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Xenonauts-2 December Update

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2 minutes ago, Bayonet12 said:

Cool to hear. 3 teams of 10 soldiers, thats alot. Were you able to run every mission you wanted whenever you wanted with that amount?

Yes it was no problem. 

Wait did I say 10 ? I meant 3 teams of 12 soldiers, my bad.

Edited by Praetorian
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Maybe the ideal solution would be to just have stress as a toggle option. Balance the game around stress being on and make it the default, but allow people to turn it off. Some people will have an easier time then but hey it's their choice how they want to play. I think that would make everyone happy?

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So it would seem 3 teams of 12 is viable which makes sense, ive seen other players hire every unit possible and clear nearly every crash site.

I like having 1 core team of 6 running as many missions as possible, but since im only using 1 team some crash sites are too far to travel. But due to stress system: it would be game over after my 4th battle due to stress. However a player that trains more men and runs every mission can bypass the stress mechanic even though the purpose of stress was to: discourage players from running every mission. And newer players can easily assume that stress means they need to hire more men to have 2+ teams instead of one (such as in darkest dungeon), then the purpose of stress to discourage players isnt working.

I like the idea of discouraging players from running every crash site if there is something else to do.

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Nope to turn off that System is not an Option. And the Devs have a good reason to bring it in "Hardcoded" and as a permanent integration for many Reasons.

The first one is the Predecessor (Xenonauts 1) himself:

X1 wasn´t a game with using your Brain after a while, it was only waiting for an UFO-Swarm or many UFO´s to do the following Routine:

-shooting down,

-send soldiers,

-get the UFO´s and

-use the Material until you were overpowerd

After that you gone (maybe after 6 or 7 Month) to the final Mission and Win.

Ok, it was the first try for the Goldwhawk-Development-Team and they announced their Mistakes very fast and tried to fix it with many Patches, special Versions etc. But the Routine stays the same, which couldn´t get changed.

The second one are the directly Main-Opponents (some older, some younger and one in still directly Opponent-Development):

The other 2 Main-Opponents to Xenonauts 2, which are longer (XCOM 2 / XCOM 2 WotC) or a bit lesser (Phoenix Point with his first 2 Main and 1 small DLC´s) on the Market are the Games which Xenonauts 2 have to deal with. Not to forget the still in Development "UFO2ET", which are still secret in such Systems.

That Parts from the new XCOM-Series and Phoenix Point make the Games to what they are. Realistic in using your Troops! There are many historical examples, why some Countrys lost and get integrated.

On that Game-Parts Xenonauts 2 have to benchmark. X1 is no Benchmark for that, because it is in that Point total unrealistic.

The third one are upcomming Main-Opponents (like XCOM 3 and similar), which will rank of the others with new Features etc.:

I have played all important Games of that Gerne (all old X-Com-Titels, the newest XCOM-Titles, UFO ET, the UFO-After-Series, some Fan Projects [like UFO: AI and such] as well as begunn the new Phoenix Point Game).

Every Game have a Stress- / Timelimit-System. I will try to show you what I mean from my Memorys.

1. the older Ones are going directly to the Soldier (old X-Com-Titels, UFO ET, UFO-After-Series) in the Missions. There you couldn´t move, getting Panic, getting Paralyesd etc. The other Part is the Time Limitier (in old X-Com) it was coupled on the Founding- and Missions-Reports; (in UFO ET) it was coupled on the Energy-Reservers from the Mothership and the Storyline-Time-Limiter; (in UFO-After-Series) it was coupled on specials [in the first Part it was coupled on the Earth-Pealing, in the Second i can´t remember and in the third on the Sleep-Tank-Limiter for the next Generation]

2. the newer Ones (New XCOM, Phoenix Point and in that Point Xenonauts 2) are using the System from the first UFO-After-Game (Phoenix Point) as Time-Limiter as well as the realistic Stress-Limiter for Soldiers. The New XCOM-Series as well as Xenonauts 2 are using the Panic-System-Limiter as well as the realistic Soldier-Stress-Limiter. The Main-Limiter is naturaly the "Hardcoded" Panic- / Skin or whatever Story-Limiter.

