Combat GUI Update (feedback please)

[Gauddlike]

I was actually just assuming the AP reserve would use whichever mode the weapon was currently set to.

If you are running around with an assault rifle set to burst and saw something move you would probably not take time to set the weapon back to single shot before reacting.

That would only really be a problem for me if I would have had enough AP for single shot but wasted it because the weapon was set to burst.

In that case maybe it should switch automatically if a shot can only be taken by doing so.

Crouch could be fitted in by removing one grenade button and replacing it with a small inventory button, crouch could then go down by my AP slider.

If you can right click the grenade button to quickly choose which type of grenade is used then you don't really need two.

I Will try and mock up my idea for the portrait replacement icons tomorrow if I get a chance as well, I would like to see how they would look.

I agree the bank of motionless and potentially identical pictures doesn't really jump out at me either.

[anotherdevil]

Ok a bit of an outlandish option here, but read it through and have a think. Many will disagree with me, but we'll see:

Wouldn't an option be to remove AP reserve?

Now as outlandish as that sounds, hear me out. It could then be replaced with the colour of the walking distance marker. Now lets say that snap shot would be the best one to keep, it's cheapest, and fastest.

So when you plan your guys move the green line appears. If he can walk without going over this reserve then they are all green. If however you want him to walk further than the reserve they turn yellow, much like they do now. But this is a visual reminder during the planning, and if you tell him to go, he will walk onto those yellow squares rather than stopping at the edge.

Now this could be done with multiple colours for multiple reserves, but that might get ugly. Instead I would opt for a system where players just use their heads. It's just a bit of subtraction, and will be good for us =]

Also another thing that this does is removes the need to either a) fiddle around and re-set the reserve amount each turn for every soldier, and b) re-code a whole lot to get that setting to stay each and every time.

Now that you've had a read what do you think? Any way this, or a system similar could be useful?

Happy posting! =]

[Akavit]

I guess I've seldom used the AP reserve myself. If I were to use it more I'd probably prefer a simple percentage system. With that a player would just choose the percent of AP to reserve each turn for a soldier. Since shooting costs are probably determined by percentages it should balance nicely.

But someone who rarely uses the feature probably isn't the best one to think of ways to implement it.

[Bibidibop]

Having tried things out in the most current build, I think left clicking definitely needs to dismiss firing mode rather than relying only on clicking the weapon image. It actually took me a long time to realize clicking the image dismisses the mode, and my first reaction, after rolling the scroll wheel, was left clicking. That is, unless my suggestion is used to keep the wheel exclusively for soldier selection. Maybe, middle clicking could be used to dismiss weapon mode.

Soldier portraits don't have to be constantly visible, but they should at least pop up when pointing at the miniature stats. It also needs to be considered that having constant portraits better exploits the art, and makes it easier to see who is who at a glance. However, those mini-stats are really what is important, because it means I wouldn't have to cycle through my soldiers to find everyone's levels. I could tell if there is any movement or fight left, at a glance. The current selection buttons are also far too fiddly for comfortable use, at least at 1920X1200.

Having the alien portraits at the right works, because, as far as I know, there is no telling how many aliens will be on screen at any given time. Putting them along the GUI could leave too little space. However, if that's not the case, then putting them along the bottom would be really nice. I just don't like looking all over the screen for randomly popping information. I do think there needs to be some way to show which soldier is the one detecting an alien.

The new build has the color coded reserve pathing. It works nicely. Green is walkable, yellow is reserve, red is non-walkable.

[TheTuninator]

I guess I've seldom used the AP reserve myself. If I were to use it more I'd probably prefer a simple percentage system. With that a player would just choose the percent of AP to reserve each turn for a soldier. Since shooting costs are probably determined by percentages it should balance nicely.

But someone who rarely uses the feature probably isn't the best one to think of ways to implement it.

I use it pretty much constantly in X-COM (less so in the current Xenonauts build because it doesn't stay activated from turn to turn) and I really appreciate the convenience of being able to tell your soldier to automatically reserve the exact amount of AP necessary for shots. Otherwise, the player has to do a bit too much math with every individual soldier's stats in order to figure how how much AP to save so none is wasted; better to automate that task, I think.

