Bayonet12

You have no idea what you're talking about. Single player children games from 1996 rewarded players who grinded. Other games such as: Baulders Gate, Diablo, Everquest, Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Heros of Might and Magic, the list goes on and on. In all these games players can choose grind and be rewarded. Players can spend as much time as they wanted to level up, farm gear and max themselves. The more time you put into farming/grinding, the more rewards you got. Same concept as: working overtime, going to the gym, studying, practicing singing, painting, car racing. The more time you invest, the more reward you get, the stronger you get. Im pretty sure we're living in the same planet right? How can what I say be such an alien concept?

I am not talking about steam rewards. Grinding in games is like working overtime at work. If you get paid by the hour and work 2 hours longer everyday, plus Saturdays and Sundays, you get paid equal to the hours you've put in. By no means am I talking about steam rewards. I am talking about the universal belief that you should be rewarded equal to the work you've put in. Since you played older games from DOS days, you might not be aware of what im talking about, but grinding has been mainstream since around 1996. Why am I talking about this topic so much? Because I was told that players who grind shouldn't be rewarded, which is like saying people who work overtime dont deserve the extra pay.

The time of MDOS was a long time ago. X2 should be trying to understand the current generation of players. Games in todays world reward players for working hard. More you put in, more you get out. Developers understand how games can feel repetitive so they invigorate these areas to make it more enjoyable. You cannot avoid repetition, but you can make it more enjoyable. Every major game atm tries to make all the things that make a game repetitive and make it fun. Thats how you beat repetition. I dont understand why you havent addressed my sentence that ive repeated several times: I would rather see drive towards making missions so amazing and thrilling, that even if players did grind every mission possible: the experience would be so enjoyable it didnt feel like a grind. Honesty who would not want missions to be so thrilling and exciting, you dont notice any repetition. I guess im alone?

If all similar games you've played before XCOM and X2 also believe players who grind should not be rewarded, im all ears. It's difficult to engage in a full conversation because I dont believe you understand what im saying.

Well grinding in games is only done for several reasons. People who are more careful or new to the game might need to grind more to overcome the same task experienced players can do without grinding, and some players need to grind to catch up due to losses. Some people enjoy the grind and want to be the best, while others dont see it as a grind since they simply enjoy doing so. I think all these reasons apply to X2, and I do wonder about the effects for newer players losing experienced soldiers and struggling to finish the game since they cant grind xp that well to defeat final missions. When that's the case their game might be halted for a long time, until they can rebuild their soldiers back to respectable level to take on predator mechanics. People have already come into problems being unable to finish their game with the: Liaison system that gives limited Scientists and Engineers. But as for stress, upkeep costs and feedback from Chris. I fear that if I were to play X2 as my first Xenonauts game I would have quit because I am unaware of the intended details behind stress, and I fear newer players will get tripped up on the hidden aspects as well. The only reason I understand how the system works is from constantly questioning things. Without the information ive learn from asking questions, my X2 experience would be extremely discouraging to say the least. With that said, I still object to the core drive that's: players who grind should not be rewarded. Which is why stress and higher upkeep was added as punishment. I would rather see drive towards making missions so amazing and thrilling, that even if players did grind every mission possible: the experience would be so enjoyable it didnt feel like a grind. For me ill play X2 the way they're wanting us to play, simply out of efficiently sake. But only because I have learnt that's their intention. However I know if this was my first time playing X2 I would get frustrated with it. I know what I would do too. I would hire more men to run as many missions possible but find my progress tedious and find stress an annoying limiter and quit playing. But if someone directly told me about the system they're aiming for, then I would adjust my expectations since I wrongly assumed I needed to run as many missions possible to be competitive. For new players I fear they can easily fall into this trap, since the replies I about this topic is: well players can still run as many missions as they want. But we all know that running every mission is dead end. It hardly gives the player reward and it seems clear that it makes the game harder to run every mission (but that isnt directly obvious). Which again poses issues for new players since they're unaware of the ultimate conclusion that trying to run every mission is a negative to overall gain, even though logically it should grant players a bonus since: more work = more reward. Or to put it simply, it's not logically or intuitively obvious that a player should assume that grinding as many missions possible would result in a: negative or no change to overall outcome. It's not logically or intuitively normal to expect players to understand the idea of: players who grind should not be rewarded.

You've explained it well. All of the above reasons are the punishment put upon the gamer who wants to do as many combat missions they can. I dont think it will be efficient to do as many combat missions possible. Which is confusing since they want to discourage/reduce the amount of combat missions players do, but combat missions are huge part of the game. We know the reason why, it's because X2 development team doesnt believe hardcore players who grind should be rewarded. Again same topic: why should players be punished for doing as many missions possible. Philosophically baffles me. Ive never heard of a game punishing people for farming/grinding the core part of the game. Again, before you say you can still run as many missions as you want: remember all the negative conditions that need to be overcome to do so, and remember Chris' opinion concerning farming missions and that, they dont believe you should be rewarded.

