Dropship Mission Storage

[Chthon]

I've seen streamers use a tactic of loading up soldiers with additional inventory well past their carrying capacity, and then dropping it all in the dropship on the first turn in case they need things like ammo or grenades. Honestly, ignoring whether or not this is intended or not as a mechanic, as the only way to actually prevent this would be to prevent the player from dropping things or picking things up, why not instead embrace the idea of a dropship storage so that this isn't necessary at all?

Being able to set up a storage for the dropship for extra ammo or materiel on a mission could be useful, but also force the player to return to the dropship should they need to resupply as a penalty. What do you think?

[thixotrop]

Sounds like a déja vu:
Wasn't that an idea as a mod for X1 and later for the earlier game versions of X2.

[Chthon]

3 hours ago, thixotrop said:

Sounds like a déja vu:
Wasn't that an idea as a mod for X1 and later for the earlier game versions of X2.

Never played modded so I don't know. Might be retreading old ground. If so it just reinforces the need rather than dismisses it.

[DaviddesJ]

At least the game should make sure that if you're overloaded at the start of the round then you lose the TU even if you drop the items first thing. So at least there would be some penalty for this tactic.

[Komandos]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:02 AM, Chthon said:

I've seen streamers use a tactic of loading up soldiers with additional inventory well past their carrying capacity, and then dropping it all in the dropship on the first turn in case they need things like ammo or grenades. Honestly, ignoring whether or not this is intended or not as a mechanic, as the only way to actually prevent this would be to prevent the player from dropping things or picking things up, why not instead embrace the idea of a dropship storage so that this isn't necessary at all?

Being able to set up a storage for the dropship for extra ammo or materiel on a mission could be useful, but also force the player to return to the dropship should they need to resupply as a penalty. What do you think?

This feature is present in OpenXcom mods and it has proven itself well there.

This feature diversifies the number of game situations.

I see the problem only in the fact that there are no "two-serial" and "multi-serial" missions (combat missions) in the game, and therefore this opportunity will have a very small impact on the gameplay, although it will add atmosphere.

[doubleskulls]

On 7/8/2023 at 12:02 AM, Chthon said:

Being able to set up a storage for the dropship for extra ammo or materiel on a mission could be useful, but also force the player to return to the dropship should they need to resupply as a penalty. What do you think?

Sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe make it an option to replenish ammo and other consumables in the drop ship? Perhaps controlled by an option. I would say that it possibly would encourage players to take a lot longer over missions without a timer (constantly going back & forth to replenish) which some may be happy with and others consider abusive. IRL I think the drop ship ought to be able to carry a lot of spares so it feels more realistic to me.  

[Boris Eysbroek]

22 hours ago, doubleskulls said:

Sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe make it an option to replenish ammo and other consumables in the drop ship? Perhaps controlled by an option. I would say that it possibly would encourage players to take a lot longer over missions without a timer (constantly going back & forth to replenish) which some may be happy with and others consider abusive. IRL I think the drop ship ought to be able to carry a lot of spares so it feels more realistic to me.  

That would be awesome.

[Chris]

Yeah, if we have time in Early Access I'm willing to consider this. There's a couple of potential issues I see, although they're not necessarily game breakers:

• What items does the dropship carry? Does it get a whole copy of your Armory? If so, what happens if it gets shot down? Or does it just have say a 10x10 inventory grid? The latter is probably a simpler way to do it, although I'd need to figure out the UI flow for it.
• I think there's a danger it encourages even slower play, with people pausing halfway through the mission to go back to the dropship and restock. Might break the flow of the mission a bit.

Ultimately though, as has been mentioned before, it's not like players can't already "hack" extra space by just overloading their soldiers and dropping the gear at the start of the mission. So gameplay balance probably isn't the biggest concern.

[Skitso]

17 minutes ago, Chris said:

Yeah, if we have time in Early Access I'm willing to consider this. There's a couple of potential issues I see, although they're not necessarily game breakers:

• What items does the dropship carry? Does it get a whole copy of your Armory? If so, what happens if it gets shot down? Or does it just have say a 10x10 inventory grid? The latter is probably a simpler way to do it, although I'd need to figure out the UI flow for it.
• I think there's a danger it encourages even slower play, with people pausing halfway through the mission to go back to the dropship and restock. Might break the flow of the mission a bit.

Ultimately though, as has been mentioned before, it's not like players can't already "hack" extra space by just overloading their soldiers and dropping the gear at the start of the mission. So gameplay balance probably isn't the biggest concern.

What if the dropship storage was something that needs to be manufactured and then it would be available in your soldier list the same way as MARS. Then you could replace one soldier (or wehicle?) with it and equip how you please.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Skitso

[Boris Eysbroek]

1 hour ago, Skitso said:

What if the dropship storage was something that needs to be manufactured and then it would be available in your soldier list the same way as MARS. Then you could replace one soldier (or wehicle?) with it and equip how you please.

Great idea. Wouldn't mind sacrificing a soldier slot for a weapon locker/rack with a 10x10 grid (as long as it is optional ofc).

