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Swarmer

Bigger Fonts in Xenonauts 2

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Please consider that many people complained for years complained about the small font sizes in Xenonauts and many

indicated that this is reason not to buy the game. Consider that your program attracts older gamers who played already

Xcom. And for them the small fonts of Xenonauts are a pain. And, yes, we play on laptops, because we sit in planes,

on airport gates and hotel rooms on business trips. It is a shame that this "feature request" for scalable, better readable,

larger fonts was disregarded for years in the development of Xenonauts.

 

Other wishes along that line:

- Audio (reading those texts)

- Playing a well-readable Xenonauts-2 on a large iPadPro would be wonderful for me !

 

Otherwise, thanks for the nice game. I see Xenonauts as a test case and learning project towards a great

Xenonauts-2 which should try to omit all the mistakes of the first one.

 

Off topic, some other nice things would be:

- Being able to shoot or at least throw a grenade when standing besides an open door.

- Being able to rotate the map.

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1 hour ago, Swarmer said:

Please consider that many people complained for years complained about the small font sizes in Xenonauts and many

indicated that this is reason not to buy the game. Consider that your program attracts older gamers who played already

Xcom. And for them the small fonts of Xenonauts are a pain. And, yes, we play on laptops, because we sit in planes,

on airport gates and hotel rooms on business trips. It is a shame that this "feature request" for scalable, better readable,

larger fonts was disregarded for years in the development of Xenonauts.

Not to mention these tini tiny scrollbar buttons which are practically invisible :D.

1 hour ago, Swarmer said:

Otherwise, thanks for the nice game. I see Xenonauts as a test case and learning project towards a great

Xenonauts-2 which should try to omit all the mistakes of the first one.

You are optimistic :).

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3 hours ago, Swarmer said:

Please consider that many people complained for years complained about the small font sizes in Xenonauts and many

indicated that this is reason not to buy the game. Consider that your program attracts older gamers who played already

Xcom. And for them the small fonts of Xenonauts are a pain. And, yes, we play on laptops, because we sit in planes,

on airport gates and hotel rooms on business trips. It is a shame that this "feature request" for scalable, better readable,

larger fonts was disregarded for years in the development of Xenonauts.

 

Other wishes along that line:

- Audio (reading those texts)

- Playing a well-readable Xenonauts-2 on a large iPadPro would be wonderful for me !

 

Otherwise, thanks for the nice game. I see Xenonauts as a test case and learning project towards a great

Xenonauts-2 which should try to omit all the mistakes of the first one.

 

Off topic, some other nice things would be:

- Being able to shoot or at least throw a grenade when standing besides an open door.

- Being able to rotate the map.

Small fonts is a problem for me also.  I'm 71 and retired and have bad eyes (5 surgeries so far).  I use a large monitor (32inches) so that helps but the fonts are still small in my chosen resolution.

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Great! I hope I will paying such games too when I turn 71 !!! Congrats for keeping up-to-date so well, my

parents are several years younger than you and wouldn't touch a computer game.

 

I hope Goldhawk Interactive realizes that there are games that are played across all ages, like this one.

My sons play them (16, 18), I play them (46) and Squaddie plays them with 71. What else can a company

wish for? If they do it right, they can build up a good and diverse fan base. But they should listen more to their

fan base, as the size complaints were present in the bulletin boards for many, many years. Just they were ignored.

And today, at least on the Steam (MacOS version) workshop pages, even the mod is not available (anymore) that

increased fonts to some extent.

 

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3 hours ago, Charon said:

Not to mention these tini tiny scrollbar buttons which are practically invisible :D.

You are optimistic :).

 

Yes, you are right, they are also ridiculous. At least on my MacBook I can use vertical two-finger-slide

(I guess on Windows machines that would be mouse wheel) to browse up and down in those lists.

 

As said, those gestures and real point&click would work like a charm on a large iPadPro (and of course

on any other iPad and Android and Windows tablet). I am wondering, as there is a Linux version, why

there is no Android port? That would be a sort of killer app there, I guess.

 

Well, I guess, that is too optimistic to hope for that.

 

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3 minutes ago, Swarmer said:

Great! I hope I will paying such games too when I turn 71 !!! Congrats for keeping up-to-date so well, my

parents are several years younger than you and wouldn't touch a computer game.

 

I hope Goldhawk Interactive realizes that there are games that are played across all ages, like this one.

My sons play them (16, 18), I play them (46) and Squaddie plays them with 71. What else can a company

wish for? If they do it right, they can build up a good and diverse fan base. But they should listen more to their

fan base, as the size complaints were present in the bulletin boards for many, many years. Just they were ignored.