The second announced and realy needed one for such Games are the Stress-Level for Soldiers, so that the Player have to think and plan (short using his / her Brain) with the availlible Personal.  "After a Mission is before a Mission", which is the Maxim from all Military and esp. Bussinesman.

Most Games are like the Predecessor Xenonauts 1 where the Gamers haven´t to think much. You all have everything abdunant there after a while. The best Games are where the Players have to make a longtime Plan and esp. using the less ressources correctly. There an other Maxim comes in: "You don´t have only your Head on the Torso to let get in rain in the Torso."

 

Where I give you right in the System here, that it has to be more ballanced. Ideas for that are announced in an sperate Threat. The Stress-Raising and Stress-Sinking have in the Ideas a very good Ballance. We have to see what comes in and what not, because it´s a complete new Feature during Development and many others will follow to make the Game more interessting.

X1 was a good game for a while, but XCOM EU / EW, XCOM 2, XCOM: Chimera Squad and Phoenix Point is much better, because they make you thinking where you have to use your Soldiers.An similar System the Devs get in here, because like Chris said allready the Gamers in X1 get to overpowerd against the Aliens, because we have no limiter there.
 

 

 

Edited by Alienkiller

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15 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

.

If the purpose of stress is to stop people grinding crash site missions, but people are easily able to do it: then the system is flawed. All you do is hire more men and rotate them.

Stress isnt reducing the amount of crash site missions, so simply simply remove the amount of crash sites.

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One thing missing from that is that you pay extra upkeep for the buildings and personnel that are required to do every mission....assuming that's the case. New patch with reduced stress is out so I don't know how that plays yet.

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2 hours ago, odizzido said:

One thing missing from that is that you pay extra upkeep for the buildings and personnel that are required to do every mission....assuming that's the case. New patch with reduced stress is out so I don't know how that plays yet.

Do you know which patch they changed the upkeep? Im watching someone running 4th Dec patch who is mid game atm that hired 46 soldiers.

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Bayonett12, that get implemented in the Beta 16.1 (the last one) with the extra upkeep for Buildings. Therefore you get atm. in the Betas 1 Million more Starting Money.

Now we have Beta 16.2 since today (or yesterday very late evening).

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23 hours ago, Bayonet12 said:

If the purpose of stress is to stop people grinding crash site missions, but people are easily able to do it: then the system is flawed. All you do is hire more men and rotate them.

Stress isnt reducing the amount of crash site missions, so simply simply remove the amount of crash sites.

Reduce the amount of crash sites ? You don't want that. And that's not gonna work because of the Terror mechanic. You start with 1 base, thus covering about 1/3 of the world with a small radar diameter. This means that if 4 UFOs spawn each wave (for example) then you're gonna see only 1 of these per wave if you get lucky, 2 if you get really lucky. And you really need money. If they reduce the number of UFOs that spawn each wave, it's less likely for anything to enter your radar range for the longest periods of time, which means that the 2/3 of the world you are not covering is getting more and more terrorized because of the UFOs doing their genocidal activities over there. You need more crash sites, to get more cash, to open more bases before you Game Over due to continental terror reaching over 100. In other words if they reduce UFO counts, you'll never accumulate enough money on time and then Game Over.

Edited by Praetorian

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7 minutes ago, Praetorian said:

Reduce the amount of crash sites ? You don't want that. And that's not gonna work because of the Terror mechanic. You start with 1 base, thus covering about 1/3 of the world with a small radar diameter. This means that if 4 UFOs spawn each wave (for example) then you're gonna see only 1 of these per wave if you get lucky, 2 if you get really lucky. And you really need money. If they reduce the number of UFOs that spawn each wave, it's less likely for anything to enter your radar range for the longest periods of time, which means that the 2/3 of the world you are not covering is getting more and more terrorized because of the UFOs doing their genocidal activities over there. You need more crash sites, to get more cash, to open more bases before you Game Over due to continental terror reaching over 100. In other words if they reduce UFO counts, you'll never accumulate enough money on time and then Game Over.

