Milestone 2.08 Released! (Experimental)

[Chris]

This update is also only accessible by switching to our Experimental branches (instructions on how to do so here) - although note they have slower load times and worse performance than normal builds due to the extra logging they contain!

This build breaks save games, so you'll need to start a new campaign. If anyone wants to continue your current campaign, I've switched 2.07c to the Experimental Legacy branch and you can switch over if you want to keep playing that version.

Gameplay & Balance Changes:

• Strategy:
  • Updated research text for:
    • Autopsy: Cleaner Agent
    • Autopsy: Cleaner Soldier
    • Probe UFO
    • Interrogation: General
  • The soldier portrait is now shown on hover on the Soldier screen soldier list.
  • On the Soldier Equip screen, if you drag an item out of a slot and drop it into empty space, it now disappears and returns to the base stores rather than snapping back to its previous location.
  • The "Commence Research" button on the Research screen is now visually disabled if you have no research available.
• Tactical:
  • Stun Damage now heals more quickly (the greater of 25% of current Stun HP, or 5 HP).
  • Throwing a grenade through a window now shatters it.
  • Added a 3D model for a military officer. One variant of this is used for The General in the ATLAS Base mission, while another is used for the Cleaner Leaders on VIP Elimination missions.
  • The General now has a little bit of dialogue when you encounter him in the ATLAS Base mission.
  • Updated the Combat Shield animations so it is held straight (especially when crouching).
• Air Combat:
  • Phantom Interceptor now correctly unlocks off the Destroyer UFO (alongside the Dragonfly), rather than the Abductor UFO.
  • Angel Interceptor build cost reduced to $500,000 from $600,000.
  • Phantom Interceptor build cost reduced to $800,000 from $1,000,000.
  • Increased Damage on torpedoes.
  • Slightly increased Armour Destruction on missiles.
  • Decreased damage, firing arc and projectile speed on UFO Scout Beam.
  • Decreased damage and projectile speed on Alien Destroyer Beam weapon.
  • Decreased damage on Alien Fighter, Alien Interceptor, and Alien Probe Beam weapons.
  • Decreased damage on Alien Bomber Fusion Artillery weapon.
  • Decreased hitpoints on Alien Observer and Alien Bomber.
  • Decreased armor on Alien Abductor.
  • Rush replacement costs for interceptors reduced.
  • Reduced cost of tier 1 interceptor equipment (e.g. Sidewinder Missiles) to $25,000 from $50,000.
  • Reduced cost of tier 2 interceptor equipment to $100,000 from $120,000.
  • Reduced cost of Laser Lance to $125,000 from $250,000.

Bugfixes:

• Fixed clicking MARS during deployment phase crashing the game (should be fixed for real this time).
• Fixed a crash that could occur when entering the air combat.
• Fixed an issue where you could become unable to equip items on a specific plane.
• Fixed items on the Soldier Equip screen getting stuck if you only partially dragged them out of the Armory.
• Fixed the Ctrl+Shift shot preview mode being cancelled on hovering over an enemy.
• Fixed teleporters triggering if you do not deliberately end your move on them.
• Fixed the Counterfire achievement being unlocked by the aliens accidentally killing one of their own units with reaction fire.
• Fixed the dropship icon on the Geoscape frequently not registering clicks properly.
• Fixed the game displaying the rank of individually hired engineers / scientists as "ZIV."
• Fixed several typos in the game text, including a broken link for Low Recoil on the Lasers Xenopedia project.
• Fixed UFO Hull Plating unlocking two Alloy Plating projects.
• Fixed the Flares not appearing for a soldier if you Tab to them after having a vehicle selected.

[Grobobobo]

Wait, what? What's with the sudden nerfs to the air game? The economy changes are somewhat understandable, but why did the ufo's get nerfed as well?

[Emily_F]

14 hours ago, Chris said:

This update is also only accessible by switching to our Experimental branches (instructions on how to do so here) - although note they have slower load times and worse performance than normal builds due to the extra logging they contain!

 

Have you done the push to the server?  It isn't showing an update (my last update was on the 22nd)

[tdl]

The current GOG build has a strange issue: when starting the game, it doesn't go to the menu; instead it starts a tactical battle in the desert biome.

[Chris]

14 hours ago, Grobobobo said:

Wait, what? What's with the sudden nerfs to the air game? The economy changes are somewhat understandable, but why did the ufo's get nerfed as well?

