Help for the FNG: Bugs or am I doing it wrong?

[Kalexon]

Hey, so I've been playing the public demo (waiting on my Desura key after kickstarter) but I've been running into some oddities in the game, and I was wondering if these were bugs on my end, features not implemented yet, or me just sucking.

First, UFOs never land, I always have to shoot them down. Again wondering if this was a bug or a it just isn't in v10.2/Public Demo

This leads into my second problem: Because I have to shoot them down, when the scout ships start showing up (scouts, not light scouts) and I shoot them down, the power source always blows up, which means I don't get a power source, meaning I can't research stuff that I'm gonna start needing really soon.

Research I'm missing out on: UFO power source, alenium, alien alloy fabricator, laser weapons, and anything else I don't know about.

Anyway, thanks for hearing me out, and I appreciate the help and understanding.

[Kimberly]

I haven't seen any UFOs land, either---are they supposed to?

As far as I can tell, a power core remaining intact is just random chance. Every time you blow a scout out of the sky, it may or may not appear on the map with an intact power core. If it's intact, you get it at the end of the mission and unlock further research. (Note that it's possible to blow it up by shooting at it or using explosives near it, so be careful during ground combat.)

[Gorzahg]

UFOs don't land because they're bugged.

[Swe_Racoon]

Getting an intact power source is indeed random, maybe based on what kind of weapon did the killing blow (though missiles often tend to just obliterate the UFO in the sky). I'd say they pop up in 1 out of 4 or 5 UFOs I shoot down.

And UFOs sometimes display altitude as "Grounded" for me, but once I close the pop-up window they are on the move. Dunno about that, to be honest. Could be it's not implemented, or as Gorzahg said, bugged.

[Chris]

The UFO's don't land in the public build, though some of the UFO types should in the next update. When you shoot down a craft, there should be a 40% chance that the power cores explode. So you should be able to recover power cores more often than not...

[s300pmu1]

Hey, I'd love to chip in as another FNG.

1. Have a bit of a problem: never seem to secure a ufo after tactical mission. I read here that you have to hold a unit "in" the UFO for several turns (I assume the number specified on the splash screen for tactical mission, i.e. 5 turns). However:

- if I hold a unit there and kill all the aliens, the mission ends and the ufo is not secured

- if I hold the unit there and intently do NOT kill any aliens, aliens escape, and the ufo is not secured

Pretty much stuck with this. Now seriously, people, how do you imagine that situation? The ufo crash-lands, a supra-governmental military body moves in, kills all aliens; now that'd pretty much assume they can "secure" the ufo and do whatever they want with it, just like in the original x-com and in clones such as ufo:ai, ufo afterlight etc.

2. Aliens do not appear to show any hostile intent towards civs\PCs. Assume it's an early version (alpha v9.1) bug\WIP.

3. Unlike the original, there's no way to see "behind the buildings" when you have a soldier there. Unlike clones, map can't be rotated.

So if there's a building obstructing the view, and I have both a soldier and an alien behind it, I can't target, although the soldier has LOS to the enemy. The only workaround is to have another soldier _enter_ the first floor of the building in question and approach a door to the "showdown", if available, then the building becomes "transparent" and I can finally see what's going on and target the enemy with the original soldier. Very unplayable in this respect, less of a problem now while there's generally a single tactical map, more so when there'll be more maps...

4. "Corpse destroyed" - isn't it overly simplistic? Yes, the thing is not alive, but something tells me that unloading a pistol\AR\shotgun into an alien would render a pretty much intact and researchable corpse. I'd guess the alternative approach where researching corpses give access to certain tech, while researching\interrogating live specimens gives access to even more tech.

5. Furthermore, wouldn't it be possible to capture a live alien before developing ranged stun weapons by e.g. approaching the alien with e.g. 2 or more units? This would introduce an element of high risk\high reward early in the game. You either lose these guys, or have them overpower the alien together if you plan correctly. Neat idea, no?

6. "Hidden movement" between turns - I'd assume the aliens in LOS of soldiers would move without this sign and their movement would be visible to the player, not only their end state. This is logical, no? Only truly hidden movement (i.e., of the units not in the LOS of PC's) should be hidden.

7. Any chance to enhance civilians' behavior? Two obvious choices: introduce panic mode where they move uncontrollably, and allow soldiers to direct them to the dropship, so that they would not get in the way. Directing them would cost TUs, but still, realistic, no?

Now I've written this I realise some of it belongs to feature request, so I'll repost the relevant part there.

[Kalexon]

Okay, finally managed to get an unexploded power core, but that was once out of about 5 or 6 tries, much less then 40% so you might want to check on the code for that, make sure everything's functioning correctly (no pun intended)

I'm gonna start a new game soon, and I'll let you know my success rate that time around just to make sure.

EDIT: I was up late! What do you want from me, actual comedic material?!

Edited May 29, 2012 by Kalexon

[Gauddlike]

@s300pmu1

1, not done much of this but I don't think it always works.

Might not be fully implemented so Chris might be able to clear that up.