Edited July 19, 2023 by Boris Eysbroek

[Chris]

2 hours ago, Skitso said:

What if the dropship storage was something that needs to be manufactured and then it would be available in your soldier list the same way as MARS. Then you could replace one soldier (or wehicle?) with it and equip how you please.

I think if you did that people would just continue to use the "load soldiers up and drop their equipment" trick instead tbh.

[doubleskulls]

In my head I was thinking perhaps just having a "locker" at the back that you can interact with as a right mouse click when adjacent, and it gives access to all inventory available when equipping a solider (other than armour). Anything that's restricted will just go in the backpack anyway, so unless you want to put more limitations on that (e.g. a TU cost to drop items) then any further restrictions are somewhat pointless.

 

[Getodog]

What about having a robodog that can carry stuff for you? Boston Dynamics came out with the BigDog out in 2005 although it was discontinued after being deemed too loud. Maybe adding some good ol alien tech may make it quieter, and stronger. Since it was discontinued, nobody was going to miss them if they got "borrowed".........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog

[Komandos]

On 7/19/2023 at 10:34 AM, Chris said:

Yeah, if we have time in Early Access I'm willing to consider this. There's a couple of potential issues I see, although they're not necessarily game breakers:

• What items does the dropship carry? Does it get a whole copy of your Armory? If so, what happens if it gets shot down? Or does it just have say a 10x10 inventory grid? The latter is probably a simpler way to do it, although I'd need to figure out the UI flow for it.
• I think there's a danger it encourages even slower play, with people pausing halfway through the mission to go back to the dropship and restock. Might break the flow of the mission a bit.

Ultimately though, as has been mentioned before, it's not like players can't already "hack" extra space by just overloading their soldiers and dropping the gear at the start of the mission. So gameplay balance probably isn't the biggest concern.

What items does the dropship carry?

 

All items that soldiers are able to take with them on a mission.

 

***

 Does it get a whole copy of your Armory?

 

It seems to me that it would be more logical to implement an interface like "objects lying on the ground", or: "individual inventory of soldiers". The player decides for himself what exactly will be there.

 

"Does it get a whole copy of your Armory?" But this option is also interesting, if there is an opportunity to equip soldiers before the start of the task.

 

***

 If so, what happens if it gets shot down?

 

The same thing will happen as if all the soldiers died on a normal mission or lost (used up) all their equipment during the battle.

 

***

 Or does it just have say a 10x10 inventory grid?

 

There is a "box" object in the walls, interactions with it, the soldier gets access to the inventory of this "box".

 Or:

On the adjacent tile with this object (next to the box), an additional switch button: "items in the box" appears in the soldier's inventory (next to the inscription "items on the ground"). By switching the button from "objects on the ground" to the button "objects in the box" - you can access the contents of the box.

 

***

I think there's a danger it encourages even slower play, with people pausing halfway through the mission to go back to the dropship and restock. Might break the flow of the mission a bit.

 

If:

 the speed with which the player completes the task (the number of moves that the player spends on completing the task) has absolutely no effect on the reward that the player receives at the end of the task (reward for completing the task).

 Or: 

while the player has the opportunity to save (get) more artifacts and resources, if he performs the task slowly and carefully. 

Then:

 the player has no reason to hurry somewhere.

 

If: 

during each turn, the UFO will lose 1-2-3 units of fuel (burns in the fire), and the total amount of fuel on board the UFO will be no more than 25-50-75 units,

 then:

     the player will have a choice: 

         either spend several rounds (time) to replenish the inventory of his soldiers, 

          or grab more strategic resources (fuel) on board a UFO.

[Komandos]

On 7/20/2023 at 11:01 AM, Getodog said:

What about having a robodog that can carry stuff for you?

Then it's easier to create a mechanized suit (for your soldiers) that will allow your soldiers to take more inventory with them, but will make your soldiers move slowly and deprive your soldiers of protection (armor).

[Raffik]

 

On 7/20/2023 at 10:01 AM, Getodog said:

What about having a robodog that can carry stuff for you? Boston Dynamics came out with the BigDog out in 2005 although it was discontinued after being deemed too loud. Maybe adding some good ol alien tech may make it quieter, and stronger. Since it was discontinued, nobody was going to miss them if they got "borrowed".........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog

I personally never felt a big need to overstock my soldiers for a mission. Limited carrying capacity makes the game experience more intense and makes you come up with unorthodox ways to combat the aliens, which is a good thing in my opinion.

But more grenades and/or ammo always come handy, so as I am reading through the thread, here are my ideas how this could be approached...

The MARS has a greyed out "backpack" as well, what about using it for extra storage space for clips, grenades etc? It is a limited space (5x5 i believe, but could be made smaller, say 3x3) and as a mechanized unit, the TU loss because of the excess weight could be smaller (say half) than by regular soldier, but still a thing to consider. The carrying capacity would not increase as well, as the MARS unit does not level up. There could be a restriction for certain items as well. And, as the soldiers do level up and their strenght grows, the extra cargo space would be mostly used in the early game I believe.