Lots of people were complaining the game air game was now way too hard, especially for people playing using autoresolve.

2 hours ago, Emily_F said:

Have you done the push to the server?  It isn't showing an update (my last update was on the 22nd)

Looks like you're on the Prototype branches still. I've disabled those, as we're not using them any more - you need to switch back to Experimental.

1 hour ago, tdl said:

The current GOG build has a strange issue: when starting the game, it doesn't go to the menu; instead it starts a tactical battle in the desert biome.

Sorry, yeah - I've fixed this now. It affected both versions of the game, it was a bug.

[Grobobobo]

3 hours ago, Chris said:

Lots of people were complaining the game air game was now way too hard, especially for people playing using autoresolve.

Ah, just saw the steam forums. While I don't believe that the game should be balanced around really good players, the air game shouldn't be balanced around players using autoresolve either. This is why i believe there should be a seperate difficulty for the air game aside from the main one, people who don't want to engage with the air game system shouldn't have to.

The main issue with the prototype balance was that the default loadout freaking sucked, if you switched weapons a little an angel could still solo an observer. The air game was still trivial if you engaged in the systems even a little, what's the point in having an air game at all if that's too high of a bar? Surely it's possible to do this in a way that satisfies both camps?

[Pietje666]

Bummer i loved the way they were. 

So for now i'll use Milestone 2.07 files for the ufos. I play only at commander level cause that way the game feels just right. Nerfing aliens makes the game on that level easier... maybe an option that will nerf aliens at the start screen

[Chris]

3 hours ago, Grobobobo said:

Ah, just saw the steam forums. While I don't believe that the game should be balanced around really good players, the air game shouldn't be balanced around players using autoresolve either. This is why i believe there should be a seperate difficulty for the air game aside from the main one, people who don't want to engage with the air game system shouldn't have to.

The main issue with the prototype balance was that the default loadout freaking sucked, if you switched weapons a little an angel could still solo an observer. The air game was still trivial if you engaged in the systems even a little, what's the point in having an air game at all if that's too high of a bar? Surely it's possible to do this in a way that satisfies both camps?

A large portion of the playerbase uses autoresolve, I'd guess probably more than actually play the air combat manually. The game balance does need to account for autoresolve otherwise we'll run into major issues.

Have you actually played the new values though? The updates mostly make the air combat more forgiving if you get things wrong, whereas I suspect most skilled players are able to position their aircraft so they don't actually get hit very often (which the autoresolve doesn't do) so it probably won't affect them a great deal - whereas a change like reducing the HP of UFOs would affect all players equally.

Yes, we could add difficulty settings for the air combat as well if people want. There's currently no difficulty scaling on the air combat at all so that's probably part of the issue here. I suspect adding damage scaling to the weapons based on difficulty wouldn't cause too many problems, especially on Commander where there's no autoresolve functionality to worry about at all.

[Grobobobo]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

A large portion of the playerbase uses autoresolve, I'd guess probably more than actually play the air combat manually.

That's... suprising, did you gather data for it? I thought air game was a major selling point for xenonauts, and expanding on the air game would have been a big deal for differentiating xen2 from 1. If the majority of players are autoresolving then the air game aspect of the game is a lot less important than I thought.

2 hours ago, Chris said:

The game balance does need to account for autoresolve otherwise we'll run into major issues.

To some extent yes, autoresolve does need to be a viable option if you don't want to engage in the mechanics, but balancing a mechanic in favour of people who don't want to engage in a mechanic is really weird to say the least. 

2 hours ago, Chris said:

Have you actually played the new values though? The updates mostly make the air combat more forgiving if you get things wrong

Well, obviously, if you didn't get things wrong you steamrolled through the game no matter what, so it's not a suprise that making the game even easier doesn't affect playing well that much. But like, if you can win the game now by playing badly then what's even the point of playing well?

2 hours ago, Chris said:

whereas a change like reducing the HP of UFOs would affect all players 

That's true, that would have been even worse. But you DID decrease the hp of the observer, bomber and abductor.

2 hours ago, Chris said:

Yes, we could add difficulty settings for the air combat as well if people want

Yes please. I still have no idea what you're actually planning for air game in the end, but if you want to make the system fleshed out in any way, that will be nescessary to make both types of players happy. Just make sure it's seperate from the main game difficulty, since there could be a commander-level tactical player who just wants to cruise through the air game. Personally, I don't care if the easiest air game difficulty cuts ufo hp by 90%, as long as we can have an interesting, challenging air game at high (air game) difficulty.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Grobobobo

[Raffik]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:54 PM, Chris said:

A large portion of the playerbase uses autoresolve, I'd guess probably more than actually play the air combat manually. 