@anotherdevil-I find the idea interesting, but my only concern would be the potential harm of misclicks. Fire reserve is great because it physically prevents your trooper from moving past the point where he'd be able to fire; if the only barrier is a visual indicator, than I can still accidentally move my trooper too far, thus rendering the entire point of the reserve moot.

[anotherdevil]

The new build has the color coded reserve pathing. It works nicely. Green is walkable, yellow is reserve, red is non-walkable.

I know it does. But you have to manually select what type of shot to reserve. Manually. Every single time for now. My way is an automatic method, though it is limited (potentially) in only accounting for snap shots

@anotherdevil-I find the idea interesting, but my only concern would be the potential harm of misclicks. Fire reserve is great because it physically prevents your trooper from moving past the point where he'd be able to fire; if the only barrier is a visual indicator, than I can still accidentally move my trooper too far, thus rendering the entire point of the reserve moot.

You'd still need to double click to move though, so that barrier is still there. If you double clicked, well that's a bit stink, but it was your mess up to make. It's just like overwriting an old save by clicking the buttons too quickly without reading the whole 'are you sure you want to lalala.' That sucks, but it was your fault =p there is only so much the game can hold your hand after all, otherwise it'd be constant pop ups and check boxes etc.

As I said it was just another approach, and while not perfect (by any means) perhaps there is a way to modify it to make it better?

[TheTuninator]

Oh, I agree it's entirely my fault if I misclick, but that's why I liked having the AP reserve automatically kick in as insurance; I'm a bit clumsy when it comes to squaddie management, and sometimes send them scrambling directly into enemy guns from time to time.

[anotherdevil]

Oh, I agree it's entirely my fault if I misclick, but that's why I liked having the AP reserve automatically kick in as insurance; I'm a bit clumsy when it comes to squaddie management, and sometimes send them scrambling directly into enemy guns from time to time.

Perhaps we could work some sort of buffer in? I don't like the idea of a pop up... or another click, but there might be something?

[Gauddlike]

The only way I can see it having as much functionality as an AP reserve system is if you could set at what point the path changed colour.

If you were to do that it would basically be the same as the current ideas but without the automatic stop when you hit reserve.

That isn't always a bad thing, it is nice to be able to easily run past your reserve in an emergency.

Basically your idea so far sounds like the current system but with a single shot auto reserved and the auto stop removed.

Rather than changing the current system maybe you would be happier if those were selectable as global options?

Adding an auto stop checkbox and a default reserve in the options would cover it nicely.

You have the option of using either method then.

[anotherdevil]

I just had an epiphany (kind of a terrible one, but oh well)! What about if you get green squares until ANY reserve option is available. Then you get yellow. Now the difference is that at each new reserve option, a little image describing that reserve option is visible on the ground.

So lets just say you use a gun with only 3 aim, 2 aim, 1 aim shots (representing the number of concentric circles in the aim cursor when you shoot).

So you have green for the amount you can move freely. Then you reach yellow with a '3 aim' symbol on it. If you move past that symbol, you know the best you can do is the '2 aim' shot. Then you move a bit further and there is the '2 aim' symbol, and further yet is the '1 aim' shot. Past that you know you wont be able to do any shooting what so ever.

Now obviously the symbol would have to be read from the ground angle (not the vertical angle like you would see it as your cursor), and it shouldn't get blocked by buildings, else that would suck. It also however doesn't require a rainbow of colours, and can also (I imagine) be automatically updated for whatever gun the soldier is using

[Gorlom]

Ok a bit of an outlandish option here, but read it through and have a think. Many will disagree with me, but we'll see:

Wouldn't an option be to remove AP reserve?

Now as outlandish as that sounds, hear me out. It could then be replaced with the colour of the walking distance marker. Now lets say that snap shot would be the best one to keep, it's cheapest, and fastest.

So when you plan your guys move the green line appears. If he can walk without going over this reserve then they are all green. If however you want him to walk further than the reserve they turn yellow, much like they do now. But this is a visual reminder during the planning, and if you tell him to go, he will walk onto those yellow squares rather than stopping at the edge.