And today, at least on the Steam (MacOS version) workshop pages, even the mod is not available (anymore) that

increased fonts to some extent.

 

Actually, makeing bigger fonts for people who need them is an hour job for a modder ... not everything can be made bigger, but most things.

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1 minute ago, Swarmer said:

 

Yes, you are right, they are also ridiculous. At least on my MacBook I can use vertical two-finger-slide

(I guess on Windows machines that would be mouse wheel) to browse up and down in those lists.

 

As said, those gestures and real point&click would work like a charm on a large iPadPro (and of course

on any other iPad and Android and Windows tablet). I am wondering, as there is a Linux version, why

there is no Android port? That would be a sort of killer app there, I guess.

 

Well, I guess, that is too optimistic to hope for that.

 

Actually i think so too, porting this to an android platform would be THE KILLER. Its a turn based game so you have all teh time in teh world to make decisions. Heres a screenshot we just happened to make, tell me what you think:

223830_screenshots_2013-05-31_00004.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Charon said:

Actually, makeing bigger fonts for people who need them is an hour job for a modder ... not everything can be made bigger, but most things.

There was obviously a mod that increased font sizes, however it seems not available in Steam workshop (at least

not in MacOS, don't know if this makes a difference). However, as I can read in the internet from the creator of the

mod it is far from perfect, for example some texts were clipped/truncated. 

 

Actually I am not so much searching for a font size increase in Xenonauts, I was suggesting to Goldhawk to consider this

an issue when they go forward with Xenonauts 2. That should be a design aspect from the beginning. It may later help

them to even port their game more easily to other devices with other screen ratios and resolutions (e.g. tablets, consoles).

 

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3 hours ago, Charon said:

You are optimistic :).

Read Goldhawk's development diary / post-mortem. I think it shows that Chris is extremely well aware of the weak aspects of Xenonauts 1. At least I agree almost entirely with the list of weaknesses that he identifiers, and so am very optimistic about Goldhawk doing a better job with the sequel.

Plus there's the fact that many technical mistakes were made due to the absence of an experienced software lead, or even any kind of experienced dev in the early stages of development. The Xeno 2 team is much more like a traditional software development team, with an excellent developer at the helm.

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9 minutes ago, Charon said:

Actually i think so too, porting this to an android platform would be THE KILLER. Its a turn based game so you have all teh time in teh world to make decisions. Heres a screenshot we just happened to make, tell me what you think:

223830_screenshots_2013-05-31_00004.jpg

Looks interesting. I am not sure what I should exactly look for. Which mod is it?

 

Fonts appear a bit larger than Xenonauts on my screen. However, at least in the screenshot, some look still hardly

readable, for example the yellow-font list of soldiers properties on the upper left side (below the "Charlie -1")

 

Especially the top bar is a huge empty black bar, so there is much screen estate that can be invested into a 

better visible output without any loss.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Solver said:

Read Goldhawk's development diary / post-mortem. I think it shows that Chris is extremely well aware of the weak aspects of Xenonauts 1. At least I agree almost entirely with the list of weaknesses that he identifiers, and so am very optimistic about Goldhawk doing a better job with the sequel.

Plus there's the fact that many technical mistakes were made due to the absence of an experienced software lead, or even any kind of experienced dev in the early stages of development. The Xeno 2 team is much more like a traditional software development team, with an excellent developer at the helm.

Looking forward to that. Good to hear that they are aware of it.

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For the sake of completeness, here's what Chris wrote on the subject in his dev diary:

Quote

Another mistake was UI scaling – the game font becomes almost unreadable on small screens. I did not consider this as much as I should have when designing the UI (intended for a 1080p screen) and it caused a lot of complaints. Things could have been done to mitigate the problems had I planned them in advance, but by the time I realised my error it was again too late to do anything about it.

 

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3 minutes ago, Swarmer said:

Looks interesting. I am not sure what I should exactly look for. Which mod is it?

Its X-Division and its not available yet. This was not made for better readability but i thought the black background could make things better readable. Its just the earliest rough scatch of a, maybe, new UI. I just thought if the style allows it we could make some thigns better readable just so people, including me, could have less of an headache. Its not really a problem for the vanilla game but if you have 1100+ items to scroll through your eyes can need all teh help they can get.

