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llunak

Xenonauts: Community Edition 0.32 HF1

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Update for version 0.32 of Xenonauts: Community Edition has been released as 0.32 HF1.


Installation (Steam users):

  • Steam will be automatically updated (may take a while until the update is available).
  • IMPORTANT: The 0.32 version on Steam is incomplete and broken. It is recommended not to use it until Steam updates to 0.32 HF1. Alternatively, it is possible to temporarily fix the game by doing manual installation the way as other users do.

Installation (other users):

  • If you already have 0.32 installed, use "Modding Tools" in the game launcher to install the base X:CE mod. There are no changes to the settings or balance mods, so after updating the base mod it is enough to restart the game.
  • Otherwise, follow installation steps from the 0.32 announcement, only use 0.32 HF1's base mod instead of 0.32's .

Changes summary:

  • Maximum TU value is now based on normal (non-overburdened) TU available. This in particular means that actions using percentage TU costs such as shooting or reaction fire score are now affected by being overburdened (unlike previously when their relative cost was the same).
  • Fix aliens not seeing soldiers right after loading a ground combat save.
  • Avoid a possible crash after attacking UFO with Fury.
  • Fix a possible hang involving Reapers attacks.

For further details, see the 0.32 release annoucement.

Edited by llunak

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Changes summary:

Maximum TU value is no longer affected by the soldier being overburdened. This in particular means that actions using percentage TU costs such as shooting or reaction fire score are now affected by being overburdened (unlike previously when their relative cost was the same).

could you please elaborate more on this one?.

With this XCE 32 HF1, my soldier with predator armour (the strength and TU stats both are 100) cannot shoot the singularity cannon, it need 78 TUs to shoot, while it only got 69 TUs left for carrying the cannon , where before it only need 54 TUs.

The only way to shoot with this weapon is to drop it, "End Turn" and pick it up, with this my soldier got 88 TUs left ( 100-12 TUs for the movement cost) to shoot (78 TUs). but after the next turn the TUs left got back to 69 TUs, so if i want to shoot, i have to repeat this step. Is it a bug or by design?.

Thanks in advance.

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To be honest, i am against this.. if you are overburden your soldier, he should shot less too because he would lose time to aim and shotting.. think about firing a cannon as a simple guy.. it would be different from arnold...

The cannon should have less weight anyway.. at least it would be useful at limit with predator armour..

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I've slightly adjusted the maximum TU + overburden change description to hopefully make it more clear. I will have a look at the singularity cannon, it's indeed a bug if it is so heavy that it cannot be fired now.

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I personally dislike the new TU system.

Makes the game more micro-intensive in the inventory screen as some classes e.g heavy; will need no encumbrance to fire.

I mean the aliens A.I is already better AND they have better TU's before (does this new TU thing even affect them?)

At lesat make the TU thing a option instead of enforcing it on everyone ;(

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Guest

Agree also, it does not benefit my game experience in this flavour, on the contrary. If the TU system must change I would prefer it to be something that does not make inventory shuffling more penalized than now. I think the game is already hard enough as it is :)

IS the change to TU calculations carried out in code or in modable files?

Or can this change be rolled back to X:CE 0.33? It has a significant impact on gameplay in each turn of ground combat, and I would really like to use the many improvements of 0.32 without using this last minute Change to the gameplay fundamentals.

Edited by pistolhamster

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I'm not convinced by weight-TU penalty change myself either. Perhaps this could be made a toggle? (I'm happy to do this myself).

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A toggle would be fine of course! Also would allow us to play with it for a while and easily compare it to the old style of TU and weight penalty.

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I'm not convinced by weight-TU penalty change myself either. Perhaps this could be made a toggle? (I'm happy to do this myself).

Yes please.

It's so hard to train strength now without being seriously handi-capped in ground fights. Putting on any armor bar sentinel gives the alien side too much advantage as they can now overpower you with their higher mobility etc.

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At least if the TU changes are to stay, there will need to be a rework of the TU system in terms of how much is needed to fire burst etc. It could be ( X percentage + set TU) per firing mode so that elite troops can fire more often)

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I'm not convinced by weight-TU penalty change myself either. Perhaps this could be made a toggle? (I'm happy to do this myself).

The "change" is an obvious bugfix (well, at least I thought it was obvious). And I've already added an option for it, because apparently we need to have options even for bugfixes, but I'm not rushing to make a release just in order to catter to the playstyle that apparently thinks the point is in using as many flaws as possible (I can manage to equip most soldiers with 2 weapons and some extras without them getting overloaded, so I don't think it's so hard to get soldiers at least somewhat reasonably equiped, so what other reason would there be for such an option? If you think the problem is that it is too hard to equip soldiers because of weight limits, complain about the actual problem.).

IOW, why does nobody complain overburdened soldiers get to run less, but it's a problem if they get to shoot less?

