Suggestions to encourage base usage by extending existing concepts.

[Max_Caine]

A while ago, Jean Luc examined ideas for encouraging bases to be more than radar/interception sites. I'd like to revive his thread but with an important exception. I'd like to look at ideas to encourage bases to be more than radar/interception sites but only by evolving and developing extensions to existing concepts, rather than creating new concepts completely.

Encouraging the building of labs across the world

At the moment, is there any reason why labs should be built in places other than in the main base and the main base only? I mean, seriously. Each lab holds 50 scientists, so with 100 that should keep projects rolling until mid-to-late game. Projects appear locked to specific bases, so it seems that there is nothing currently existing to promote labs outside of the main base. I would suggest three additions to the existing system

• Many hands make light work.The proposed research UI allows for the management of multiple labs over a number of sites. Why not permit scientists to be pooled into a single, general pool which can be assigned to projects? By not locking a project to a single base, players would not need to group labs together.
• A fresh perspective. There are diminishing returns on every scientist that is added to a project, and the exact progression of the project is only vaguely hinted at. Categories of progression are divided into Poor, Average, Good and Excellent. To encourage the idea of a worldwide network of scientists discussing and sharing information, I would propose a special bonus. For every base which has a fully-staffed lab, the commander earns a special category of research progression, where the ratio of diminishing returns is significantly reduced up to the new category. E.G. with two bases, each with a fully-staffed lab, a project could earn, say, “Superb” progression with sufficent scientists assigned to it. A third base with a fully-staffed lab could grant an adequately staffed project “Magnificent” progression, etc. etc. This bonus is entirely optional, and can be expensive to achieve, but worth it when you get there.
• Cheaper real estate. An idea shanghaied from Eltee, but one that does work. Give a discount on the first lab built in any particular base, but charge full price for any further labs built. If there is a noticeable difference in price between building a lab in base A and building a lab in base B, most people will prefer to build in base B instead.

Encouraging the building of engineering bays across the world

There are pre-existing reasons why you would build an engineering bay in a new base. Most of them are to do with the fact that alien spacecraft aggressively attempt to maintain air superiority, and will go after slow, lumbering transports if they can. It is less risky to build engineering bays in new bases, but with adequate air support the main base can supply outlying bases. I would make the following proposals.

• Cheaper real estate. As with labs, give a discount on the first engineering bay built in any particular base, but charge full price for any further bays. This should encourage local production over transportation. It would also encourage increased networking between each base as with more distributed engineering bays, there would be an increased local flow of goods between continental bases, as opposed to intercontinental flow between a factory base and its subsidiaries.
  
• Local produce. Reduce the cost for goods transportation under a set distance. If it is cheaper for local bases to supply needs rather than a central factory base, then commanders will be encouraged to spread efforts rather than concentrate them. I would additionally suggest a global discount for transporting staples (i.e. alienium and alien alloys) to allow raw materials to reach the bases that need them.
• It's too damn crowded in here!. Reduce the maximum number of engineers a bay can support. Now, why do that? Increasing networking between bases is good, but a canny commander will probably quickly work out how best to exploit cheaper bays. That means that the commander may never build more than one bay per base, and spread the work around. Additionally, it also reduces the opportunity for a central factory base to become the most efficient option, without discounting factory bases completely.

Encouraging multiple fireteams across the globe

Hoo boy. Up until very recently dropships had a limited range, so the only option to meet the alien threat on the ground was to have multiple fireteams spread about the world. But now it looks like dropships will have infinite or near-infinite range, which in turn means that the most suitable option for commanders will be to focus their efforts on one team, because that team can access most threats. Because they can access most threats, they will become stronger with each battle they fight, so the commander should, logically, have that team fight all the battles, so it can become the strongest it can be. That being said....

• They're everywhere!. Reduce the time that crash-sites stay on the geoscape, and combine mission types to create tougher choices. For example, have a terror mission fire off at the about the same time that a juicy landing craft is shot down. Like XCOM:EU, make it clear to the commander that you can do the missions that you want to do, but you can't do 'em all with one team. Unlike XCOM:EU, provide a ready solution – be able to establish more fireteams.
• Life is cheap. Another one of ElTee's suggestions, make the set-up cost of establishing a fireteam in another base relatively cheap. ElTee suggested a discount on inital base structures connected with fireteams. Perhaps instead offer 12 troopers free with the first barracks built in a new base. However it's done, reducing the set-up costs involved with creating a new fireteam makes a favourable environment for more fireteams.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Max_Caine
Fixed links. No idea why they were wrong.

[TrashMan]

Just make new bases not cost a million, but rather per-tile-used.

Like in new XCOM, you have to expand into new tiles.so a new base that only has a command center, storage nad hangars, would not cost 1 million.

[thothkins]

Some thoughts...