2, Have you downloaded the KS version V10?

In that one the civvies and allies are not safe.

3, Visibility of units is a definite problem.

Chris has said the engine is a bit clunky but he is looking into a way to make it clearer when you have someone behind a wall.

Either some kind of transparency or highlighting soldiers etc.

4, I am assuming you are referring to the message on the mission complete screen?

The game keeps the first one you find or research then any others are destroyed/disposed of.

It isn't a message about the condition of the body, it is telling you what happened to it afterwards.

5, You will be able to use the stun rod to capture aliens once you have an alien containment.

6, That is pretty much the way hidden movement is supposed to work.

It isn't perfect at the moment but it is still in an early stage.

7, The game AI is also not complete.

The civilians, as well as aliens, will have different reactions once the more advanced AI is finished.

[Belmakor]

Okay, finally managed to get an unexploded power core, but that was once out of about 5 or 6 tries, much less then 40% so you might want to check on the code for that, make sure everything's functioning correctly (no pun intended)

I'm not convinced there was a pun in that sentence. Hints of a double entendre maybe but...

[Gauddlike]

If it is a random chance then you would need to do a lot more testing to decide if it was bad luck or a faulty system.

Six tries isn't many really.

Might be someone out there who got five out of his first six tries and is wondering why you were struggling so much

[Gorlom]

Hey, I'd love to chip in as another FNG.

Almost all of your list points are features that arent fully implemented yet. I get the feeling you assume that the current version is feature complete, which is wierd since you make a reference to Alpha and work in progress in point number 2.

Furthermore how did you manage to get a problem with number 3? Did you accidentally press the "TGL RF" button and then not switch it back? Or are you playing an older version then the one available on the kickstarter page?

Pressing the TGL RF button should reduce the buildings to the current camera level makeing it uneccesary to move a soldier inside the building to be able to see aliens behind it.

1. You do secure it as long as you win in either way, it's just that you melt it down for scraps (alloys, powercores, navigational instruments etc.) curently. I'm not sure if you will acctually do anything else with it later on. What were you expecting would happen when you secure an UFO?

2. See Gauddlikes comment.

3. WIP and you have missed the workaround in the TGL RF button.

4. You have missunderstood what has happened. See Gauddlikes comment

5. Not yet implemented feature. It will be added later.

6. WIP. It's simply buggy atm.

7. WIP. All AI in the game is currently placeholder AI. It's a very basic form of AI so we are able to play the game at all.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Gorlom

[Gauddlike]

I figured by secure the post was about the take and hold for 5 turns victory condition not working.

[Gorlom]

1. Have a bit of a problem: never seem to secure a ufo after tactical mission. I read here that you have to hold a unit "in" the UFO for several turns (I assume the number specified on the splash screen for tactical mission, i.e. 5 turns). However:

- if I hold a unit there and kill all the aliens, the mission ends and the ufo is not secured

- if I hold the unit there and intently do NOT kill any aliens, aliens escape, and the ufo is not secured

Pretty much stuck with this. Now seriously, people, how do you imagine that situation? The ufo crash-lands, a supra-governmental military body moves in, kills all aliens; now that'd pretty much assume they can "secure" the ufo and do whatever they want with it, just like in the original x-com and in clones such as ufo:ai, ufo afterlight etc.

The way I read it he managd to end the battle and some aliens escaped. (that's the only way I know how to let aliens scape) but he didn't experience that he captured the UFO for some reason.

So I want to know what he expects when he says that the UFO isnt secured when he wins.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Gorlom

[Kalexon]

I'm not convinced there was a pun in that sentence. Hints of a double entendre maybe but...

This is true, apologies, I was up into the wee hours and suffering from a serious case of sleep-deprived-madness, so my brain passed "pun" back to me instead of "double entendres", sorry for the mix up. At least it was just an off by one error. Boom, programming joke, oh snap son!

[Swe_Racoon]

Hey, I'd love to chip in as another FNG.

1. Have a bit of a problem: never seem to secure a ufo after tactical mission. I read here that you have to hold a unit "in" the UFO for several turns (I assume the number specified on the splash screen for tactical mission, i.e. 5 turns).

I think the UFO is dismantled into Allien Alloys, actually (along with power sources if they're intact).

2. Aliens do not appear to show any hostile intent towards civs\PCs. Assume it's an early version (alpha v9.1) bug\WIP.

The newest build is 10.2 I think, and aliens sure do shoot at civilians in that one.

3. Unlike the original, there's no way to see "behind the buildings" when you have a soldier there. Unlike clones, map can't be rotated.

So if there's a building obstructing the view, and I have both a soldier and an alien behind it, I can't target, although the soldier has LOS to the enemy. The only workaround is to have another soldier _enter_ the first floor of the building in question and approach a door to the "showdown", if available, then the building becomes "transparent" and I can finally see what's going on and target the enemy with the original soldier. Very unplayable in this respect, less of a problem now while there's generally a single tactical map, more so when there'll be more maps...