I mean the aliens A.I is already better AND they have better TU's before (does this new TU thing even affect them?)

Of course it does (not). Aliens do not go into battles ill-equipped.

so that elite troops can fire more often

Been there, tried that, didn't make the final cut.

Edited by llunak

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"IOW, why does nobody complain overburdened soldiers get to run less, but it's a problem if they get to shoot less?"

-because it drastically reduces the number of tactical options available when your options to shoot are limited. Sorry cant burst fire because I am carrying a pistol in my backpack lol.

What bugfix? The whole TU system was based on overburdening affecting movement only. Now that it affects firing options, the whole dynamic of ground combat has changed.

It is clearly not obvious as the past few comments have been unsupportive of the recent change.

It almost sounds like if the recent change was to cater to your style of play.

At the end of the day, the TU system is not just about overburdening. It affects firing options, mobility, no. of items you can carry.

IMO in the attempt to fix this so called bug, there was not enough consideration into the effects on the above issues.

TU's is not just about the amount of items you can/cannot carry.

And I also don't see the option to undo the TU change.

Kindest regards,

Rice

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Hi Hi Guys, I´m playing Xenonauts since a while. First with the Orignal, then with X:CE. Both without Mods to come in. Then I tried the XNT-Mod and now I play the X-Devision Mod with X:CE 0.32. And I don´t have a problem with my TU´s and the carrying weight.

Like Rice said, it´s the playstyle of the Gamer. If you take more a Soldier can carry, you can´t win. But if you train your Soldiers to get more and more strengh and make a plan what you wanna use on his Skill (example Heavy Soldier, Shield) so you can win every Mission. The only thing you have to watch is the extra weight of the Armor.

If you plan this and chance the Gamestyle your life and espc. Xenonauts is easy.

To the Armors I have to say, that I´m only testet the Wolf and the Flying Wolf Armor with the X-Devion Mod, full next Gen Armors I haven´t seen yet in the Mod. So I can´t say anything to the Problem VapeMat have with Predator Armor.

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IOW, why does nobody complain overburdened soldiers get to run less, but it's a problem if they get to shoot less?

Can't speak for anyone else but here's my reasoning:

1) Making an appeal to 'reality': I'm unconvinced by the idea that carrying a heavier load should reduce rate of fire or detract from a soldier's ability to take a more accurate shot. To use an extreme example, under the new system it wouldn't require a soldier to be vastly overburdened for them to be utterly unable to fire a heavy weapon (e.g. machine gun). That makes no sense to me at all.

2) The only argument I can think of to counter point 1) is that a heavier load might reduce reaction time or inhibit movement such that it takes longer to aim or switch to a new target. However, I'm not sure that argument is consistent with the %TU system for shooting which clearly divorced rate of fire from max TUs.

3) In any case, I'm not sure that it makes for better gameplay. Using the vanilla system, overburdening is a reasonable trade-off: carrying more stuff = being able to move less. Using the revised system, the cost for overburdening is much greater due as a result of RoF thresholds: even losing a few TUs can make the difference between being able to fire two or three shots in a turn, while losing a few more could block shooting altogether (e.g. in the instance of heavy weapons). As such, under the new system I think there's almost no circumstances under which I would overburden a soldier as the cost is too high.

What my objection most certainly isn't about is absolute carrying limit. Honestly, I dislike the way vanilla handles maximum carry limit as I think it is far too high. Indeed, I've been playing around with a mod that reduces the maximum carry limit such that you can only equip soldiers with the very basics without them being overburdened, with the consequence that you need to be willing to trade mobility for equipment. However, the new overburdened system more-or-less kills that idea, since the cost of being overburdened is too high for the extra equipment to be worthwhile due to its effect on RoF.

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If nothing else, this change means that some people (me included) will have to change their hiring and possibly equipment criteria.

Me, I've made a habit to hire recruits with high TUs, while other stats are a secondary concern. Give the active folks the best armor I can and if they're overburdened with less than 50 TUs, take away grenades or medkit until they get above 50 or don't have more than their gun and 2 reloads (whichever happens first, the latter being common enough with rookies in Wolf Armour, ending up at 47-49 TU). That way they'll still be armoured enough to not be one-shotted (every time), and mobile enough to get stuff done in a timely manner. This way they can contribute right on the frontline, which tends to make for good training in most skills.

With the change, the main hiring stat will have to be strength, with TUs being secondary and other skills tertiary. Depending on what kind of strength you can get from the rookies, downgrading the armour may have to happen more often, which means strength training gets nerfed and the veterans may have to take over the spotter roles while the rookies in the weak armour stay back a bit and take longer-range shots. And weak Assault Rookies are just gonna have to rely on not getting shot at (or be Shield Rookies instead ?)

Gonna have to see how that turns out in a new game (the one I started last week has the TU-recruiting, was saved in the middle of a mission and seems to not agree with the last update).