Its not me who wants to reduce the amount of crash site missions. I prefer to run every mission but the new stress mechanic design and purpose is to prevent players from grinding every mission /sad face.

Development wants to discourage players from running every crash site so they put stress into the game. But im against stress since it can be bypassed and hinders freedom of gameplay. Plus the stress mechanic can by easily bypassed so players can run every crash site mission anyway.

So if the purpose behind stress is to reduce players grinding crash site missions but its not working, then i would rather see development simply reduce the amount of crash sites by: implementing a chance for alien ships shot down to explode on impact. Players receive small amount of resources from the crash and all aliens died on impact. Afterall if the purpose is to prevent grinding crash missions, then simply prevent players from grinding crash missions.

-

Side note, even though stress would hinder my game style therefore im against it, I will look at ways to bypass stress by using 2 teams of 4 soldiers instead of 1 team of 6. This' why im against it because your goal is to reduce missions, but all you're doing creating something that people will seek to bypass.

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32 minutes ago, Bayonet12 said:

Its not me who wants to reduce the amount of crash site missions. I prefer to run every mission but the new stress mechanic design and purpose is to prevent players from grinding every mission /sad face.

Development wants to discourage players from running every crash site so they put stress into the game. But im against stress since it can be bypassed and hinders freedom of gameplay. Plus the stress mechanic can by easily bypassed so players can run every crash site mission anyway.

So if the purpose behind stress is to reduce players grinding crash site missions but its not working, then i would rather see development simply reduce the amount of crash sites by: implementing a chance for alien ships shot down to explode on impact. Players receive small amount of resources from the crash and all aliens died on impact. Afterall if the purpose is to prevent grinding crash missions, then simply prevent players from grinding crash missions.

-

Side note, even though stress would hinder my game style therefore im against it, I will look at ways to bypass stress by using 2 teams of 4 soldiers instead of 1 team of 6. This' why im against it because your goal is to reduce missions, but all you're doing creating something that people will seek to bypass.

I like how you explained things. But to be honest, when I played the game, it didn't feel like stress was there to discourage grinding. It didn't feel like that at all. It felt like "well my soldiers are getting stressed due to combat, let's give these brave human specimens a rest". They can say it's to discourage, but it doesn't feel like that in the game and it doesn't feel like you need to bypass anything, for which I'm glad. It's feels exactly like the fatigue mechanic in XCOM Long War.

Your chinook at the beginning can carry only 8 soldiers, so hire 8 more on day 1 and it's all fine (or less because you seem to prefer teams of 6 instead of 8 - why is that by the way ?). They cost 10'000 each I think - it's all good.

Just look at the stress mechanic like tiredness, not like the devs want to discourage us, and you won't mind it and it will actually make sense to have it ingame. But I get your point about removing it if it is flawed. Flawed things don't belong in Xenonauts.

Edited by Praetorian

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1 hour ago, Bayonet12 said:

Its not me who wants to reduce the amount of crash site missions. I prefer to run every mission but the new stress mechanic design and purpose is to prevent players from grinding every mission /sad face.

Development wants to discourage players from running every crash site so they put stress into the game. But im against stress since it can be bypassed and hinders freedom of gameplay. Plus the stress mechanic can by easily bypassed so players can run every crash site mission anyway.

So if the purpose behind stress is to reduce players grinding crash site missions but its not working, then i would rather see development simply reduce the amount of crash sites by: implementing a chance for alien ships shot down to explode on impact. Players receive small amount of resources from the crash and all aliens died on impact. Afterall if the purpose is to prevent grinding crash missions, then simply prevent players from grinding crash missions.

-

Side note, even though stress would hinder my game style therefore im against it, I will look at ways to bypass stress by using 2 teams of 4 soldiers instead of 1 team of 6. This' why im against it because your goal is to reduce missions, but all you're doing creating something that people will seek to bypass.

Except people are going to get very annoyed if they shoot down a new UFO and then it doesn't create a crash site until the third or fourth time they shoot it down, and then end up behind the research curve simply because they got unlucky with the "does the UFO make a crash site?" roll. The same goes for any new players that can't figure out how to actually generate a mission to play even though they've done everything right, they've just got unlucky that every UFO they attacked happened to blow up before crashing. There'd be a lot of angry people if we implemented that idea.