Now this could be done with multiple colours for multiple reserves, but that might get ugly. Instead I would opt for a system where players just use their heads. It's just a bit of subtraction, and will be good for us =]

Also another thing that this does is removes the need to either a) fiddle around and re-set the reserve amount each turn for every soldier, and b) re-code a whole lot to get that setting to stay each and every time.

Now that you've had a read what do you think? Any way this, or a system similar could be useful?

Happy posting! =]

My problem with that idea is that it doesnt take into account non moveing actions such as turning shooting or using a medpack/inventory.

[TheTuninator]

It's a very well-thought-out system, but I still have to support the "hard reserve" which physically restrains you from moving myself. It's too useful and effective a safety net for me to contemplate swapping it out for another system.

[anotherdevil]

My problem with that idea is that it doesnt take into account non moveing actions such as turning shooting or using a medpack/inventory.

well something could come up in the inventory if you try and move something (pop up), and you could institute a double right click for turning over.

the current system doesn't really. You can walk right up to the edge and then realise you can't shoot because your man can't turn far enough to aim properly

[Gauddlike]

My system uses an analogue slider rather than set positions.

You can move the slider until the required aim type icon shows up then just go a little further to save a few extra points for turning, kneeling etc.

[anotherdevil]

hmmm too true. But with the size of the sliding bar (it's quite small) it might be a bit difficult getting the right amount extra saved. Instead Chris might make them hard stops at each of the firing settings, as that's easier to understand methinks

[Gauddlike]

That is also one of the things I don't like.

It would just mean I reserved enough for the second shot, turned it off to kneel and point in the right direction then turned it back on to make sure I saved enough for the lowest shot.

With an analogue slider you might well guess a little low (or high) on how much you saved but at least you have the option.

The exact number you have reserved is displayed as well so as long as you have an idea how many APs kneeling and turning costs you can make a fair guess as to how many you want to reserve.

For example you move the slider until the first aim point shows.

The reserve number says 30 points reserved.

You will probably want to kneel and may need to look around a little so you move the slider a bit further to around 38.

Next turn you realise you had left it a bit short so you round it off to 40 to give a little more chance to look around.

[TheTuninator]

hmmm too true. But with the size of the sliding bar (it's quite small) it might be a bit difficult getting the right amount extra saved. Instead Chris might make them hard stops at each of the firing settings, as that's easier to understand methinks

I agree with this; given the small size of the bar and the fact that every TU matters, it'd be kind of excruciating to have to precisely line up the slider every time. Better to have a slider and additionally some "hard stops" or quick-select buttons (with accompanying hotkeys, of course) to facilitate ease of use for the player.

[anotherdevil]

yeah someway of saying I want 'snap shot' and 'crouch' etc.

I guess my coloured path method kind of can do this. If you know you want a snap shot, and to kneel, then you just move one square back form the minimum needed to snap shot (or more depending on what you want to do). That way you essentially make the conscious option to 'save' those extra 4 AP to allow you to kneel.

It's not perfect, especially if you want to kneel and turn 75 degrees, but then I guess you can just save 2 tiles of moving, or whatever. It still requires a bit of math however

[Bibidibop]

Okay:

• code the reserve increments into the paths, with more colors, so they are visible at all time
  
• and have a slider to hard-set the reserve, which doesn't change unless manually adjusted.
  

?

[anotherdevil]

Okay:

• code the reserve increments into the paths, with more colors, so they are visible at all time

• and have a slider to hard-set the reserve, which doesn't change unless manually adjusted.

?

I'm sorry I don't understand. What are you suggesting?

[FunkyPoop]

Hey all,

I'm new to this forum and new to the game. And to be honest, I haven't played it much. I could not get passed the Air Combat, they kept shooting me down (I'm pretty bad). I decided to go to the forums and I saw this post about the GUI. I've read through all the pages and thanks to the comments and ideas here and a few of my own ideas I came up with a version of the GUI.

Version 1

Portrait bar

I've put the portrait bar to the bottom left, but without the portraits. Instead, I only used the numbers. When the soldier dies or passes out, it shows it where the stats were. Like K.I.A., OUT for being passed out and maybe MIND or CTRL for mind controlled.

