Assaulting Downed Scout UFOs

[Ziggarius]

Just recently found out about this game, and went ahead with purchasing it. Been enjoying it immensely (when it hasn't been crashing on me, though I hear that will be fixed next patch).

However, I'm running into one really major issue that I haven't quite figured out how to handle...

Breaching into buildings, leap-frogging across open terrain, night missions where the Chinook lands right next to the UFO and I'm surrounded, no problem. I can deal with all of this without having any real casualties, maybe a wound or two, but that's it.

I also don't have too many problems with breaching the 'cockpit' area (the round part between the wings, is I assume the cockpit). However, when it comes to the cargo bay (the back part)... how the heck do you guys deal with the one lone alien that holes up in there? Sometimes I get lucky that they're in a blind-spot that I can grenade spam, sometimes they're in the open and I can take them out. Most of the time... they're looking right at the door, in a spot I can't hit with grenades (unless there is a way to bounce them? ), if I move a Xenonaut through the door, I get reaction fired upon, if I'm lucky I got enough AP for a shot or two (I've tried with shotgun, assault rifle, and pistol) but I don't seem lucky enough that the AP will be enough to kill it before I run out of AP, and next turn my Xenonaut is dead. If I'm particular unlucky, the reaction fire one-shots my Xenonaut in the combat armor.

One particular nasty example that I had. The alien was in that spot where I couldn't grenade it, if I try the grenades impacts on the corner of the door and blows up in the Xenonaut's face. So, I had to retreat the first one. Second one walks in pistol primed (I end turn at the door where the alien can't shoot me, then take one step to give me full APs), I got hit with reaction fire, then unloaded all pistol rounds into the Alien. It survived. Retrospect, I shouldn't have fired the third or fourth time, and retreated instead. Next round, my Xenonaut is dead due to no APs to retreat. So, I figure the alien must be near death after being hit that many times with a pistol. I march up a shotgunner, he gets reaction fired and dies instantly. I facepalm, sigh, and march up an assault rifle Xenonaut at this point (again, noting that I end turn at the door so I only pay 4 APs for a single square more before attacking with each of these Xenonauts), I get reaction fired, Xenonaut survives, but his APs for the turn goes down from the wound, and I barely have enough to full-auto, so I utilize it. Which was a three round burst I believe (First time I had used full auto with the assault rifle), of which, two shots hit and alien is still alive. Naturally, that Xenonaut is killed on the next enemy turn, so I'm down three xenonauts trying to kill one alien now. I think at this point I went "screw this", and set the rocket launcher guy to go in next, somehow the alien doesn't reaction-fire this time, I fire off the rocket-launcher finally killing the alien, and taking a little splash damage, and the combat ends as that was the last alien on the map.

So, what else is there that I can try doing, except throwing the privates I now have at the sole alien in the cargo bay so that I'm not losing my veterans instead? As I understand, while the interceptors can down a UFO, and the buildings are destructible, we can't actually blow open the cargo bay with explosives, can we? After all the grenades I chuck into the cargo bay, I'd think it would have happened by now. I tried a machinegunner out, and did not like the style of that weapon at all for normal play, and it would figure the one time I deployed a machinegunner, the cargo bay was empty. And I can't really think of anything else that I can try.

[anotherdevil]

the round bit is actually the engine room, the bigger bit the cockpit. The alien craft tiles aren't finished yet =p

Perhaps opening the door and sniping through would work? Also on the next build I believe the combat shield might make it in, perfect for these kinds of situations =]

[Gorlom]

Did you try using the rocketlauncher from a safe location through the door? I forgot if the rocket launchers explosion is larger then the grenades. Next time you might want to move more then one soldier in per turn if you encounter that =P

Haveing your pistol guy move further into the ufo and haveing your shotgun followup and unload would probably have had largest chance of sucess given your circumstances.

[TheTuninator]

It can be a bit tough, I agree.

I really want a passageway to be opened between the cockpit of the scout UFO and the cargo bay, as I feel that'd add a bit more flexibility to a player's assault options as well as being wholly logical.

[Ziggarius]

the round bit is actually the engine room, the bigger bit the cockpit. The alien craft tiles aren't finished yet =p

Perhaps opening the door and sniping through would work? Also on the next build I believe the combat shield might make it in, perfect for these kinds of situations =]

I wish that could work, but that is the problem. Open the door, and the alien is completely out of sight. Have to move through the door before you can even shoot, and by then you've been reaction fired.

I might have to try breaching it with two at a time... just concerned the one that moves farther will trigger double reaction fire? Not sure, I'll try it though. I'll see about getting a screenshot of what I see when it happens.

[Ziggarius]

It can be a bit tough, I agree.

I really want a passageway to be opened between the cockpit of the scout UFO and the cargo bay, as I feel that'd add a bit more flexibility to a player's assault options as well as being wholly logical.

This... immensely... it would help soooo much being able to breach from two doors at once.

[TheTuninator]

Yeah, it gets a little annoying to constantly have to loop around to the front of the UFO after clearing the engine.

the round bit is actually the engine room, the bigger bit the cockpit. The alien craft tiles aren't finished yet =p

Perhaps opening the door and sniping through would work? Also on the next build I believe the combat shield might make it in, perfect for these kinds of situations =]

I take it the "cargo bay" is going to be filled with interesting doohickeys once the UFO tiles are complete then? Interesting.

And yeah, I'm really looking forward to the riot shield, that's going to be a great feature.