Wow, thats... odd at least. I would be interested to know why, as the air combat design makes the game stand out.

On 10/27/2023 at 10:54 PM, Chris said:

Have you actually played the new values though? The updates mostly make the air combat more forgiving if you get things wrong, whereas I suspect most skilled players are able to position their aircraft so they don't actually get hit very often (which the autoresolve doesn't do) so it probably won't affect them a great deal - whereas a change like reducing the HP of UFOs would affect all players equally

Yes and I must admit I was surprised, that a single Angel interceptor can now dispatch 2 mimics singlehandedly,  a scout / mimic combo as well, even destroyer is no match for it.

edit: single Angel can destroy 3 mimics, with a good strategy also mimic / destroyer combo and mimic /fighter combo

Edited October 29, 2023 by Raffik

[SoftwareSimian]

I'm one of the silent (majority?) who have absolutely no interest in the air combat and always use auto-resolve.

[Aarav]

On 10/27/2023 at 2:37 AM, Chris said:

This update is also only accessible by switching to our Experimental branches (instructions on how to do so here) - although note they have slower load times and worse performance than normal builds due to the extra logging they contain!

This build breaks save games, so you'll need to start a new campaign. If anyone wants to continue your current campaign, I've switched 2.07c to the Experimental Legacy branch and you can switch over if you want to keep playing that version.

Gameplay & Balance Changes:

• Strategy:
  • Updated research text for:
    • Autopsy: Cleaner Agent
    • Autopsy: Cleaner Soldier
    • Probe UFO
    • Interrogation: General
  • The soldier portrait is now shown on hover on the Soldier screen soldier list.
  • On the Soldier Equip screen, if you drag an item out of a slot and drop it into empty space, it now disappears and returns to the base stores rather than snapping back to its previous location.
  • The "Commence Research" button on the Research screen is now visually disabled if you have no research available.
• Tactical:
  • Stun Damage now heals more quickly (the greater of 25% of current Stun HP, or 5 HP).
  • Throwing a grenade through a window now shatters it.
  • Added a 3D model for a military officer. One variant of this is used for The General in the ATLAS Base mission, while another is used for the Cleaner Leaders on VIP Elimination missions.
  • The General now has a little bit of dialogue when you encounter him in the ATLAS Base mission.
  • Updated the Combat Shield animations so it is held straight (especially when crouching).
• Air Combat:
  • Phantom Interceptor now correctly unlocks off the Destroyer UFO (alongside the Dragonfly), rather than the Abductor UFO.
  • Angel Interceptor build cost reduced to $500,000 from $600,000.
  • Phantom Interceptor build cost reduced to $800,000 from $1,000,000.
  • Increased Damage on torpedoes.
  • Slightly increased Armour Destruction on missiles.
  • Decreased damage, firing arc and projectile speed on UFO Scout Beam.
  • Decreased damage and projectile speed on Alien Destroyer Beam weapon.
  • Decreased damage on Alien Fighter, Alien Interceptor, and Alien Probe Beam weapons.
  • Decreased damage on Alien Bomber Fusion Artillery weapon.
  • Decreased hitpoints on Alien Observer and Alien Bomber.
  • Decreased armor on Alien Abductor.
  • Rush replacement costs for interceptors reduced.
  • Reduced cost of tier 1 interceptor equipment (e.g. Sidewinder Missiles) to $25,000 from $50,000.
  • Reduced cost of tier 2 interceptor equipment to $100,000 from $120,000.
  • Reduced cost of Laser Lance to $125,000 from $250,000.

Bugfixes:

• Fixed clicking MARS during deployment phase crashing the game (should be fixed for real this time).
• Fixed a crash that could occur when entering the air combat.
• Fixed an issue where you could become unable to equip items on a specific plane.
• Fixed items on the Soldier Equip screen getting stuck if you only partially dragged them out of the Armory.
• Fixed the Ctrl+Shift shot preview mode being cancelled on hovering over an enemy.
• Fixed teleporters triggering if you do not deliberately end your move on them.
• Fixed the Counterfire achievement being unlocked by the aliens accidentally killing one of their own units with reaction fire.
• Fixed the dropship icon on the Geoscape frequently not registering clicks properly.
• Fixed the game displaying the rank of individually hired engineers / scientists as "ZIV."
• Fixed several typos in the game text, including a broken link for Low Recoil on the Lasers Xenopedia project.
• Fixed UFO Hull Plating unlocking two Alloy Plating projects.
• Fixed the Flares not appearing for a soldier if you Tab to them after having a vehicle selected.