AP Reserve

I modified the AP Reserve bar that was suggested by Gauddlike a bit. I didn't like the first one, because there was too much information. Once players have played the game for some time, they will know what the symbols mean. So the text explaining that could be left out. I think the 'AP Reserve' text could be left out too, because less text is less clutter.

Soldier Scroll

I left these buttons in, because enough people like them. With those little stat bars it may seem unnecessary, but enough people like them to keep them in I think. And I sometimes use them with X-com.

Soldier stand/crouch

The Stand and Crouch buttons are under the Scroll buttons. Seems like a logical place.

Weapon & Grenade

I didn't change the weapon and grenade buttons, I think this is fine as it is. The grenade button should indeed be used as a quick button, without dropping the weapon. Just see it as quick belt access.

Inventory

I moved this to the left of the portrait so it's close to the weapon and grenade button.

All the above got something to do with controlling your soldiers so that's all on the left side of the screen. All close together so it's easy to access.

Floor/Camera control

Then there is the Up and Down buttons for the floor. I assumed that's what the camera button is used for that was on the original.

Soldier Stats

Nothing changed here. But I keep asking myself the same question every time I look at this part of the GUI. What could replace that huge portrait picture? Because the only thing it really does is showing the rank.

End Turn and Map

End Turn is nice. The Map button is now a little bigger, because those camera controls are gone. I also think that the Map button should stay a button and not a mini-map. I think that a mini-map isn't needed for a few reasons. My main reason is that the game is turn based, nothing is changing quickly. There will be time enough to look around you and see what's happening. Or click on the Map button to get a big overview. Mini-maps are handy with real-time strategy games, because stuff is constantly moving. That will not happen in Xenonauts.

A personal reason is that I like the feeling of exploration. If the mini-map is already showing bits of the area around me, I'm not going to be surprised when I step outside of the vehicle. Could be a good thing, but I don't see it that way.

I used the entire width of the screen and when doing this I had a bit of room left so I stretched the big Portrait/Stats window. If there is a need for a few more buttons they could be added there.

For instance the 'Leave/Fly Away' button. I don't know if this is an option in Xenonauts, but there is no button for it now. I also wondered if there are those sort of elevator things like in the X-Com ufo's. Because if there are, there's no buttons to move the soldier up or down a floor.

Thanks for reading the whole thing and I hope my version could help you guys!

FunkyPoop

[Gorlom]

I really REALLY like Funkypoops suggestion. Its baisicly everything I want the way i want it.

If there are any beamelevator wouldnt just using "up one level" button then click move to the tile directly above the char work?

[Chris]

I've had a look at the entire thread, and a few ideas struck me as rather good:

- The grenade throw button will now just have a single grenade/flare shown, with right-click opening up a pop-up menu of all available grenades in the soldier inventory. Clicking on it will activate the fire mode with the standard throw cost +12AP if the unit does not have a free hand.

- The crouch toggle will fill the spot where the second grenade was.

- I like the idea that instead of having buttons for burst and single fire mode of the weapon, there'll be just one and clicking on it will cycle between the two. Saves space in the weapon panel.

- The camera level controls are done best in Silent Storm (see here) - it's the column on the right of the GUI with the arrows at the top and bottom. That looks pretty intuitive to me.

- The portraits don't look good up all the time. Someone did a UI earlier in the thread where just the bars where shown, plus the soldier number. We'd have the move the soldier number to the left of the bars so it doesn't cover them, but that's all we'd need to show all the time. If you mouseover a soldier's area, their portrait should pop up at that point. If the soldier is killed, his little section should slide down and disappear.

- Maybe Crouch and Inventory buttons could replace the soldier stats below their large stat bars and to the right of their portraits?

Thanks for the input so far guys, keep it coming.

[Gorlom]

I'd like the soldier portraits, the next soldier button, Ap reserve and crouch to be close together like in FunkyPoops exampple. That works really well (although I think crouch is a toggle so you dont need the stand up button next to that in his example)

And switching around the AP bar so its either on top or at the bottom of the three bars would make it (marginally) easier to see which soldier has AP left and which soldier's bar is empty at a glance.

[anotherdevil]

@ funkypoop, I like it except why put the inventory and up down height arrows between the portrait and the weapons? They should go on the right more. Also grenades but Chris has sorted that.

@ Chris, any thoughts on reserves?