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In the early 1970's I built my first computer in my kitchen (did not have a garage).  I had to program the OS all by myself because none existed back then.  And I only had a total of 8K of memory.  I used a tape deck to remember the code as memory got wiped (did not stay) when I turned off the computer.  After some time I learned machine language by doing the OS programming and learned how to "hack" into other computers remotely.  I was curious as to what other people thought was so secret they required passwords and "firewalls" to protect it.  Never stole anything just looked and satisfied my curiosity.  Although one time I spotted a company that paid it's employees based on race and sex.  White males were paid more for the same job even though some of the female and black employees were more productive.  I sent out an email (on the HR persons email) to all employees saying what each person was paid...several months later there was a news article on the EEO bring a lawsuit against the company for this practice..  I have always maintained an interest in computers...which might be an inherited trait since my dad helped build the USA first computer for the government.  Back then bugs were really BUGS.  Giant cockroaches (which can keep getting bigger and bigger as long as they have a food source) would short out the tubes.  So someone had to physically go into the computer and clean them out.

 

RIght now I'm more interested in playing games than in doing programming...I'm RETIRED now.  So it's been years since I'm done any serious programming.

Edited by Larry Burstyn

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2 hours ago, Larry Burstyn said:

In the early 1970's I built my first computer in my kitchen (did not have a garage).  I had to program the OS all by myself because none existed back then.  And I only had a total of 8K of memory.  I used a tape deck to remember the code as memory got wiped (did not stay) when I turned off the computer.  After some time I learned machine language by doing the OS programming and learned how to "hack" into other computers remotely.  I was curious as to what other people thought was so secret they required passwords and "firewalls" to protect it.  Never stole anything just looked and satisfied my curiosity.  Although one time I spotted a company that paid it's employees based on race and sex.  White males were paid more for the same job even though some of the female and black employees were more productive.  I sent out an email (on the HR persons email) to all employees saying what each person was paid...several months later there was a news article on the EEO bring a lawsuit against the company for this practice..  I have always maintained an interest in computers...which might be an inherited trait since my dad helped build the USA first computer for the government.  Back then bugs were really BUGS.  Giant cockroaches (which can keep getting bigger and bigger as long as they have a food source) would short out the tubes.  So someone had to physically go into the computer and clean them out.

 

RIght now I'm more interested in playing games than in doing programming...I'm RETIRED now.  So it's been years since I'm done any serious programming.

Nice. Well, playing games, writing programs, hacking around, inventing things, all of the same: Curiosity.

Can totally understand.

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17 minutes ago, Larry Burstyn said:

Sorry, my eyes are not too good and I miss seeing obvious things somtimes (25% loss of vision--it was more before the surgeries).  I did not notice where to upload bug fixes or where known ones are listed.  As far as the mod manager I don't know what the first six in your list are?  I also did not notice that you did not have listed the three you said no to above.  Will correct.  So that's what DSB means.

I think a good old fashioned inbuilt magnifying glass would help. Something XCE could do ?

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Just turned on the game for the first time and ran for a magnifying glass. My eyes are normal but this font size is a pain in the neck. It seems to me that this problem would have been obvious from the beginning to the designers.  Game designers many times confuse me. I am not a designer obviously, but I sometimes wonder how they think. Anyway I have my magnifier and am off to what I hope is a great game. Let you all know. 

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I see 2 solution for this problem.

  1. An ingame, build in, magnifier glass with adjustable levels and size, to b activated or deactivated by the press of a button ( best solution )
  2.  Someone has to sit down and make everything bigger. Fonts are the most obvious ones but there can be more

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The main candidates for increased fonts would be manufacture, research and storeroom screens, I guess? Those are the ones with most text items.

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11 minutes ago, Solver said:

The main candidates for increased fonts would be manufacture, research and storeroom screens, I guess? Those are the ones with most text items.

I wouldnt go after what "most" people need, if you cant read what UFO you are engaging its definitely a drawback and thats not the most text you will find to read in the game and its still very important.

Windows 7 format magnifying glass.

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That's impossible though, but we could consider something like fixing the font sizes in places like the storage screen. Not perfect, and it won't look great, but it should still be better than the current situation for players with smaller screens / worse eyesight.

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@Draku

Do you have a good general idea of what parts need to be changed in Lua for which screens to get bigger fonts? Some, like the storage screen, I can manage. But in the Workshop screen for instance, I can get anything except the actual item list to be bigger.

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14 hours ago, Solver said:

@Draku

Do you have a good general idea of what parts need to be changed in Lua for which screens to get bigger fonts? Some, like the storage screen, I can manage. But in the Workshop screen for instance, I can get anything except the actual item list to be bigger.

Those items lists are ListControl activegroups and activeworks, but it doen't read my changes to font or fontScale, it can be hard-coded. Same goes for researchview.lua I believe.

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Ah yes, I was trying to change them, too, and it ignores me. No hardcoding that I can see though, perhaps the engine somehow hates changing font in ListControls? That would be unfortunate if those items cannot be changed, since I've had decent success with some others.

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Perhaps it hates those lists specifically because I can change successfully fontScale for ListControl "roster" in personnelview.lua

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