Steam Demo Feedback.

[Chaos Marine]

I've played for a little while and from my time I have the following suggestions:

Ballistics shields don't appear to block incoming attacks or I was spectacularly unlucky. My guys got attacked and almost every attack caused health damage and the only other times when there were misses.

I'm not particularly a fan of Nu-Com but one of the good things they did was the cover system which I like. as it allows your troops to realistically fire around corners. There is no excuse to put your guy into cover and not be able to shoot around the corners. I can forgive the 90s X-Com games for this but one of the reasons why I enjoyed Xenonauts 1 is that it gave us a modernised game that runs more reliably than the 90s version. There's nothing wrong with including quality of life improvements or at least making them togglable  options.

In the X-Division mod, closing in on enemies gave you significant bonuses to hit and being within two to three squares of an enemy guaranteed an instant hit. This is a great mechanic that gives the right amount of risk to reward ratio.

Speaking of X-Division, I'm not sure if it was X-Division or the base game but I remember being able to cycle between your aircraft with the F1, F2 and F3 keys. This would be a nice quality of life improvement that would be greatly welcomed.

If you're going to add modularity to your aircraft, how about going dialling it to 11? Engines, sensors, ECM/ECCM and utility slots. It's also pretty weird that fighters are stuck to auto-cannons because radar doesn't pick up UFOs but radar is the principal method that we detect UFOs.

I'm not quite a fan of the new medikit system, I would prefer to be able to determine how many points I can spend to at least remove bleeding effects.

It's still early game but the equipment slots seems really restrictive. Few if any games appear to have the multiple equipment locations like having thigh/chest slots. Hopefully armours that we can research later will give better inventory slots or more of them. Perhaps having slots for particular weapons so everyone can have a primary weapon, side-arm and melee weapon? Perhaps giving weight bonuses to keeping certain weapons equipments would lessen the weight like keeping your pistol(s) in the thigh-holster? When the player unlocks power armour, having forearm inventory slots would allow for the equipment of melee weapons for them should they run out of ammo. Like Wolverine claws or even simply being able to fist-fight xenos.

Something I've always wanted in these kind of games would be a testing room which would spawn a simple map that you can practise with your newly researched weapons so you can go into the field with an understanding of how they work.

[Edit]

Added more context to my opinion on taking cover.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Chaos Marine

[Kamehamehayes]

2 minutes ago, Chaos Marine said:

I've played for a little while and from my time I have the following suggestions:

Ballistics shields don't appear to block incoming attacks or I was spectacularly unlucky. My guys got attacked and almost every attack caused health damage and the only other times when there were misses.

Xen 2 significantly changed how shields work. Shields no longer prevent damage entirely, but instead they have an armor value that reduces the damage taken. So your soldier will still take some damage, but that damage will be significantly reduced. Shields will also last longer than they would normally as well, so this change can be argued to be more of a buff than a nerf for shields in general. 

[Chaos Marine]

On 2/6/2023 at 8:29 PM, Kamehamehayes said:

Xen 2 significantly changed how shields work. Shields no longer prevent damage entirely, but instead they have an armor value that reduces the damage taken. So your soldier will still take some damage, but that damage will be significantly reduced. Shields will also last longer than they would normally as well, so this change can be argued to be more of a buff than a nerf for shields in general. 

Will it be possible to mod it back to the original method? 

Having just thought about these right after I'd posted:

Allow the dropship to hold an extra weight of equipment (like additional ammo, grenades, medkits etc. Or give the Mars an inventory so it can be used as a mobile resource pod for medkits, ammo and grenades.

Allow the player to arrange the design of their base.

[Edit]

Different ammo types for weapons. Like you can get dragon's breath shotguns, how about giving different kinds of shotguns. I recall seeing a tazer shotgun shell video a few years back.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Chaos Marine

[mclang]

It was strange in X1 that you select soldiers using numbers 1-0 but use F1-F3 for aircrafts.

Currently I play X2 using Steam Deck, so I'd prefer that you could select also aircrafts using 1-3 numbers like you can select soldiers.

[Chris]

On 2/6/2023 at 8:24 PM, Chaos Marine said:

I've played for a little while and from my time I have the following suggestions:

Ballistics shields don't appear to block incoming attacks or I was spectacularly unlucky. My guys got attacked and almost every attack caused health damage and the only other times when there were misses.