Thank you for total details and information.

[Chris]

22 hours ago, Grobobobo said:

That's... suprising, did you gather data for it? I thought air game was a major selling point for xenonauts, and expanding on the air game would have been a big deal for differentiating xen2 from 1. If the majority of players are autoresolving then the air game aspect of the game is a lot less important than I thought.

To some extent yes, autoresolve does need to be a viable option if you don't want to engage in the mechanics, but balancing a mechanic in favour of people who don't want to engage in a mechanic is really weird to say the least. 

Well, obviously, if you didn't get things wrong you steamrolled through the game no matter what, so it's not a suprise that making the game even easier doesn't affect playing well that much. But like, if you can win the game now by playing badly then what's even the point of playing well?

That's true, that would have been even worse. But you DID decrease the hp of the observer, bomber and abductor.

Yes please. I still have no idea what you're actually planning for air game in the end, but if you want to make the system fleshed out in any way, that will be nescessary to make both types of players happy. Just make sure it's seperate from the main game difficulty, since there could be a commander-level tactical player who just wants to cruise through the air game. Personally, I don't care if the easiest air game difficulty cuts ufo hp by 90%, as long as we can have an interesting, challenging air game at high (air game) difficulty.

The data is all anecdotal, but that's certainly the impression I get based on player feedback. The air combat is a potential selling point for players but given the Xenonauts franchise is arguably the only decent X-Com spiritual successor that remains faithful to the original formula (OpenXcom is great but not a spiritual successor, while XCOM is great but not faithful), there's plenty of reasons why people might be interested in X2 but not care about the air combat. Mechanically it's quite different from the rest of the game.

We'll probably look into a damage modifier for UFO weapons in the next week or two.

[Grobobobo]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

The data is all anecdotal, but that's certainly the impression I get based on player feedback

I feel like that sample size is a bit biased, you're not gonna see people specifically demanding a more complex air game, because the air game improvements are an implied part of the roadmap. Those that are less patient probably wrapped the complaint under the umbrella of "it's just x1 with slightly better graphics", something that's a pretty common complaint on steam reviews right now. Anectodal data is usually fishes out a loud minority more than a silent majority.

[Chris]

15 hours ago, Grobobobo said:

I feel like that sample size is a bit biased, you're not gonna see people specifically demanding a more complex air game, because the air game improvements are an implied part of the roadmap. Those that are less patient probably wrapped the complaint under the umbrella of "it's just x1 with slightly better graphics", something that's a pretty common complaint on steam reviews right now. Anectodal data is usually fishes out a loud minority more than a silent majority.

This is anecdotal evidence based on spending the best part of 15 years developing these two games. There's always been a strong divide between people who like the manual air combat and people who would rather not engage with it, even back with Xenonauts 1. I don't think anything has changed with X2 in that regard.

[Pietje666]

Damage modifier for ufos would be an welcome option. So thanks Chris for looking into it

At commander level you only have 1 option for air combat. That's manual style. If you turn the option on for auto-resolve then it isn't commander level anymore

[rokfor]

106 days crash every time. Can't do anything. Does the game send you any automatic bug message every time it crashes? Should I wait or just go to Legacy Build and start playing from the beginning? 

[rokfor]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:45 PM, rokfor said:

106 days crash every time. Can't do anything. Does the game send you any automatic bug message every time it crashes? Should I wait or just go to Legacy Build and start playing from the beginning? 

I figured out what was causing the crash. It is either when you manufacture a broken or a new turret for base defenses. 

[Ozh]

Thank you to taking care of this air combat issue. I am the one who has 0 interest in manual air combat. For me the game is not about this and in my mind with minimum effort UFO should be destroyed, damage or escape so I can start my tactical campaign. I can't see any benefit in losing the air combat. Some proportional damage to my fleet is good enough. I would like to see more accent on ground defense, base improvements to take care of excessive UFO spawning. If you can make both sides happy with some settings - great!