The alternative is that we just significantly reduce the number of UFOs that spawn on the Geoscape ... except obviously that makes the Geoscape much less challenging. This is actually the root of the problem; there's a lot more UFOs in Xenonauts than in classic X-Com because we wanted to make the air war more challenging and I assumed that the fact it's boring and repetitive to fight the same crash site over and over again would stop people from fighting every mission when the Airstrike option was available. Unfortunately, I was incorrect.

If it makes you happy to fight the UFO capture mission over and over again, you can still do that. The Stress system forces you to hire significantly more soldiers and that cuts into the resource gain so it doesn't unbalance the game so much. But more importantly, this also gives strategy gamers who don't want to run every mission permission not to do it because it's no longer clearly the optimal strategy, which means they're free to enjoy a more varied gameplay experience. To me, that seems like everyone wins and I'm not sure why you'd object to that (although I'm assuming here that you consider it a good thing to be fighting enemies of the appropriate difficulty).

Anyway, the discussion seems to be going round in circles at this point. Hopefully what I've explained above provides adequate justification for why the system is being implemented, but if not then there's nothing to be gained from me explaining further.

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Good to hear Chris. Everybody wins (you can do every Crash Site if you want, or goes the new Way) that give many differnt Options for the Middle and End-Game.

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

Except people are going to get very annoyed if they shoot down a new UFO and then it doesn't create a crash site until the third or fourth time they shoot it down, and then end up behind the research curve simply because they got unlucky with the "does the UFO make a crash site?" roll. The same goes for any new players that can't figure out how to actually generate a mission to play even though they've done everything right, they've just got unlucky that every UFO they attacked happened to blow up before crashing. There'd be a lot of angry people if we implemented that idea.

The alternative is that we just significantly reduce the number of UFOs that spawn on the Geoscape ... except obviously that makes the Geoscape much less challenging. This is actually the root of the problem; there's a lot more UFOs in Xenonauts than in classic X-Com because we wanted to make the air war more challenging and I assumed that the fact it's boring and repetitive to fight the same crash site over and over again would stop people from fighting every mission when the Airstrike option was available. Unfortunately, I was incorrect.

If it makes you happy to fight the UFO capture mission over and over again, you can still do that. The Stress system forces you to hire significantly more soldiers and that cuts into the resource gain so it doesn't unbalance the game so much. But more importantly, this also gives strategy gamers who don't want to run every mission permission not to do it because it's no longer clearly the optimal strategy, which means they're free to enjoy a more varied gameplay experience. To me, that seems like everyone wins and I'm not sure why you'd object to that (although I'm assuming here that you consider it a good thing to be fighting enemies of the appropriate difficulty).

Anyway, the discussion seems to be going round in circles at this point. Hopefully what I've explained above provides adequate justification for why the system is being implemented, but if not then there's nothing to be gained from me explaining further.

It doesnt work. People just bypass the system without even realizing the purpose of stress.

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1 hour ago, Bayonet12 said:

It doesnt work. People just bypass the system without even realizing the purpose of stress.

Then I would say it's a part of the Strategy gamplay, as these gamers would take extra balancing on their input and output for extra infrastructures (the upkeep of 20+ soldiers each month would be fancy), and as you said, people can run teams of 4-6 to bypass this problem, but on the other hand, it make the ground missions more challenging as well as you have less personel each time and have to rely more on tactics. 

So how players reacts to the stress system would make the gameplay more variable, you either put less effort on ground missions and airstrikes them, or you need to build more base/infrastructure and scratch your head for balancing a huge number of upkeeps. There're no one exclusive type of players for X2 and everyone should have the right to take their own solutions for the stress issue, it's encouraged. 

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3 hours ago, EurekaSeven said:

Then I would say it's a part of the Strategy gamplay, as these gamers would take extra balancing on their input and output for extra infrastructures (the upkeep of 20+ soldiers each month would be fancy), and as you said, people can run teams of 4-6 to bypass this problem, but on the other hand, it make the ground missions more challenging as well as you have less personel each time and have to rely more on tactics. 