I'm not particularly a fan of Nu-Com but one of the good things they did was the cover system which I like. as it allows your troops to realistically fire around corners. There is no excuse to put your guy into cover and not be able to shoot around the corners. I can forgive the 90s X-Com games for this but one of the reasons why I enjoyed Xenonauts 1 is that it gave us a modernised game that runs more reliably than the 90s version. There's nothing wrong with including quality of life improvements or at least making them togglable  options.

In the X-Division mod, closing in on enemies gave you significant bonuses to hit and being within two to three squares of an enemy guaranteed an instant hit. This is a great mechanic that gives the right amount of risk to reward ratio.

Speaking of X-Division, I'm not sure if it was X-Division or the base game but I remember being able to cycle between your aircraft with the F1, F2 and F3 keys. This would be a nice quality of life improvement that would be greatly welcomed.

If you're going to add modularity to your aircraft, how about going dialling it to 11? Engines, sensors, ECM/ECCM and utility slots. It's also pretty weird that fighters are stuck to auto-cannons because radar doesn't pick up UFOs but radar is the principal method that we detect UFOs.

I'm not quite a fan of the new medikit system, I would prefer to be able to determine how many points I can spend to at least remove bleeding effects.

It's still early game but the equipment slots seems really restrictive. Few if any games appear to have the multiple equipment locations like having thigh/chest slots. Hopefully armours that we can research later will give better inventory slots or more of them. Perhaps having slots for particular weapons so everyone can have a primary weapon, side-arm and melee weapon? Perhaps giving weight bonuses to keeping certain weapons equipments would lessen the weight like keeping your pistol(s) in the thigh-holster? When the player unlocks power armour, having forearm inventory slots would allow for the equipment of melee weapons for them should they run out of ammo. Like Wolverine claws or even simply being able to fist-fight xenos.

Something I've always wanted in these kind of games would be a testing room which would spawn a simple map that you can practise with your newly researched weapons so you can go into the field with an understanding of how they work.

[Edit]

Added more context to my opinion on taking cover.

Thanks. Sorry for the slow reply, and I appreciate you writing this all out.

• Shooting round corners is a way more complex mechanic than it sounds, and it'd probably ruin the game tbh. Think about if an alien did it to you, and how annoying it would be - it'd basically be one of X1's infamous one-way corners where the enemy can shoot you and you can't shoot back. People hated them for good reason. 
• I'm happy to experiment with turning up the short range bonus, but having 100% at short range might be a bit excessive (and totally OP on burst fire weapons). But it'd be an easy thing to try I guess.
• Yeah, you're right about the aircraft hotkeys. Several people have asked for that now so we've set that up in the most recent backer build.
• Medikits may need more attention, yeah. We'll think about it in Early Access depending on what else we have on our radar at that point.
• The inventory kinda has to be restrictive to make the new inventory system work, because the idea is that the player is expected to use most or all of it, balancing available space with carrying capacity (whereas the backpack was mostly unusued in previous versions of X2 because you've already got an extra secondary slot). Yes, it's possible we'll add a melee slot too (I've had a few ideas for it), although it'll complicate the UI. Might end up being something we look at in an expansion pack.

[Chris]

On 2/7/2023 at 7:39 AM, mclang said:

It was strange in X1 that you select soldiers using numbers 1-0 but use F1-F3 for aircrafts.

Currently I play X2 using Steam Deck, so I'd prefer that you could select also aircrafts using 1-3 numbers like you can select soldiers.

Yeah, this is now how it works in v26. We control time with F1-F4 now.

[Chaos Marine]

12 hours ago, Chris said:

Thanks. Sorry for the slow reply, and I appreciate you writing this all out.

• Shooting round corners is a way more complex mechanic than it sounds, and it'd probably ruin the game tbh. Think about if an alien did it to you, and how annoying it would be - it'd basically be one of X1's infamous one-way corners where the enemy can shoot you and you can't shoot back. People hated them for good reason. 
• I'm happy to experiment with turning up the short range bonus, but having 100% at short range might be a bit excessive (and totally OP on burst fire weapons). But it'd be an easy thing to try I guess.
• Yeah, you're right about the aircraft hotkeys. Several people have asked for that now so we've set that up in the most recent backer build.
• Medikits may need more attention, yeah. We'll think about it in Early Access depending on what else we have on our radar at that point.
• The inventory kinda has to be restrictive to make the new inventory system work, because the idea is that the player is expected to use most or all of it, balancing available space with carrying capacity (whereas the backpack was mostly unusued in previous versions of X2 because you've already got an extra secondary slot). Yes, it's possible we'll add a melee slot too (I've had a few ideas for it), although it'll complicate the UI. Might end up being something we look at in an expansion pack.