Another fast idea.... The MARS could have additional primary available (lets call it MULE), which would "unlock" the backpack area and only allow the secondary weapon to be used, sacrificing the primary weapon for storage space usage, but without loss of mobility.

[Komandos]

3 minutes ago, Raffik said:

I personally never felt a big need to overstock my soldiers for a mission. Limited carrying capacity makes the game experience more intense and makes you come up with unorthodox ways to combat the aliens, which is a good thing in my opinion.

We are talking about a kind of "insurance", in case of unforeseen situations (which a novice player cannot predict). If I am playing the game for the first time (or using this difficulty level for the first time), then I cannot predict how much and what I will need in this mission (task), how "cards will fall out". Therefore, naturally, we need a "financial cushion", "insurance" just in case of an unforeseen event. Even you, when leaving home for work, take with you more money than you will need for the trip there and back. And when you go on a trip, you try to take more money than you actually need for living.

[Raffik]

24 minutes ago, Komandos said:

We are talking about a kind of "insurance", in case of unforeseen situations (which a novice player cannot predict). If I am playing the game for the first time (or using this difficulty level for the first time), then I cannot predict how much and what I will need in this mission (task), how "cards will fall out". Therefore, naturally, we need a "financial cushion", "insurance" just in case of an unforeseen event. Even you, when leaving home for work, take with you more money than you will need for the trip there and back. And when you go on a trip, you try to take more money than you actually need for living.

Hi, I understood the point I dislike the overstocking play style (I also saw some streamers use it and it was mentioned in the thread, but of course there are situations, in which anyone would enjoy some more storage space), so my idea was about how the game could allow to store additional equipment like ammo etc using something, that is already in the game (MARS storage space, currently unavailable) instead of having to overstock in case of need of the "cushion" as you called it. Did not mean to offend anyone.

[doubleskulls]

I routinely overstock. I don't need to adjust every soldier's backpack every mission, as they always launch with a full backback and then I drop items that put them over their weight limit. It makes swapping in/out soldiers much simpler to manage.

In practice I'd run back to replace shields and, especially with lasers, magazines. It would be a rare mission I'd go back for more grenades. 

[Komandos]

17 minutes ago, Raffik said:

Hi, I understood the point I dislike the overstocking play style (I also saw some streamers use it and it was mentioned in the thread, but of course there are situations, in which anyone would enjoy some more storage space), so my idea was about how the game could allow to store additional equipment like ammo etc using something, that is already in the game (MARS storage space, currently unavailable) instead of having to overstock in case of need of the "cushion" as you called it. Did not mean to offend anyone.

In Xenonauts 1 (depending on how to position yourself on the UFO map) I could spend a different amount of different ammunition (when storming a UFO of this type). In one case (if the entrance to the UFO was far from the edge of the map) - I spent a lot of ammunition for sniper rifles. In another case (if there were many obstacles and trees) I spent a lot of cartridges for machine guns. In the third case (if the entrance to the UFO was close to the edge of the map) I spent a lot of explosives. Since I couldn't predict how close the UFO entrance would be to the edge of the map, I couldn't predict what stock of certain ammunition I would need. And therefore I tried to load the soldiers as much as possible.

[cman1983]

What about a weight limit or like r they do in real life and do a drop of box in parachute at a random location on tactical map that the highest up rank on mission knows about 

[Komandos]

It's not a bad idea. Send not one transport to the task (mission), but several (1-2-3). Choose one transport that will land and start the battle. The second transport patrols in the air and can drop a special box of ammunition. At the end of the mission (task), this transport delivers trophies to the base. The third transport can land reinforcements, or can quickly evacuate the wounded from the evacuation point. Making up a squadron, you can get different bonuses on the battlefield:

(If there is a "medical" transport in the squadron, your soldiers are treated faster after injuries, and they recover faster. You can evacuate wounded soldiers directly from the battlefield and during the battle. If there is a "cargo transport" in the squad, you can drop ammunition, as well as collect more artifacts at the end of the mission (depending on the results of the mission)). (Nothing is accidentally lost, burned or stolen).

[Raffik]

34 minutes ago, doubleskulls said:

I routinely overstock. I don't need to adjust every soldier's backpack every mission, as they always launch with a full backback and then I drop items that put them over their weight limit. It makes swapping in/out soldiers much simpler to manage.

In practice I'd run back to replace shields and, especially with lasers, magazines. It would be a rare mission I'd go back for more grenades. 

I do not and I routinely run out of H.E.V.Y. rounds only. If I loose the shield or run out of ammo, then so be it and I need to adjust my tactics to reflect that fact. I rather elaborate on how to flank that mf-er who just destroyed my shield than to run for a new one. But that is my play style preference only. Overstocking works fine as well I assume

[cman1983]

Like having the ground option to ask for a evac or a medvac

[Komandos]

4 minutes ago, cman1983 said:

Like having the ground option to ask for a evac or a medvac

In general, I like the idea of three transports for the mission. The presence of additional transports adds new opportunities to your soldiers on the battlefield, and eliminates the urgent need for a more advanced form of transport.