibly thin widths. Personally I'm wondering about the potential uses of aerogels in fictional armour tech.

Better off looking at non-newtonian fluids as aerogels need to increase in thickness to stop heavier slugs (speed isn't an issue if it's a sliver but if it's a 50-100 g slug it's a big problem if I am not mistaken).

[Elydo]

Not aerogels as actual armour material, but rather insulation. It wouldn't help to just put a layer behind an iron plate as heat would melt through the plate and destroy its integrity, then you ARE using frozen smoke as armour, heh.

[NoirWolf]

Not aerogels as actual armour material, but rather insulation. It wouldn't help to just put a layer behind an iron plate as heat would melt through the plate and destroy its integrity, then you ARE using frozen smoke as armour, heh.

Problem is aerogel stops heat not the other bits of the equation (plasma weapons main damage is dealt by heat, true but it also has, within this frame of reference, both a kinetic and a electromagnetic component to deal with, the bolt of plasma is after all thrown at you with enough velocity to make evasion impossible and upon magnetic bottle rupture the plasma on the out sheath would immediately react with the air around it thus forming both a heat wave in front of it and thin sheath of cool matter on its edges, it would actually be interesting to see a experiment comparing a 5000 C flame and a plasma projector's effects on aerogel).

[Elydo]

See, I always assumed the thermal effects upon a target of a plasma bolt would be secondary, as the point of impact would either be penetrated with a profile similar to a kinetic round or have enough energy dumped into its matrix to vapourise. The heat damage would radiate out from the impact as the energy levels within the target dropped below the level required to free atoms from the material.

Thus my thought that if you could deal with the initial impact of such a bolt, probably with ablatives, then aerogels would render the heat transference moot as well.

Edit: Much like with a bullet the actual penetrator is the primary issue but even if you stop that you need to deal with the shock wave propagating and causing damage deeper into the target.

[NoirWolf]

See, I always assumed the thermal effects upon a target of a plasma bolt would be secondary, as the point of impact would either be penetrated with a profile similar to a kinetic round or have enough energy dumped into its matrix to vapourise. The heat damage would radiate out from the impact as the energy levels within the target dropped below the level required to free atoms from the material.

Thus my thought that if you could deal with the initial impact of such a bolt, probably with ablatives, then aerogels would render the heat transference moot as well.

Edit: Much like with a bullet the actual penetrator is the primary issue but even if you stop that you need to deal with the shock wave propagating and causing damage deeper into the target.

Actually fusion grade plasma isn't dense at all thus the kinetic element is secondary, if the bolt is large enough it is even tertiary as you start getting much stronger EM radiation from the bolt (the higher the density of the plasma the more fusion events become likely thus the energy released by the bolt is higher, if the bolt is dense enough on impact even if you stop both the heat and the kinetic element you'd get microwaved or worse within your own suit, the armour would thus also have to include a Faraday cage of sorts to lessen the EM radiation hitting you which then adds several more kg onto a already massive suit, we're already well within terminator armour levels here in terms of size, weight and mobility).

[Elydo]

Well, Terminator suits were designed for maintenance work within fusion reactors.

[Msvknight]

Oh god....................

I've started something haven't I.

[NoirWolf]

Well, Terminator suits were designed for maintenance work within fusion reactors.

Actually I only see mentions that they were adapted from "heavy industrial gear" which could mean anything from something like what you said (though I will stress that you cannot work within a running fusion reactor even in a terminator suit because the plasma would get contaminated and you'd likely cook alive in the suit) to a industrial power lifter.

[Elydo]

Having looked into it further, I've discovered the typical lack of any consistency regarding 40k lore. Some sources state that terminator suits were directly designed for work in starship fusion cores and other highly dangerous industrial environments, some state terminator suits were adapted from those industrial suits, some say that the Tactical Dreadnought Armour project merely took inspiration from those sources and others with the intent to completely replace power armour, which I'd never heard before. I'd complain about this but I know from experience that GW proper doesn't care and the Black Library lore guys really like it that way. More creative freedom to them given they've effectively fostered an environment where anything at all could be false memories of times past, creative misinterpretation or even deliberate misinformation. It's quite genius in a way, even if it does piss off the pedant in me heh. But it does allow for certain minor-ish) levels of derision of places like Lexicanum, who will wildely extrapolate from the slightest fluff hooks and then insist they're canon when the creators themselves don't intend any such thing.

Sometimes I wish BL had full control of the lore though, then we might not get some of the abominations that have been released recently because 'the models are cool (debatable)' never mind that trying to justify them in universe requires you to give up on caring about whatever you thought you knew. But then I think it might not be that different. I shudder to think what some BL guys would come up with if they had carte blanche with ALL the fundamentals.

