anotherdevil Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 It will also be a good excuse to bring back the Evil Alien Shed. Damn that evil alien shed! Hopefully there is some evil graffiti eyes painted on it next time we see it =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Damn you Evil Alien Shed®! *shakes fist at shed* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I can see it being fun, but having the player set up everything seems like a bit too much coding to allow that. Perhaps though the plywood mock ups could be randomly placed (strategically) by the computer each time?Otherwise I like it! I can't imagine moving targets would be any harder than moving people - the most work I see is making the plywood targets, and considering they wouldn't need to be animated (or if you wanted to be fancy, a simple falling down animation when shot then reverse it to have it pop back up when necessary) that shouldn't be a nightmare like introducing a whole new enemy. The problem I have with using national guardsmen in this capacity is you'd have to handwave everything as being training rounds or be forced to create a whole new type of non-lethal ammunition, which is extra work and even if you did make shotguns have beanbag rounds and grenade launchers have teargas and so on, it'd defeat the purpose of testing the weapons because they'd behave differently. The alternative is "well, you just murder national guardsmen in the name of training" which I wouldn't be okay with. There's another problem if you're introducing these random national militarymen into your classified high security base, so there's atmosphere right there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think he was suggesting that having the player manually place the targets before a training mission might be too much hassle rather than adding a target dummy enemy type for the software to place. The various armies of the world run training missions regularly, very rarely does it involve wholesale slaughter of either side. If it makes you feel any better you could make sure the "dead" model isn't used, the "stunned" model can be used instead. Using the national guardsman model would be purely to differentiate them from your own troops. If armour was available in different colours I would suggest that instead but that would be a massive undertaking. Hopefully they will have different weapon models available anyway. They don't actually need to be REAL guardsmen, they could be other Xenonauts squads, rookies, trainers etc. Having training missions available inside the main campaign would be against the feel of the game for me. Using them as tutorials is fair enough though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 yeah how do you think people get chosen for the Xenonauts? They have to pass 'the culling' =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 "This is your entry exam... duck!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncannyGarlic Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm against bonuses for going through the tutorial. Imo it shouldnt be tied to a new game at all, not even through checkboxes. Imo it should be standalone and in chapters, so you can choose which part (geoscape, Ufo crassite, terror mission, night mission, base defense etc.) I agree on both counts, though I'd suggest further, more specific breakdowns. I'm pretty sure that most TRPGs have something to this extent, here's an example from Final Fantasy Tactics. Presumably some sort of in-game wiki (an updated version of the UFOpaedia) is planned as well so that could also cover it in text form (Civilization V comes to mind). I can see it being fun, but having the player set up everything seems like a bit too much coding to allow that. Perhaps though the plywood mock ups could be randomly placed (strategically) by the computer each time? Just having a preset map for some different general map types would be nice. For example, one for each ship design. That said, I've never had a problem with experimenting in game and reloading so a sandbox is an ultra-low priority for me. The problem I have with using national guardsmen in this capacity is you'd have to handwave everything as being training rounds or be forced to create a whole new type of non-lethal ammunition, which is extra work and even if you did make shotguns have beanbag rounds and grenade launchers have teargas and so on, it'd defeat the purpose of testing the weapons because they'd behave differently. It might be a bit annoying to make but a virtual reality/holodeck type sandbox is always a possibility, though I still think that the plywood is the most setting appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I don't see the need to having a separate tutorial for base defence, terror missions, etc. The missions aren't going to be so different that you will go into a new type and be completely lost. A good grasp on the controls and some basic tactics are all you need to get across in a tutorial. Discovering new situations and dealing with them is a big part of the game for me. A single training mission that has a decent set of information on what to click and what to avoid should be more than sufficient. If the mission uses random maps and objectives, in the same way as a ground mission, you could get a nice variety of experience if you felt the need to replay it. The focus should be on helping new players get to grips with the game, not adding a whole new skirmish mode. That can be safely left to the modding community and give the devs more time to focus on the main game. I can see why having a geoscape tutorial separated from the ground combat or base management might be worthwhile. I prefer the idea of tying it all together simply because it flows better that way and the game is all about immersion. That doesn't mean you can't do the sections individually of course, just that they should have a common theme and flow to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 And that's what is so beautiful about the Icelandic incident =] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Neither