Of course, I have a habit of only using soldiers from 4 classes: Sniper, Heavy, Assault and Rifleman. Maybe this is a way to get more use out of the other classes (like Shield or Scout)?

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1) Making an appeal to 'reality': I'm unconvinced by the idea that carrying a heavier load should reduce rate of fire or detract from a soldier's ability to take a more accurate shot. To use an extreme example, under the new system it wouldn't require a soldier to be vastly overburdened for them to be utterly unable to fire a heavy weapon (e.g. machine gun). That makes no sense to me at all.

Do you know biathlon? It is significantly harder to do any decent shooting when one is tired (or otherwise physically affected). So I think realism actually supports my way.

2) The only argument I can think of to counter point 1) is that a heavier load might reduce reaction time or inhibit movement such that it takes longer to aim or switch to a new target. However, I'm not sure that argument is consistent with the %TU system for shooting which clearly divorced rate of fire from max TUs.

Being overburdened makes a soldier move less. Shooting is just a different kind of movement. It doesn't quite make sense that a soldier wouldn't be able to perform as well as the rest of the squad while running, but suddenly the burden would have no effect on other actions.

And the %TU system was introduced just a couple of months before final version. It may that the effect of the change on overburden wasn't simply considered.

3) In any case, I'm not sure that it makes for better gameplay. Using the vanilla system, overburdening is a reasonable trade-off: carrying more stuff = being able to move less. Using the revised system, the cost for overburdening is much greater due as a result of RoF thresholds: even losing a few TUs can make the difference between being able to fire two or three shots in a turn, while losing a few more could block shooting altogether (e.g. in the instance of heavy weapons). As such, under the new system I think there's almost no circumstances under which I would overburden a soldier as the cost is too high.

First of all, I think it can be argued that the normal state is that soldiers are not overburdened (and so this change shouldn't really have that much of an impact on "normal" play). A soldier with 50 STR, 20 points below the recoil threshold and thus somebody not very suited for the role, can carry a machine gun, be in Wolf Armour, and be exactly on the capacity limit.

And even if one does overload a soldier, such as this 50 STR one, adding one extra ammo, 4kg more, still keeps the soldier capable of firing, even if barely. And that is a soldier that shouldn't be a Heavy. As such, I'm not buying this argument, unless somebody actually has a specific example of how this hampers reasonable play (I don't think I'm going to revert a fix just because somebody can't do proper hiring, role assignment and equipping).

Maybe the TUs available shouldn't drop off so rapidly, but the soldier is overburdened, and so should suffer a penalty. Which brings me to my final point: Overburden affecting only movement is actually not much of a penalty for it, which is probably why so many people do it. It mostly slows down the parts of GC without firefights, but it doesn't have that much of an impact on firefights(*), which are the important part of GC. Somebody patient enough to advance really slowly could play as if (non-extreme) overburden didn't matter.

(*) Meaning, if the player is capable of at least basic tactics. It will indeed have quite a large impact on cases of having a single soldier suddenly in dire need of help getting there quickly.

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partially I'm with Kabill here - if taking an extra grenade results in 2 bursts instead of 3 it's simply bad for gameplay.

"realism" is also not my priority, but I can give my 2 cents on the biathlon example. A tired soldier still shoots at the same speed but less accurately. So if you think current penalty for extra weight is not enough, maybe better to reduce the accuracy instead of the number of shots.

...and I agree - just put in a toggle here

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I could swear we discussed this issue with Chris when the %TU system was implemented, so I'm pretty sure the system was how Chris wanted it. There's a looong thread about it somewhere.

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I could swear we discussed this issue with Chris when the %TU system was implemented, so I'm pretty sure the system was how Chris wanted it. There's a looong thread about it somewhere.

Skitso has a good point there.

Why fix it if it ain't broke. I don't see many people complaining about the 1.5 TU system.

Why not justput a toggle on/off option for this TU thing?

Is it not clear that the majority of posters here have ambivalent or negative perceptions of the new TU system?

If its a so called "community edition" should there not be consultation with the Xenonaut player base before making such a big change?

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I also agree with Podbelski's point in that pulling a trigger is not a overly strenuous task while over-encumbered.

As even if I carry something past my personal capacity, even a little, I will still be able to shoot, although accuracy would suffer as a result of my balance being off and not being able to move as fast -the abstraction being reduced TU's.

And also to add my piece, xenonauts do have recruits from military sectors that demand high standards and thus xenonauts are not the average joe but humanities more specialised personal with hopefully good training especially seeing as one gets them from Spetnaz and navy SEAL branches.

So I do believe that the compromise of a toggle would be the most beneficial option as one can have the "realism" experience towards one's preferred preference.

Edited by Raywalker

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You are stuck at realism so much. I think it's a choise and with a 0 1 trigger everybody will be happy.

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