Are there any plans to revise accuracy a bit?

[Boar Head]

Primarily close range bonuses? I was hoping this game would be more of a return to classic style xcom style gameplay which it mostly is except for how accuracy works. Especially now that we're in a post Phoenix Point world, a game which has a lot of its own issues of course but one which made its shooting a hell of a lot better, I just don't really see why this game thinks it's alright to be right in front of an enemy with a shotgun and only have an 86% or so chance to hit?

At least in the Firaxis games you could get the high ground on enemies, holo-target them, and utilize certain perks as well to grant flat chance increases to your hitchance. This game doesn't have any of those things (nor should it) but I feel like once my soldier is close enough to put the barrel down the alien's throat then they should have a 100% to hit.

[Chris]

10 hours ago, Boar Head said:

Primarily close range bonuses? I was hoping this game would be more of a return to classic style xcom style gameplay which it mostly is except for how accuracy works. Especially now that we're in a post Phoenix Point world, a game which has a lot of its own issues of course but one which made its shooting a hell of a lot better, I just don't really see why this game thinks it's alright to be right in front of an enemy with a shotgun and only have an 86% or so chance to hit?

At least in the Firaxis games you could get the high ground on enemies, holo-target them, and utilize certain perks as well to grant flat chance increases to your hitchance. This game doesn't have any of those things (nor should it) but I feel like once my soldier is close enough to put the barrel down the alien's throat then they should have a 100% to hit.

I am planning to revise the close-range bonuses upwards in the next batch of major balance changes, yes. But I don't think we're ever going to be in a situation where proximity matters more than accuracy (for anyone other than your shotgun soldiers).

Also, bear in mind that shotguns display their hit chance per pellet - 86%x3 is actually a 99.7% chance of hitting with one pellet, a 95% chance of hitting with at least two pellets, and a 64% chance of hitting with all three. I don't think the odds sound anywhere near as bad when viewed like that.

[zardoz2206]

rifles need more love, shotguns are fine the way they are.

[gG-Unknown]

On 2/17/2024 at 11:11 PM, Chris said:

I am planning to revise the close-range bonuses upwards , yes. But I don't think we're ever going to be in a situation where proximity matters more than accuracy

When you fine tune system for close firearm usage, it is wise to consider melee impact.

It is known issue, when criminal with a knife get certain range to a police officer with a gun, then gun becomes obsolete. There are some movies showing "gun dance" but that is pure fantasy.

I would recommend consider these:

1. Soldier who is hit (any form) get visible accuracy penalty in current (reaction fire) and next round. Pain issue. Of course some aliens or robots do not suffer  pain. ( assume acc 10% penalty)

2. Soldier who is attacked  (but no hit) in melee get  same penalty as one who is hit by a range weapon.( assume acc 10% penalty)

3. Soldier who is hit in melee get massive accuracy penalty in current (reaction fire) and next round. ( assume 30%)

4. Soldier who kneel gets bonus to acc only for weapons typically use bi pod (mg, sniper) CURRENT MANDATORY KNEEL and BONUS ACC FOR EVERYONE IS VERY BAD.

5. Melle attack at kneeling Soldier gets bonus to acc AND dmg ( assume 30% acc to hit, +10% to dmg). This point is important! It brings dilemma kneel or not kneel! Kneeling always in front of door would not be so great idea when reaper could open it.

6. If attacker in melee achieves two hits in one round  on one opponent OR takes at least 30% HP by one hit  then it will force opponent kneel. even if opponent has no TU it will kneel. e.i. apply disadvantage.

------------------------------------------------

Whole tuning should revolve around the idea - close range shooting is accurate yes, but when you get face to face, then it is better to use melee.

[Alienkiller]

gG-Unknown, I know what you mean. The Accuracy-Problem is a job-site, which we Main-Beta-Testers (from first Beta on) and the Devs trying to solve since Ground-Fighting-Maps are out. That´s not so easy as it looks, but it get a lot better since the kneeing-Bonus and the Equipment-Thing-Bonus come in for the Ground-Battles.

What the Hit-Damage belongs, that´s good as it is, when your Soldiers get hurt. If you make it harder as it´s now, nobody will buy and play that Game. You have to see that this Game is not only for the 5% to 10% worldwide Veterans / Experts, but also for the 90% to 95% Custom-Gamers. The heavyer you make an Game, nobody of the Custom-Gamers will buy it, which means that no Income can generated to hold it up to date. 

Example: You have the first Armor-Plate and the Warden-Armour-Upgrade or an better Variant from the Suit / Warden-Armor-Variant and get hit with an very precise Plasma-Weapon. With less then 4 good placed shots your Soldiers are in the happy hunting gronds. That´s for the Gamers hard enough and is like the old X-COM-Games.

Where I agree is that that the Melee-Attacks could be much better in Accuracy with an Stun-Batton, Knife and other Melee-Weapons.

And I agree too that the Accuracy could be more cooler with laying down, kneeing, standing and with Technologys for the Weapons, Armour etc.

What I like in Phoenix Point / new XCOM is, that you can Augment or Cyborg your Soldiers to make them more effectivly.

 

The UFO ET-Row, which get the UFO 1 ET: Platinum-Version, have done an big Mistake too as an big example. There only minimum-Refits get done and the Main-Points like World-Map, Cyborging / Augment your Soldiers, flexible Vehicles from different Types etc. didn´t get an Rework / Refit, means it still have the 2000-Gamestile and nothing from the more modern UFO 2 ET: Battle for Mercury-Concept integrated.

Or Pardadox with the to heavy to play Strategic Games (f. e. Europa Universals, Hearts of Iron 1 to 3) up to about 2010 for only the 5% to 10% Veterans / Experts get the Custom-Gamers (90% to 95% worldwide) with an easy to learn and easy to play Stellaris / Hearts of Iron 4.

Edited February 22 by Alienkiller

[gG-Unknown]

5 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

 

I read your article twice, I found that you are trying to say something, but I didnt found the point.

Sorry.

[Alienkiller]

Summerized I explain that it´s not easy to make an Game for Veterans / Experts and the populace normal Gamers incl. bring in cool Content / Features we Pre-Testers think that have to be in.