So how players reacts to the stress system would make the gameplay more variable, you either put less effort on ground missions and airstrikes them, or you need to build more base/infrastructure and scratch your head for balancing a huge number of upkeeps. There're no one exclusive type of players for X2 and everyone should have the right to take their own solutions for the stress issue, it's encouraged. 

I 100% agree with you, but when I look at intention verses reality something doesn't add up.

1. Do you think players who run every mission should be rewarded for working harder?

2. Should you be punished for wanting to run every mission?

I answer: 1. Yes, players should be rewarded and 2. No, players should not be punished.

If you think you do gain reward for running every mission with 2 teams you are slightly mistaken. Firstly read the quote below. Then remember that your xp gets split between 2 teams and the extra upkeep to maintain extra men is offset by what you gain from crash sites. You might break even by running 2 teams but the reasons as to why are highlighted in the quote below.

On 1/12/2021 at 11:03 PM, Chris said:

"Grinding missions" in this context represents people sidestepping the challenges of the game. There's no tactical or strategic skill in what is essentially just playing the same mission you've already beaten over and over again to make future missions easier simply because you have more resources and overlevelled soldiers relative to what the game is balanced to, so I don't agree that you should reward people for grinding missions.

Stress punishes players who want to run every mission because it's believed that: players who do run every mission are sidestepping the challenge of the game by making it easier and shouldnt be rewarded. I want to fight against all the new diversity and challenges X2 has to offer by running every mission possible, but im treated as someone that's essentially cheating the system and should be punished.

If you think its simply ok because I can figure a way around it, sure I cant figure a way around it. But wtf is up with punishing those who want to farm the core aspect of your game and thinking they should not be rewarded?

 

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Thanks EurekeaSeven. Good Explained from your sight. We don´t wanna punish a Gamer or Reward him / her for doing more officially. The Gamers should have the possibility to navigate the Storyline, esp. in the Midgame and Endgame with that more or less.

Like I said with the right ballance everybody wins and there could be several Routes to win the Game with it. The thinking from that will be the following to make the Storyline for all types of Players more interessting:

1. The Hardcore-Players which will do an rotating Crashsites-Recovery of X1 without delegations. Let them do it if they want. They get more Material, but have a big Army-, Transports-, Vehicle-, and Fighter-Cost every month. Evtl. they ballance with selling Artifacts (like in X1) the monthley Costs a little bit and can with evtl. produced Equipment make use of R & D for the own Soldiers. But they have then low Money for the Buildup, Upgrading etc. from more Bases / Outposts.

2. The careful Players [like me] which not doing every Crashsite to hold my people back for Important Missions (Alien-Bases, Terror-Sites, Special Missions etc.) and get more Money with Delegate some of the Missions (belongs on the Stress-Level) from small, medium and big UFO´s. Therefore the Player can Buildup more Bases and Outposts as well as produce more Upgrades for the Soldiers, Vehicles and Bases.

3. Maybe there are Hybrid-Gamers too, which uses both Alternatives in a very good ballance.

With that 3 Types of Gamers the Game get more Playability and Options to navigate the Storyline, esp. in the Midgame and Endgame.

Edited by Alienkiller

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1 hour ago, Alienkiller said:

1. The Hardcore-Players which will do an rotating Crashsites-Recovery of X1 without delegations. Let them do it if they want. They get more Material, but have a big Army-, Transports-, Vehicle-, and Fighter-Cost every month. Evtl. they ballance with selling Artifacts (like in X1) the monthley Costs a little bit and can with evtl. produced Equipment make use of R & D for the own Soldiers. But they have then low Money for the Buildup, Upgrading etc. from more Bases / Outposts.

You've explained it well. All of the above reasons are the punishment put upon the gamer who wants to do as many combat missions they can. I dont think it will be efficient to do as many combat missions possible. Which is confusing since they want to discourage/reduce the amount of combat missions players do, but combat missions are huge part of the game. 