Labs

“Why not permit scientists to be pooled into a single, general pool which can be assigned to projects? By not locking a project to a single base, players would not need to group labs together.“

A number of projects have physical components being investigated. A centralised laboratory project is possibly the most efficient approach, with the huge assumption that it’s a very well equipped research facility.

Shipping parts/ information across the world may take much more time in the 1970s than it does now. Particularly the information part. The devs of the game wanted to have a physical studio to make things easier and that’s with all the advancements made since the 1970s. This is how I see part of the diminishing return aspect in action.

Considering the ad hoc nature of the research required, it would be hard to imagine a single base having all of the available equipment. However, how to differentiate in the game itself – different types of lab? Such as Quantum and Biological as Apocalypse did?

Ordnance – Aircraft/Vehicle – Biological- Psionic could be types of research.

When a lab is built a player could assign a single bonus to that particular lab, simulating geographical/local infrastructure expertise.

Categories of progression are divided into Poor, Average, Good and Excellent. To encourage the idea of a worldwide network of scientists discussing and sharing information

Are the Poor-Average-Good-Excellent are link to percentages of completion? Or are they simply linked to the amount of resource you’ve lumped into it?

“Your project manager says that your 300 scientists are making excellent progress.” – when in fact they are all out getting drunk again.

If it’s the former, then I’m not sure adding adding “Superb” or “Magnificent” really add much to that. Perhaps as the project nears completion, there could be a well, nearly completed sort of adjective.

I’m also not sure that pools of scientists are sharing information quite as rapidly in 1979 as perhaps they would today. Not enough to make adding a lab elsewhere over adding one to your own base.

Give a discount on the first lab built in any particular base, but charge full price for any further labs built.

I can see the reasoning here, but practically speaking it’s going to be easier adding to an existing facility than building a new facility in a completely different part of the world.

A way apocalypse sort of got round that, was to have different sizes of base available to you. Sometimes, you simply couldn’t build an advanced lab in one location, so you were forced to go elsewhere.

Other arguments for cheap expansion.

- Funding nations providing huge labour reductions to attract vitally important defence research into their territory. Personally I’d have loved to have seen this linked in to the hosting nation’s own ability to use local forces later in the game (basically they’re spying on the Xenonauts)

- Progressively increasing costs to build all underground facilities in the game. As the bases are all underground, drilling into the bedrock becomes increasingly more difficult. So, it may well be more cost effective to begin again elsewhere.

Introduction of existing base structures. The back story has Xenonauts decline in resources during the 1960s and 1970s. That would mean that they used to have access to other facilities beyond the starting base.

So, each funding nation could be able to supply a much, much smaller, pre-existing base for you to use.

It would be set on the map. No picking by the player

It would include a lab in the cost.

The overall cost would be cheaper than building a new base+lab construction cost.

Would be restricted in terms of other facilities you could build there.

Engineering

Having lost a few transport planes, building additional workshops is something I’m now doing more of, so that seems to work quite well. This may well reduce when the fighters are balanced though.

Many points form the labs above could be used just as well for this part.

Local produce distances seem fiddly on first thought, for what you would get out of it.

I felt the same about the global staples discount. But, considering I’m always shifting them across in bulk, there could be a bulk discount put in place. (The addition of “DHL have lost your container” could be used)

Networking falls into the same issues I had with the communications technology of the 1970s as mentioned for labs. Quality controlling all the parts form a huge number of sites would be murder and very expensive. It’s probably much more efficient to have certain bases produce certain types of manufacturing. So, as per labs, why to offer manufacturing bonuses for certain workshops.

The first workshop in base gets a single bonus (essentially meaning that the base becomes specialised)

Fireteams

I shall fight the Chinook range encroachment to my very last Xenonaut!

Failing that, I’ll just tweak it out.

Reducing the crash site times is going cause howls of protest as people just miss out on getting there, even with their extended range Chinooks. If you have to do this, then it’s another reason for not adjusting the range in the first place.

Having restricted ranges in the game, is by far the best method for forcing additional squads. Straying form that too much, may not be a good thing.

As above, it’s better to have your rookies train/ work alongside your primary mission team. Which means pushing them towards a single base.

It’s a shame that training is going to be pulled. You could have added in base specific training bonus as per Labs and Workshops above.

Getting free soldiers with your barracks is interesting. Thinking about it, it’s like the Xenonauts are taking over an existing funding nation facility. I’m wondering if this could be linked into being able to purchase a pre-existing base? There’s some sense to a funding country offering a unit, rather than just one or two soldiers. It depends how best-of-the-best the Xenonauts are supposed to be I guess.

I’m sure that there was discussion around having more fragmented facilities around the world, with various bonuses/penalties. Not that any of that is making it into the game, but there may be some relevant thoughts in there too.

[ElTee]

Yeah, really. If Chris wants us to build more bases, he has to make it easier. Not a fan of making it so you can't have specialized bases if you want to, though.

