lyosha Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Hey Guys, Maybe someone already mentioned it, but I was unable to find anything like this, so I post. Terror missions in original UFO had a common problem of stupid civilians wandering aimlessly, being shot down by everyone. No need to make them smart or anything, it's just you could add a small extra feature. It would be great if any civilian who detects a Xenonaut on an adjacent tile would receive an order to proceed to one of (random unoccupied) tiles inside a craft. After reaching the tile (and relative safety) you could, just for fun, switch the aimless roaming back again, so the player has to consider sending one of the operatives to keep track of the whole flock inside the craft. Looks like a simple trigger to add tons of atmosphere. PS Yeah, and I'd also add 0-3 random civilians on UFO crash site / UFO landing maps. PSS Sorry, this probably shall be moved to Feature Requests Edited December 21, 2011 by lyosha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Moved for you. This was suggested in various ways on the old forums (but same concept, directing civilians towards a 'safe zone'). I'm a bit ambivalent on it, since having civilians being suicidal idiots/ pinpointing aliens for me, gives me fond memories. I think there are planned to be civvies on nearly every map, with obvious exceptions (like the jungle). They're currently in the alpha builds after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotGtIE Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 As it is, civilians follow an AI that recognizes threats and measures danger relative to the locations of those threats, which is way better than the random wandering of the old X-Com civvies. I think "threats" includes xenonaut operatives, which makes sense in that you'd want to stay away from anyone involved in a gunfight even if they were on your side. Wouldn't want to take a hit meant for one of the soldiers or get closer to the crossfire than you have to be. But I shudder to think of a bunch of helpless hooligans crowding the lander in panic. That's MY base of operations, you helpless scrubs, go git yer own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyosha Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Tnx The idea isn't about removing these funny idiots from battlefield (I've got lots of great memories, too), the idea is only to give the player the opportunity to increase their safety if he/she feels like it, with a simple formal action (approaching a civilian). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyosha Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 I was simply thinking of a "real-life" operation -- the real soldiers would likely have an order to send all encountered civilians to the craft for extraction, provided there's no known other place around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 We've deliberately shied away from players being able to order civilians around because I didn't think it fits. However, the civilian AI does indeed recognise Xenonaut operatives as threats (although less serious ones than aliens) so they shouldn't be in the way so much as before - they'll run away from you and try and hide when they see your soldiers. And yes, there should be civilians on most maps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yeah, completely understandable. Maybe just in the terror missions? They'd have NPC troops in them guarding areas, and having the civvies generally make their way towards the NPC troop positions would add flavour. Have it link into their 'fear response' to your own and alien forces, and they should run towards NPC positions when you or the aliens come into sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyosha Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Sounds nice as well. Yes, my idea was solely to enhance the terror site experience, add a movie feel or smth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I think there are planned to be civvies on nearly every map, with obvious exceptions (like the jungle). They're currently in the alpha builds after all. WHAT!? you mean I can't rely on tarzan and his apes to come out of the jungle, machetes flying!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Probably not? The jungle isn't that inhabited. Maybe sometimes, but having there ALWAYS be humans around every time you do a Jungle or Arctic/Antarctic mission would start to become odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 hmmm I guess... Where was Tarzan located anyway? Was he in the same place as george of the jungle? Because if not there are at least 2 jungle places in the world I expect to get help when fighting aliens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Deepest darkest Africa apparently (for both). So the Congo? Or the Louvre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I knew one of them was in Paris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straker Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I always hated it when they would block my way through a door, stairway, etc. Being able to politely ask them to move would be nice. There were a few I wanted to shoot myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I blew up the building if that happened to me. *smug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotGtIE Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I blew up the building if that happened to me. *smug* Yeah, lasrifles have a strange way of changing your perspective of the battlefield. Anything not made out of alien alloys or whatever makes up the X-Com base interior walls can become an open doorway with the help of one little lasrifle shot. Civilians become a lot less of a problem once you realize how easy it is to create alternate routes around them. Plus, civilians draw fire away from you and obstruct the aliens too. I never really gave much of a worry to the civvies - any of them who managed to somehow survive at the end of a terror mission were just incidental to the actual operation, whose only goal was to eliminate aliens. "Protecting" civilians doesn't even come into the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Nah, mostly just explosives. Have a read through the LP. Eventually it got to the point that over a third of the gear the troops brought was HE packs. Still wasn't enough. Almost never managed to kill civvies somehow though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyosha Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 "Protecting" civilians doesn't even come into the equation. Yeah, and that sort of pinpoints the problem: a human-saving organization that doesn't give a shit about saving individual humans. In general, an old XCOM looked pretty much like Team America: deploy, burn the place down, kill everyone, extract. Would be nice to somehow make the player worry about civilians/property a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotGtIE Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Have a read through the LP. Which LP? It doesn't sound like you're describing the Otto Xander one. Explosives and me just don't get along, sadly. They're just too big a risk to the loot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 But see the X-Com was ultimately about saving earth for the humans, but it wasn't about defending every man woman and child. Ultimately it's priorities were save earth, kill aliens, research stuff, oh and maybe save some people along the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 But see the X-Com was ultimately about saving earth for the humans, but it wasn't about defending every man woman and child. Ultimately it's priorities were save earth, kill aliens, research stuff, oh and maybe save some people along the way The needs of the many... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straker Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I never used HE packs in a game. Grenades and heavy weapons were adequete to the need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Which LP? It doesn't sound like you're describing the Otto Xander one. The one on this forum, in the Off-Topic section. Still got to finish it, but its pretty long. As for the rest, the current system seems to be working okay. Every dead soldier and civilian is a big loss to the points score, due to how little the aliens are worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 We're hoping to have some 'safe areas' on the map where there are a lot of civilians in a building and friendly AI troops guarding it. And the aliens trying to destroy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 A nice secondary objective too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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