Edited January 19, 2012 by TheTuninator

[anotherdevil]

Well I assume there are going to be some consoles etc. in the bridge part... =p

[BigityBalzworth]

This is where I envisionsed a flashbang grenade would come in handy. got a few aliens holed up inside a room in some structure? have a soldier toss in a flashbang and reduce the enemy's AP saved for reaction fire. Then you would be more able to catch 'em off guard and storm the room without being blasted to pieces as you try to get your boys through the door.

[Gorlom]

would th aliens get flashbangs (or comparable alien tech) too or player only item? Would the game still be challangeing enough with such an item ingame from what i assume to be start to early game.

[Ziggarius]

Well, as I mentioned I'd grab a screenshot.

Ended up with a "worst" case scenario. There were two in there. And both were outside of grenade spam range. Managed to only lose one Xenonaut this time. Definitely helps using grenades on both sides to setup a smoke field, lowers their chance at reaction fire it seems. In this scenario, I had my 1st xenonaut use two grenades, one on each side. Finally got it down which tiles I can target without the grenade blowing up in my face. Requipped the assault rifle, moved the shotgunner behind him (now that both grenades were used safely) waited a turn. I moved my Rifleman in first, he got shot, moved him another step, turned towards where the fire came from and used a 3-round burst to down him. \o.o/ And then... my rifleman got reaction fired in the back... and naturally died after taking two plasma rounds in total. Moved my shotgunner in range and downed the 2nd alien in two shots.

I really don't mind in areas where I screw up the tactic, and I lose a Xenonaut. But this "cargobay" is just bullcrap. I can't find a tactic that will prevent reaction fire. Not asking for the game to be easy, but it would be nice if the early UFOs did not have areas the aliens can hide in where they avoid all damage until they get their first shot off. If this is was a mid or late game UFO, I can understand having these hidey-holes they're using, though I expect there would be gear that could assist against those by then. Is there any chance that I am missing some starter gear I can use to get these two aliens?

[anotherdevil]

Did flashbangs (as we know them) exist in 1979? Perhaps that is something that the Xenonauts can steal and improve upon from the alien design?

Also don't forget the AI isn't final yet, that may change things up a bit!

Edited January 20, 2012 by anotherdevil
super duper-ness

[Gorlom]

Ziggarius how about grenading the entrance for smoke cover move in and then use more grenades (instead of rifle/shotgun/pistol) while inside the smoke?

[Ziggarius]

Do grenades not trigger reaction fire or something? Wish I knew all the rules on reaction fire for Xenonauts >.<

[BigityBalzworth]

I believe flashbangs were created in the 60's. I'm sure an organisition like the Xenonauts could get their hands on them. Sure the aliens could have them but that doesn't really strike me as alien technology. I don't really think they would unbalance the difficulty either. It would simply make available a reasonable tactic to employ against several reaction fire ready enemy units. Otherwise you may have to just throw a few men into the meat grinder, which doesn't make the game any harder, just more annoying. this wouldn't affect most reaction fire throughout the game, just the cases when entering a room full of trapt and pissed off aliens. They would presumably have a pretty short range of effect and AP reduction would be based on proximity to the blast. I think this could only add to the game, not take away from it. The more weapons and tactics available the better.

[Quartermaster]

Right now I agree that it can be very dangerous, but we need to keep in mind that when the AI changes (and can't see you through their backs) it will make breaching a little safer. That should reduce the amount of reaction fire being thrown at the user when breaching slightly. Plus the addition of riot shields should make a pretty significant difference when breaching UFOs.

[TheTuninator]

The danger should be alleviated somewhat once actual bulkheads get thrown into the bridge; the problem is just that right now there's no internal terrain, so the whole crew can open fire as you storm in.

I like breaching UFOs being highly dangerous, as it should be; I feel the problem right now is just that it's too dangerous on account of unfinished game features.

Flashbangs will have to be handled carefully; they'll be nice to have, but it's going to be quite tricky to balance them so as to avoid giving the player too powerful a tool for stunning and capturing aliens early in the game.

[Gorlom]

Do grenades not trigger reaction fire or something? Wish I knew all the rules on reaction fire for Xenonauts >.<

I was thinking more "smoke covers your entry" and incase theres an aiming penalty or you cant plain see the alien through the smoke a well placed grenade wont care about los through smoke.

[Okim]

Had the same difficulties with breaching UFO until i figured out that Ferret equipped with missiles is the best way to deal with those aliens hidden inside.

Usually i use this order:

turn1:

1. position a Ferret in front of a door

2. get a man with a shotgun to the door

turn2:

1. open the door by right-clicking on it, if there is an alien looking at you - kill him with 1-2 shots from shotgun (aliens do not react to opening doors for some reason).

2. wait until next turn

turn3:

1. move you soldier to safiety

2. fire two missiles inside the UFO. Usually this is enough to kill everything inside. If not - fire another one next turn.

I once managed to kill an alien inside the building by shooting right in front of it at the building. I don`t know if he was killed through the wall or hit through the window (that he was a bit far away from). Need to test if you can hit aliens inside the UFO by bombarding it from the outside.

BTW, never use explosives or bursts in the round room

Edited January 20, 2012 by Okim

[Chris]

The problem at the moment is that the aliens have 360 degree reaction fire and there's no combat shields in the game. I think the new AI model we're working on should help quite a lot...at the moment the AI is just a load of hacks cobbled together and you can tell in situations like this.

[Ziggarius]

The problem at the moment is that the aliens have 360 degree reaction fire and there's no combat shields in the game. I think the new AI model we're working on should help quite a lot...at the moment the AI is just a load of hacks cobbled together and you can tell in situations like this.

Yah, I was kind of wondering about that. Mostly just looking for ways to deal with it as is. I will try what Okim suggested.