That's absolutely no problem, I can only imagine how busy you guys are. 

 

I'd actually be fine with the aliens taking cover, running from cover to cover like Nu-Com does. It is probably one of the only positives I can think of from the Fireaxis games. Like I would expect such behaviours from the general aliens and for enemy mechanised units to eschew cover (I don't know if you'll have more than just Androns this time round and I'm eager to see what new aliens you have in the works). As for shooting back, I think that would work better the more went along and get better weapons. Something I quite liked with the original X-Com was blaster bombing barns and alien battleships to create dynamic doorways. I think general terrain/structure damage would be a great addition to the game and as it's no doubt too late to impliment it in game currently, something that could be added in later as an expansion pack or possibly be modded in.

In Xenonauts my favourite team composition would be two to four shield guys, two to four rifle men, two to four heavy gunners and two to four snipers (depending on the dropship size of course). I would have my shieldguys at the fore with the heavy gunners behind them, using the shield guys as mobile cover while snipers would be picking off enemy targets as they come into view and the rifle men laying down covering fire on the aliens. The shield guys would be grenade heavy with a stun rod and the heavy gunners would be rushing up close to blitz the aliens. Early game it was very risky but as you could get off two squeezes of your machine guns, that would be one to two aliens down. I would loose a handful of troopers every week to month but I'd often do really well at later stages when I'd have power armour unlocked.

Unless it really borks how the game runs, I'd think a good number of these options should be something the player could toggle. Like shields providing damage reduction or being an item with HP that breaks when it's expended.

I rarely found myself not using inventory space, my standard trooper would (strength allowed) have two medkits, spare grenadees, a stun rod and ammo with the belt having a side arm and a couple of reloads for it. I'm happy that you'll be expanding the melee more this time round as sometimes in longer missions, having anything as a back up can be a god send. I remember a few times when I was assaulting an enemy base of running out of ammo and needing to scrounge up alien firearms and ammo for the last push. Speaking of which, would you consider the idea of being able to store spare equipment in the drop ship? Like additional medpacks or ammo and grenades? 

 

In regards to complexity, I love complexity. I really like that you can adjust more of your intercepters than just their guns with armour but why not go further? Why not have utility slots, differing engines, sensors etc. Again I know the game isn't far off from release so alot of this won't be able to make it in which I am fine with, it might be something that could be released down the line as an expansion pack or could be modded in (hopefully). Good luck with the release and I hope Xenonauts 2 does really well!

[Conductiv]

overall for the 40 days that the demo lasts I'm fairly happy. though my major concerns are in the weapon upgrade paths and how troops develop, something I couldn't really see in the early game.

like its predecessor, the dread lies in the games exploration during tactical combat. this is magnified during night missions where vision is reduced and the fact that most aliens during the early game seem overwatch happy. this makes the early game very slow as low TU units are constantly moving around checking every corner and reserving TU for overwatches. it gives just the right vibe to the game. also the maps seem to be designed to maximize the amount of corners stuff can hide in. this is however terrible when you play missions with infinite reinforcements or turn timers as this doesn't jive well with the slow methodical approach of the game.

about the equipment that I employed.
-frag grenade being an odd one, extremely effective but the game really doesn't like you using them as it tanks your economy by destroying loot. it also fails to destroy even the most basic cover and it shreds practically no armor when facing the 20 armor guys. explosive does punch through doors and walls, allowing it to kill or hurt enemies on the other side while leaving the obstruction intact. because of the economical setback...I ended up barely employing them, but they are solid tools.
-other support grenades (smoke, flash and demolition) all extremely effective in what they are supposed to do..at least for the first 40 days.. smoke even acts very well as an ad-hoc stun grenade as the lower level aliens can be effectively "gassed" by them. flash suppressed every target I used it on, in X1 its effectiveness dropped during the later stages..so I still have that to worry about. and the demo grenade destroys practically all battlefield cover with a single grenade and shreds armor quite well, while leaving the enemy alive so you can still get loot. it however fails against UFO doors. this being a "new" grenade type I hope it has upgrades to it as well, but its unusually large in the backpack at 4 tiles.
-MARS at 250K and a research a rather expensive investment. I ended up using the heavy plating on it making it slower, but it pretty much needs the armor even at the early stages of the game. in the demo..it instantly repairs post mission. I did not manage to upgrade its plating in time to see the impact of vehicle upgrades.
-player armor seems to scale really fast from  12>25 because it acts like a flat reduction and there is a large damage spread its pretty much a must have. it is also a definitive must have on units that are likely exposed to enemy fire while not relying on smoke. (notably shields) now...if this scaling continues its ether nigh on invulnerable if you manage to be ahead in armor and a 1 shot kill if you don't.
-inserts, don't know their scaling but both the armor and accuracy one are great. it is odd though that they don't have a dedicated slot in the UI to slot them in.
-stun weapons and melee, only really used the baton as its reliable stun. and even though I didn't use the knife, I am happy with the melee inclusion.
-did not use C4...was rather surprised a C4 block was 6 tiles large and heavier then most grenades. because its a placement only explosive I didn't see much use for it in the early game. but being smaller and lighter would certainly promote its use more