Not only do you have to spend a million for a base, but you have to buy soldiers, living quarters, storage space, a hanger and chinook just to get a barebones base off the ground.

[Gauddlike]

If I was going to add pre built bases as a purchasable item I would have a certain random factor.

Click on purchase facility and you get the option to build a new base or choose from a number of pre built ones.

These would have the control room, stores, hangars, radar, and living quarters as standard with a random layout.

They could also have either a garage, lab, workshop, or extra hangar etc randomly.

You would then have the option of picking up a cheap base with the basics already built but lose the option of placing it in the ideal position or designing the layout.

I would also like the bases to be limited by your standing with the host nation.

A friendlier nation would be likely to have more bases to show you and more would have the bonus facilities.

You may also be able to tie it in with the area of the world it was in if you wanted specific nations to give certain bonus facilities.

[GoodGuyEddy]

“Why not permit scientists to be pooled into a single, general pool which can be assigned to projects? By not locking a project to a single base, players would not need to group labs together.“

A number of projects have physical components being investigated. A centralised laboratory project is possibly the most efficient approach, with the huge assumption that it’s a very well equipped research facility.

The internet technology is invented by the military during the setting so multiple bases do work on the same projects if assighned.

[Gauddlike]

Maybe the alien fleet didn't put a password on its wireless network so we could use that to swap info and as a bonus push their bandwidth usage up.

[thothkins]

A friendlier nation would be likely to have more bases to show you and more would have the bonus facilities.

Yes, I forgot to put that in there. A downside to this is that if you pick a pre-built base from a nation that then sides with the enemy, they know exactly where you are (if they didn't spot you already form orbit that is)

President Putz: Yes. I think you will be very, very happy with the base we have for you.

Sgt thothkins: It's a cardboard box... with a laser cannon standing over it... you've been infiltrated haven't you? >sigh<

The internet technology is invented by the military during the setting so multiple bases do work on the same projects if assighned.

Yeah, I was thinking about that. But even with that being available, it's nowhere near the capabilities of today in terms of group working on projects across anywhere in the world. Comapred to somethign like the 1940s, it would have been a huge difference.

Edited October 20, 2012 by thothkins

[smith350]

I like these ideas; if only because they make multiple play-styles viable, and still make the player answer some more serious logistical questions.

Although, I would like to point out that it may be best to allow labs across different bases to work together, but at a slight disadvantage(means and methods of communication during that time-period) so that a large central lab can still have a place in-game.

[Dangermouth]

I've just gone down the good old game route of specialisation for research and engineering and found that transport costs are going to ..rew me over big time so I might have to have engineers in lots of locations.

I do want to have lots of bases : that's X-COM proper and use them as proper bases, too.

But as things stand I'll have horrendous build/maintenance/staff costs and I can't afford to go into the red, especially if there's a fail condition like in the original game as I've already done one month's worth of that.

I've not done any big building yet, but I would expect that the high-end fighter, for example, to be an expensive beast and I would hope to be able to sell some stuff I manufacture to keep my head above the financial parapet so the state of the economy has become a bit of a concern. Especially when already the AI can take out my vehicles and leave half my troops in 'oppy as I discovered in my first terror mission.

And the cost of the jackal armour?! Ouch. It'll take me 3 months with my 10 techs to equip my troops and about twice that long to afford it (ugh) but I can't afford any more troops etc.

So how do I not go bankrupt? I have been, up to now, darn good at shooting down scouts and collecting goodies so I should be minted (but am not).

Anyroad, back to hunting sebs and co.

[TrashMan]

Another idea would be to actually have a logical dawback of "all eggs in one basket"

Let's say the aliensattack your base. If they damage/destroy a lab, they also destroy research the progress there.

If the aliens can also bombard your base (randomly damage/destroy a tile, wound personell), then that base that's one giant research center suddenly isn't so appealing.

[Belmakor]

If I was going to add pre built bases as a purchasable item I would have a certain random factor.

Click on purchase facility and you get the option to build a new base or choose from a number of pre built ones.

These would have the control room, stores, hangars, radar, and living quarters as standard with a random layout.

They could also have either a garage, lab, workshop, or extra hangar etc randomly.

You would then have the option of picking up a cheap base with the basics already built but lose the option of placing it in the ideal position or designing the layout.

I would also like the bases to be limited by your standing with the host nation.

A friendlier nation would be likely to have more bases to show you and more would have the bonus facilities.

You may also be able to tie it in with the area of the world it was in if you wanted specific nations to give certain bonus facilities.

That's quite an interesting idea. It would work best if the number of locations in at any one time were quite limited (i.e 6 or so around the globe). Otherwise you could end up with a situation whereby there is always a base for sale approximately where you intend to extend your coverage.

An extension of the last sentence; perhaps the offer of the sale of a base could be in response to good performance completing a mission in that nation? Makes sense that the local government would jump at the chance to have the xeno-busters a phone call away.