Not sure what you're getting at here. There's a button called TGL RF or somesuch that toggles roofs, I think. As for not seeing directly behind walls, Guaddlike has it spot on.

4. "Corpse destroyed" - isn't it overly simplistic? Yes, the thing is not alive, but something tells me that unloading a pistol\AR\shotgun into an alien would render a pretty much intact and researchable corpse. I'd guess the alternative approach where researching corpses give access to certain tech, while researching\interrogating live specimens gives access to even more tech.

Researched bodies are destroyed instead of stacking them at the base, which was always an annoyance in the original, where I'd end up with something like 150 Floaters in storage. In the current build, once autopsies are done any new specimen of the same species are destroyed, probably after the battle as part of some clean-up or other.

5. Furthermore, wouldn't it be possible to capture a live alien before developing ranged stun weapons by e.g. approaching the alien with e.g. 2 or more units? This would introduce an element of high risk\high reward early in the game. You either lose these guys, or have them overpower the alien together if you plan correctly. Neat idea, no?

Capturing live aliens isn't in yet, but I'd wager my right paw it will be in at some later version or the final build. I think the research topics are in the game files, just not available through gameplay as of now.

6. "Hidden movement" between turns - I'd assume the aliens in LOS of soldiers would move without this sign and their movement would be visible to the player, not only their end state. This is logical, no? Only truly hidden movement (i.e., of the units not in the LOS of PC's) should be hidden.

In the current build, it works as described above AFAIK. Current build once again being v10.2.

7. Any chance to enhance civilians' behavior? Two obvious choices: introduce panic mode where they move uncontrollably, and allow soldiers to direct them to the dropship, so that they would not get in the way. Directing them would cost TUs, but still, realistic, no?

As Gauddlike said, the current AI is a placeholder.

I'd advise you go to the Kickstarter page and get the latest build. It's public demo and all.

EDIT: Pretty much ninja'd by Gorlom, due to me not reading the entire topic before posting. Daft mammal is daft, m'yes.

[Gorlom]

EDIT: Pretty much ninja'd by Gorlom, due to me not reading the entire topic before posting. Daft mammal is daft, m'yes.

I "ninjaed" you by 26 hours? that is some stealthy posting by me

[Swe_Racoon]

Gorlom, superior unrivaled time manipulating ninja, stealth master second-to-none and Swedish viking.

Now there's a title to be feared

[Chris]

Yup, basically the answers have been given above. Most of what you're looking for hasn't yet been implemented properly, or if it has it will be better signposted in the final version!

[Kaje]

How are you guys actually managing to shoot down UFOs and get ground missions?

I've shot down around 25 crafts, all over land, and not one has generated a crash landing/ground mission for me to send my troops to.

Not a single one.

What am I doing wrong?

[IceVamp]

How are you guys actually managing to shoot down UFOs and get ground missions?

I've shot down around 25 crafts, all over land, and not one has generated a crash landing/ground mission for me to send my troops to.

Not a single one.

What am I doing wrong?

1) Where they fighters?

Only Light Scouts, Scouts, and Corvettes leave crash sites afaik.

2) Did the end of battle say that it was destroyed or crashed?

Destroyed enemy ships do not leave crash sites. Try causing less damage.

[Gorlom]

3 reasons a ship wouldn't cause a crashsite.

1) You've already covered this one as you said you shot them down all over land. (Btw is it over North America? some people had some bugs there where land counted as water I think). UFOs shot down over water dont leave crashsites-

2) Fighters, Heavy fighters and Bombers don't leave crashsites. See Icevamps list for UFOs you can shoot down without automatically destroying.

3) If you deal damage equal to 100-119% of a UFOs hit points most UFOs will crash. If you deal 120% or more of their total hitpoints as damage the UFOs will be destroyed. As Icevamp says try to dea a bit les damage.

[Chris]

Sending one single fighter against a Light Scout should allow you to shoot it down. I might increase the overdamage percentage a bit because people do seem to be having a bit of trouble with it.

[s300pmu1]

Furthermore how did you manage to get a problem with number 3? Did you accidentally press the "TGL RF" button and then not switch it back? Or are you playing an older version then the one available on the kickstarter page?

Pressing the TGL RF button should reduce the buildings to the current camera level makeing it uneccesary to move a soldier inside the building to be able to see aliens behind it.

You do secure it as long as you win in either way, it's just that you melt it down for scraps (alloys, powercores, navigational instruments etc.) curently. I'm not sure if you will acctually do anything else with it later on. What were you expecting would happen when you secure an UFO?

I'd like to thank everyone for giving detailed answers to my questions.

As for the securing UFO thing, the following issues make me believe something's wrong:

- at mission end screen, "UFOs secured" shows "0"

- I have no alien alloys or any such thing in my stores having successfully completed over 10 ground missions

- no new research items have become available since downing the first UFO

I assume it may be the old build, will try a newer one once I have time for that.

[IceVamp]

Yes, you definitely need to get the latest build. It's what we all use as a basis for all our discussions and our answers to problems!