weapons:
as suppression is a mechanic and the suppression value apparently depends on the weapon used, it would be great to see this in the weapon chart.
coilgun upgrade: the only upgrade I managed to complete lists a general armor penetration of 5 points, its a pity this doesn't apply to the shotgun (listed at 3) or stacks upon the rifle (listed at 13?) but I have to say that I like that the different weapon tiers now get an extra trait on top of a generic damage buff. the 10% damage scaling is great...as this doesn't cause damage numbers to explode every time you move up a weapon tier.
-HEVY launcher, because it looks like a grenade launcher I actually tried using it like an indirect fire weapon...it is not and it tells you in the flavor text. but it is a pity as it fills almost the same job as a demo grenade. while being a direct fire weapon and less accurate while also being notably heavier limits its potential  
-assault rifles I frequently employ because they are supposed to be a concession between a close range and long range automatic weapon, it performs its long range function very well. however it would benefit from a better close range bonus for its close range function. suppression function was not reliable, probably to prevent threading on the machinegun. 
-snipers have a "didn't move" accuracy bonus, but this bonus is not listed anywhere in the weapon description while this makes the weapon a lot better at hitting stuff.
-machineguns, pistols and shotguns seem to fill their functions well. but I have no idea why the chart damage from the pistol is lower then that of the AR, even though it states that it acts like a AR without an automatic function at close range. 
-shield functions well if the trooper is heavily armored, but is extremely heavy on its own maybe a tad too heavy this early in the game?

air combat:
-used autoresolve almost exclusively. 
-aircraft take long to repair, and aircraft modules are very expensive. its a good thing they can't "die". in the demo though, you can speed up the recovery..it states that this costs something like 250K, but if used...doesn't substract this cost.

[Komandos]

On 2/6/2023 at 11:24 PM, Chaos Marine said:

I'm not particularly a fan of Nu-Com but one of the good things they did was the cover system which I like. as it allows your troops to realistically fire around corners. There is no excuse to put your guy into cover and not be able to shoot around the corners.

If all the aliens will also shoot from around the corner, then how in the game, with such mechanics, where opponents shoot at each other from around the corner - the player's soldiers will attack UFOs? The aliens can easily destroy all the attackers by shooting at them from around the corner and at the same time staying out of the affected area themselves.

[Komandos]

On 2/11/2023 at 2:39 AM, Chris said:

The inventory kinda has to be restrictive to make the new inventory system work, because the idea is that the player is expected to use most or all of it, balancing available space with carrying capacity (whereas the backpack was mostly unusued in previous versions of X2 because you've already got an extra secondary slot). Yes, it's possible we'll add a melee slot too (I've had a few ideas for it), although it'll complicate the UI. Might end up being something we look at in an expansion pack.

In fact: Every item that the player adds to the soldier's backpack is a new "feature" that the player adds to the soldier's capabilities. Therefore, for convenience, the backpack can be made in the form of a number of pockets, in each of which one item can be placed. One cell = one function = one type of equipment.

Each type of equipment (grenade, rifle, first aid kit, etc....) it has its own graphic sign, which is placed on the control panel as a function (opportunity) available to the soldier. For example, as in these games. The rows of slots on the control screen are both the items in the soldier's backpack and the functions that the soldier can use on the battlefield.

[Chaos Marine]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:05 PM, Komandos said:

If all the aliens will also shoot from around the corner, then how in the game, with such mechanics, where opponents shoot at each other from around the corner - the player's soldiers will attack UFOs? The aliens can easily destroy all the attackers by shooting at them from around the corner and at the same time staying out of the affected area themselves.

Grenades.