We know the reason why, it's because X2 development team doesnt believe hardcore players who grind should be rewarded. Again same topic: why should players be punished for doing as many missions possible. 

Philosophically baffles me. Ive never heard of a game punishing people for farming/grinding the core part of the game.

Again, before you say you can still run as many missions as you want: remember all the negative conditions that need to be overcome to do so, and remember Chris' opinion concerning farming missions and that, they dont believe you should be rewarded.

Edited by Bayonet12

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Hello guys, just to say thank you every one for your work or your play testing, because it's the game that i wait most. I come every now and then to see the updates, and i am really happy to finally see i will be able to play the game.

 

What a thing you managed to do with the first game is amazing..

Thanks all.

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I think it's actually so that people don't feel the need to grind every mission and not to punish because they like punishing. I would and do feel the need to grind missions if it is the most beneficial. If the right balance is found I could potentially not feel the need to grind and enjoy the game more. I hope that with enough playing around a good balance can be found.

One thing to keep in mind, bayonet12, is that a simple mod could remove stress from the game. This may be a good option for you. Depending on how things go I may or may not use it as well eventually. If it turns out I want to remove stress from the game I will post the mod for you.

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1 hour ago, odizzido said:

I think it's actually so that people don't feel the need to grind every mission and not to punish because they like punishing. I would and do feel the need to grind missions if it is the most beneficial. If the right balance is found I could potentially not feel the need to grind and enjoy the game more. I hope that with enough playing around a good balance can be found.

One thing to keep in mind, bayonet12, is that a simple mod could remove stress from the game. This may be a good option for you. Depending on how things go I may or may not use it as well eventually. If it turns out I want to remove stress from the game I will post the mod for you.

Well grinding in games is only done for several reasons. People who are more careful or new to the game might need to grind more to overcome the same task experienced players can do without grinding, and some players need to grind to catch up due to losses. Some people enjoy the grind and want to be the best, while others dont see it as a grind since they simply enjoy doing so. I think all these reasons apply to X2, and I do wonder about the effects for newer players losing experienced soldiers and struggling to finish the game since they cant grind xp that well to defeat final missions. When that's the case their game might be halted for a long time, until they can rebuild their soldiers back to respectable level to take on predator mechanics. People have already come into problems being unable to finish their game with the: Liaison system that gives limited Scientists and Engineers.

 

But as for stress, upkeep costs and feedback from Chris. I fear that if I were to play X2 as my first Xenonauts game I would have quit because I am unaware of the intended details behind stress, and I fear newer players will get tripped up on the hidden aspects as well. The only reason I understand how the system works is from constantly questioning things. Without the information ive learn from asking questions, my X2 experience would be extremely discouraging to say the least. With that said, I still object to the core drive that's: players who grind should not be rewarded. Which is why stress and higher upkeep was added as punishment.

I would rather see drive towards making missions so amazing and thrilling, that even if players did grind every mission possible: the experience would be so enjoyable it didnt feel like a grind.

For me ill play X2 the way they're wanting us to play, simply out of efficiently sake. But only because I have learnt that's their intention. However I know if this was my first time playing X2 I would get frustrated with it. I know what I would do too. I would hire more men to run as many missions possible but find my progress tedious and find stress an annoying limiter and quit playing.  But if someone directly told me about the system they're aiming for, then I would adjust my expectations since I wrongly assumed I needed to run as many missions possible to be competitive. 

For new players I fear they can easily fall into this trap, since the replies I about this topic is: well players can still run as many missions as they want. But we all know that running every mission is dead end. It hardly gives the player reward and it seems clear that it makes the game harder to run every mission (but that isnt directly obvious). Which again poses issues for new players since they're unaware of the ultimate conclusion that trying to run every mission is a negative to overall gain, even though logically it should grant players a bonus since: more work = more reward.

Or to put it simply, it's not logically or intuitively obvious that a player should assume that grinding as many missions possible would result in a: negative or no change to overall outcome.

It's not logically or intuitively normal to expect players to understand the idea of: players who grind should not be rewarded.