a skirmish mode or a tutorial - as Garlic described it, it'd be a sandbox. I posted it in this thread because I felt it was in a similar vein to a tutorial and because if needed the tutorial could probably be set in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I don't see much need for it myself (if I am understanding you correctly). A safe environment with no enemies wouldn't give much understanding of the power of one weapon type over another. They will pretty much be the same weapons but with different ranges and damage output so there will be limited need for new tactics as you research, for example, a new grenade. That grenade will be thrown just like previous grenades, it will just do more damage or have a different effect on impact. Designing new maps, targets, and an object placements system for this mode that may not be used much seems like a bit of a waste to me. That was one reason I suggested reusing the national guard models and a random map (with an Evil Alien Shed instead of ufo) for a tutorial. Once you know how to throw a grenade, or shoot a gun, you will be able to use any of those weapons. I can see the appeal of having somewhere to try out new tactics. I would usually try it on a mission, preferably an easy mission with a secondary squad. At least the tactic would be tested against the enemies it will be used against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 TBH when I suggested my chapterized version i did not expect a whole playable level. I expected 1 turn = 1 lesson, when done skip to the next kind of thing. Possibly a sandbox situation at the end if you want to try tieing it all together however you want. I'm not sure how I feel about the tutorial blending into the story/rest of the game. IMO those are often kinda ranty and drawn out, hard to make them short and consice if you also ahve to tell a story with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 but the story is all there. Just need to come up with a bit of air combat (which is also kind of covered), and the tutorial is basically written for you. Basic structure: - Soldiers go - do tutorially stuff - die in nuclear explosion fast forward 20 odd years and bam! beginning of the game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 - do tutorially stuff made me giggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 By a theme and consistent story I was referring to within the tutorial. I would set the date of the tutorial quite some time before the game, possibly closer to the Iceland Incident. I would personally avoid the incident though as there is no real way to win and remain within the background story. Using the training mission example the theme could be: 1, Getting the base set up (troop quarters, medical bay etc) and some basic research/ construction. I would research and manufacture something like a stun rod prototype as they are not really common equipment in the 70's. 2, Buying a transport and escort craft and equipping them and the soldiers for the training mission. 3, Use the geoscape to run some training intercepts and deploying the dropship. 4, Ground mission against NG opfor (with Evil Alien Shed). This could be split into a breaching mission, ranged combat mission etc if you needed to focus on any of those points. I would probably just have specific equipment on certain troops. General tips like "Now select someone with a stun rod and go hit this guy" without a pass or fail check would do, you shouldn't fail a tutorial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 You should if you really suck =p Fail the tutorial *aliens invade! Not suitable commander was found for the Xenonauts! Game over* =p maybe not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It would be funny though if it was a standalone tutorial that you didnt have to go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncannyGarlic Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 TBH when I suggested my chapterized version i did not expect a whole playable level. I expected 1 turn = 1 lesson, when done skip to the next kind of thing. Possibly a sandbox situation at the end if you want to try tieing it all together however you want.I'm not sure how I feel about the tutorial blending into the story/rest of the game. IMO those are often kinda ranty and drawn out, hard to make them short and consice if you also ahve to tell a story with it. Agreed on all accounts. The best tutorials are the concise ones that are all about teaching the game. I also agree that tutorials that are part of the story/game tend to be worse because they are so much less concise and tend not to be designed in a chapterized fashion for easy revision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 I agree, that's why the pre-actual game time is really good. You can do it, or not, your choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshard Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I would prefer tooltips, but agree that potentially a tutorial acting as a prequel would be good. The combination of iamkyon's suggestion and Gaulldlike's use of the player acting as a second in command (I know nothing of the Iceland Incident, would it work?), being talked through, and carrying over your freshly promoted squad into the main game may be interesting. No freebie bonuses, hopefully some attachment to your first squad? (Would break lore though Incident was a ways back, wasn't it?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Maybe making a simulator for the commander to practice a little. Like a muck up town in wich the Xenonauts fire on soldiers from the base rooster. Or an arcade console in wich you fight aliens UFO using pre-generated aircraft. A little like wing commander. Gave you a basic of the mecanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
void Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think it would be enough if the first few UFOs are the small size, and don't land in a city. I've learnt that way and it was fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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