[NoirWolf]

Having looked into it further, I've discovered the typical lack of any consistency regarding 40k lore. Some sources state that terminator suits were directly designed for work in starship fusion cores and other highly dangerous industrial environments, some state terminator suits were adapted from those industrial suits, some say that the Tactical Dreadnought Armour project merely took inspiration from those sources and others with the intent to completely replace power armour, which I'd never heard before. I'd complain about this but I know from experience that GW proper doesn't care and the Black Library lore guys really like it that way. More creative freedom to them given they've effectively fostered an environment where anything at all could be false memories of times past, creative misinterpretation or even deliberate misinformation. It's quite genius in a way, even if it does piss off the pedant in me heh. But it does allow for certain minor-ish) levels of derision of places like Lexicanum, who will wildely extrapolate from the slightest fluff hooks and then insist they're canon when the creators themselves don't intend any such thing.

Sometimes I wish BL had full control of the lore though, then we might not get some of the abominations that have been released recently because 'the models are cool (debatable)' never mind that trying to justify them in universe requires you to give up on caring about whatever you thought you knew. But then I think it might not be that different. I shudder to think what some BL guys would come up with if they had carte blanche with ALL the fundamentals.

Well if the Horus Heresy books are to be believed (though I hear they're not accepted canon yet) then Land Raiders, Terminator suits and quite a few other current rarities were anything but rare during the Great Crusade and they were intended to replace some of the older gunk that the Emperor had to work with due to lack of STC tech (Titans are about the only thing I can think of that they weren't planing on mass producing and that for obvious reasons).

Either way in a fully functional and stable fusion reactor you do not want anything (and I do mean anything) that isn't magnetically shielded itself from the plasma and even then you cannot go directly into the core areas of a reactor because you'd disrupt the stability of the reaction mass which I'd assume even in advanced reactors would still rely on some self-containment via a coherent flow of plasma.

[Elydo]

No, the HH books are canon, and some of the best writing BL have released. The lore is pretty consistent and they're fleshing out one of the key elements of the entire mythos is a way that's adding to the universe rather than diminishing it. A lot of the technology from the time of the Heresy was still being innovated upon and improved as well as better access to rare materials allowing for widespread adoption of things that are mythical 10,000 years later. Fellblades, Volkite guns, jetbikes, the Legio Cybernetica. Supposedly Imperial Knights are still around, we "just don't hear about them"

[NoirWolf]

No, the HH books are canon, and some of the best writing BL have released. The lore is pretty consistent and they're fleshing out one of the key elements of the entire mythos is a way that's adding to the universe rather than diminishing it. A lot of the technology from the time of the Heresy was still being innovated upon and improved as well as better access to rare materials allowing for widespread adoption of things that are mythical 10,000 years later. Fellblades, Volkite guns, jetbikes, the Legio Cybernetica. Supposedly Imperial Knights are still around, we "just don't hear about them"

I still miss the Sisters of Silence .

[Elydo]

I am really looking forward to the book that will cover the Battle of the Webway. I made damn sure at last years weekender to find out if they were doing one (otherwise I was going to pitch it myself, heh. I'm sure that would have been successful) but they've already planned for it. I think they had an author in mind as well, but I'm not certain. Everything is subject to change regardless, but next time I see the BL guys I will again pester them.

[NoirWolf]

I am really looking forward to the book that will cover the Battle of the Webway. I made damn sure at last years weekender to find out if they were doing one (otherwise I was going to pitch it myself, heh. I'm sure that would have been successful) but they've already planned for it. I think they had an author in mind as well, but I'm not certain. Everything is subject to change regardless, but next time I see the BL guys I will again pester them.

Ask them for me if they plan on keepin space MacGyver (Caiphas Cain) on the rosters for the foreseeable future I love those books, one of only two series of books I am up to date with thus far ^^ (both with commissar protagonists, must've been one in a past life or something ).

[Elydo]

I think they would as long as Sandy Mitchell keeps writing them, even if some purists don't like humour in their Grimdark (Grimdark!). The Cain series is one of the most popular ones, I believe.

The great thing about the Cain books though, at least in my opinion, is not only has Mitchell managed to subvert the whole nature of the 40k setting, he's done with the highest consistency and adherence to the lore of any of the authors. No anti-gravitic skimmers falling off fucking bridges here.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Ask them for me if they plan on keepin space MacGyver (Caiphas Cain) on the rosters for the foreseeable future

To be honest, Cain seems more of a "Space Droopy the Dog" than MacGyver...

[NoirWolf]

To be honest, Cain seems more of a "Space Droopy the Dog" than MacGyver...

Neah, Droopy was clumsy, Cain is more of a Robert Downey Jr.-era Sherlock Holmes ( Droopy no tap hot Inquisitorial assh after all and you can tell from most of Vail's interjections that she holds a personal connection to Cain even though Inquisitors as a rule trust no one enough to build a personal connection to the degree of actually protecting a person who wasn't what you would call the most honest or upright of His Majesty's servants and after his death it would serve her no purpose to place his memoirs under inquisitorial seal).

[aajs]

I have been playing with the flamethrower settings but whatever I do with its ammo type etc,, I cannot get it to do any damage. I have been testing it on my fellow xenonauts and it always says resisted... It does a lot of damage to surrounding objects tho. Has anybody got this working to some extent. I would rather have it in my game with no perfect graphics than not have it at all.