I 100% agree with you, but when I look at intention verses reality something doesn't add up. 1. Do you think players who run every mission should be rewarded for working harder? 2. Should you be punished for wanting to run every mission? I answer: 1. Yes, players should be rewarded and 2. No, players should not be punished. If you think you do gain reward for running every mission with 2 teams you are slightly mistaken. Firstly read the quote below. Then remember that your xp gets split between 2 teams and the extra upkeep to maintain extra men is offset by what you gain from crash sites. You might break even by running 2 teams but the reasons as to why are highlighted in the quote below. Stress punishes players who want to run every mission because it's believed that: players who do run every mission are sidestepping the challenge of the game by making it easier and shouldnt be rewarded. I want to fight against all the new diversity and challenges X2 has to offer by running every mission possible, but im treated as someone that's essentially cheating the system and should be punished. If you think its simply ok because I can figure a way around it, sure I cant figure a way around it. But wtf is up with punishing those who want to farm the core aspect of your game and thinking they should not be rewarded?

It doesnt work. People just bypass the system without even realizing the purpose of stress.

Its not me who wants to reduce the amount of crash site missions. I prefer to run every mission but the new stress mechanic design and purpose is to prevent players from grinding every mission /sad face. Development wants to discourage players from running every crash site so they put stress into the game. But im against stress since it can be bypassed and hinders freedom of gameplay. Plus the stress mechanic can by easily bypassed so players can run every crash site mission anyway. So if the purpose behind stress is to reduce players grinding crash site missions but its not working, then i would rather see development simply reduce the amount of crash sites by: implementing a chance for alien ships shot down to explode on impact. Players receive small amount of resources from the crash and all aliens died on impact. Afterall if the purpose is to prevent grinding crash missions, then simply prevent players from grinding crash missions. - Side note, even though stress would hinder my game style therefore im against it, I will look at ways to bypass stress by using 2 teams of 4 soldiers instead of 1 team of 6. This' why im against it because your goal is to reduce missions, but all you're doing creating something that people will seek to bypass.

Do you know which patch they changed the upkeep? Im watching someone running 4th Dec patch who is mid game atm that hired 46 soldiers.

If the purpose of stress is to stop people grinding crash site missions, but people are easily able to do it: then the system is flawed. All you do is hire more men and rotate them. Stress isnt reducing the amount of crash site missions, so simply simply remove the amount of crash sites.

So it would seem 3 teams of 12 is viable which makes sense, ive seen other players hire every unit possible and clear nearly every crash site. I like having 1 core team of 6 running as many missions as possible, but since im only using 1 team some crash sites are too far to travel. But due to stress system: it would be game over after my 4th battle due to stress. However a player that trains more men and runs every mission can bypass the stress mechanic even though the purpose of stress was to: discourage players from running every mission. And newer players can easily assume that stress means they need to hire more men to have 2+ teams instead of one (such as in darkest dungeon), then the purpose of stress to discourage players isnt working. I like the idea of discouraging players from running every crash site if there is something else to do.

Cool to hear. 3 teams of 10 soldiers, thats alot. Were you able to run every mission you wanted whenever you wanted with that amount?

Im seriously lost for words. I thought all the new features were to create diverse maps with variable enemies to overcome and enjoy. But im told by the X2 Project Lead that players like myself who enjoy running every mission should not be rewarded by doing something that requires no tactical or strategic skill and should be punished. Going from bad to worse wtf. Its funny how Alienkiller never talked about the 2 other people who also raised concerns and objection to stress being added. Edit: Although ive already listed other ideas, another simple idea is to just have alien ships explode on impact hitting the earth. Its not normal to have survivor when a ship is shot down. Problem solved and no stress, literally.

Im EXTREMELY puzzled as to why you think players who run every mission should be punished for making the game easier. I thought I was playing the game. Doing a good job running every mission. I had no idea I was considered to be doing something that requires no tactical or strategic skill. Im actually quite disturbed by what you said. I thought you were adding more missions, better alien AI, more alien mix, new alien type so that missions had: more depth and variety so they were less repetitive, and more enjoyable. Well idk what to say. I thought playing missions on harder difficulty represented tactical and strategic problem solving. I dont see anything other then ground missions challenging or tactical. Is there a new game mode coming out? Well ive seen players on X2 beta hire every soldier possible and run almost every mission, so I dont think the message is obvious or working. If stress is added for the purpose of reducing missions, but doesnt work and isnt obvious then its not doing its job. There are draw backs to stress, but you dont care because you think people who run every mission are making the game easier and should be punished. I play every mission - get punished for playing...20 days in recovery GG.