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Bayonett12, in all similar Games I have played before the new XCOM-Series and Xenonauts 2 that was the only Playstile. There were other hardcoded Limitations in it, which you can´t see. So the Stress-System for Xenonauts 2 as well as the new XCOM-Series / Phoenix Point is a nice and overall better Option. It´s readable in an In-Game-Description in all of the Games. And in Xenonauts 2 it get explained in the Tutorial when the Tutorial is ready.

In the old X-Com-Series (esp. X-Com: EU, X-Com: TftD as well as X-Com: Interceptor) and UFO Extraterestials that was only Looting as much the one and only Playstile. Esp. in the Midgame / Endgame you had to sell Things to balance your Money.

In the old X-Com-Series (the first deputy of that Gerne) the Money Defizit / done Points in the Monthly Reports was an Hardcoded Limiter too, because an other Explenation ins´t possible.

In the 14 Years old UFO Extraterestials it is the Energy-Level from the Alien-Mothership over Earth, which the smaller Ships (and the Battleship is one such a small one) have to earn on the only other Planet where the Humans get feet on.

Only in one of the old X-Com-Series the Devs tested an upgrade to that (X-Com: Apocalypse), but the Limiters were the same. Either you won the Game or lost it. So I could explain your thoughts without getting agressive.

Now about 20 Years later (+/- some years from the last official Games in that Playstile UFO ET / X-Com: Interceptor), there can be done more in the Refits from the Originals. With the maximum 3 Playstiles I have anounced the Storyline can better integrated.

Therefore I love the new XCOM-Series, Phoenix Point and Xenonauts 2. Here you see the official Limiters (Panic / Alien-Plan or such) directly from Beginning on. And in Every Game you have a Stress-Level integrated. Either in the direct Confrontation (you can´t move and die etc.) or in the inderect Confrontation (like here or the new XCOM-Series / Phoenix Point).

 

Edited by Alienkiller

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23 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

Bayonett12, in all similar Games I have played before the new XCOM-Series and Xenonauts 2 that was the only Playstile.

If all similar games you've played before XCOM and X2 also believe players who grind should not be rewarded, im all ears. 

It's difficult to engage in a full conversation because I dont believe you understand what im saying.

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Bayonett12, that could be. But my Expierence in the old Games 30 to 14 Years ago of that or a similar Gerne (dosen´t matter you play on MSDOS or MSWindows), were that you don´t get rewarded.

But Xenonauts 2 will have Steam-Rewards. One we Testers have already (Welcome to Earth). There are atm 17 Steam-Rewards, but ingame Rewards you won´t get.

I and all others never get Ingame Rewards in X-Com: EU, X-Com: TftD, X-Com: Interceptor, X-Com: Apocalypse and the Shooter X-Com: Enforcer (all of them are that you don´t get ingame rewards) as well as in UFO: Extraterestials, UFO-After-Row, the Fanproject UFO: Alien Invasion and other Fanprojects like Open X-Com / Open Apoc.

I´m sure there will be an Steam Reward for the Gamers which play with Looting, with Safety and with a mix of Both like in the new XCOM-Row (XCOM EU / EW, XCOM 2 / XCOM 2 WotC and XCOM Chimera Squad) as well as Phoenix Point Steam Rewards.

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9 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

Bayonett12, that could be. But my Expierence in the old Games 30 to 14 Years ago of that or a similar Gerne (dosen´t matter you play on MSDOS or MSWindows), were that you don´t get rewarded.

The time of MDOS was a long time ago. X2 should be trying to understand the current generation of players.

Games in todays world reward players for working hard. More you put in, more you get out. Developers understand how games can feel repetitive so they invigorate these areas to make it more enjoyable. You cannot avoid repetition, but you can make it more enjoyable. 

Every major game atm tries to make all the things that make a game repetitive and make it fun. Thats how you beat repetition.

I dont understand why you havent addressed my sentence that ive repeated several times: I would rather see drive towards making missions so amazing and thrilling, that even if players did grind every mission possible: the experience would be so enjoyable it didnt feel like a grind.

Honesty who would not want missions to be so thrilling and exciting, you dont notice any repetition. I guess im alone?

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