Sibillians overpowered.

[Chthon]

If a soldier was behind full cover, then they should be fine as there won't actually be any LoS. Indeed, that would be the trick in a LoS-based psionic system: stay out of LoS!

LoS and Line of Fire are two different designations in this game. Many full cover objects still allow sight, as well as many objects that probably should block sight.

I encounter LoS bugs all the time, but at least I'm not able to shoot using them, and neither can the aliens.

edit: Also, I concur that psionics should be limited like in the original. It cannot affect any target that is not seen by at least one alien.

[kabill]

LoS and Line of Fire are two different designations in this game. Many full cover objects still allow sight, as well as many objects that probably should block sight.

Yes, actually, you're right. Although there's still plenty of things you can use to break LoS as well. (For what it's worth, I don't think it's a bug but intentional as a means of not having certain props block sight to walls and things their placed behind.)

edit: Also, I concur that psionics should be limited like in the original. It cannot affect any target that is not seen by at least one alien.

The OG system was actually a lot closer to the current Xenonauts system than that. The AI only needed sight on any single one of your units to be able to target anyone in your squad. Moreover, because of the alien 'intelligence' system, your units could count as being spotted even on turns where they weren't. And then there's the 20 turn reveal rule, which meant that all your soldiers were revealed to the AI after 20 game turns.

In practice, then, the AI could target you with psionic attacks almost whenever it wanted. Not that this is necessarily a good thing though. I do think a squad-sight system for psionics would work pretty well (*cough* Solver! *cough*).

[silencer]

X-COM Apocalypse had LoS PSI-Attack - and also attribute PSI-Energy which was a blocking mechanic to not to overspam the PSI attacks. It was rubbish in TB, because either a bug or intended, it didn't refresh victims TU's when MC'ed. On RT battle it was quite effective, but due to PSI Energy consumption it wasn't that spamable, unless player had raided enough Psiclones - that would refresh psi-energy.

I find that PSI in X-COM Apocalypse was the best implementation. Also I am playing OpenXcom with LoS PSI. Sectoid encounters aren't that bad. There is no spam of PSI attack, but occasionally someone is attacked. Probably only Etherals could prove difficult since every Etheral could PSI attack.

Edited July 5, 2014 by silencer

[Chthon]

Yes, actually, you're right. Although there's still plenty of things you can use to break LoS as well. (For what it's worth, I don't think it's a bug but intentional as a means of not having certain props block sight to walls and things their placed behind.)

Not talking props man. Complete walls, floors, UFO hulls. Stuff that should completely conceal the enemy.

[Vindhjaerta]

The shield provides a chance of blocking a shot, just like any other cover, it's possible that a shot will get past. There's also the option to blast the doors down with rockets or C4, then shoot the sebs down from a distance. Also, if a mission is too difficult then you can just retreat, that's a choice between losing x soldiers to finish or giving up and keeping your units intact.

Also, I suggest you ask questions before blaming the devs for bad design when you're having difficulty with a portion of the game. Rants are fine, but be mature enough to take responsibility for your own failures, please.

I have now tried a few more strategies and it seems that rocket launchers is a must in any future missions. I was simply not prepared enough for this particular situation.

I still think the Sebillians are way overpowered though. And yes, it -is- the devs fault. They made the game after all, right? Not only are Sebillians insanely strong in the early to mid game (see previously listed points, especially the smoke immunity), they also have the company of Reapers. Place one soldier too close to a corner, just one little square, and the soldier might be gone next turn. I wonder why the devs thought that particular combo was a bright idea.

I've now become so extremely paranoid on Sebillian maps that I bring extra rockets with me and completely level any tight spaces that I even suspect a Reaper might hide in.

I must add though that these problems mostly show up during month 2-3, when you focus on air supremacy in your first two radar covered areas and simply do not have the economy to upgrade your troops (Wolf armor helps a lot, same with High TU-soldiers equipped with laser shotguns). After this period have passed and I have fully equipped soldiers (and the strength/TU:s to use them) things go slightly better.

And to be honest, I do find the challenge immensly fun. As long as there is a solution for every problem (it just took me a while to figure out the rocket launcher solution, which made me a bit frustrated since before that I couldn't see how it was possible to beat the Sebillian choke point without smoke)

[FireStorm1010]

Ok, seriously.... what the hell was the devs thinking?

I'm trying to assault a landed corvette full of Sebillians right now. I have Wolf Armor and laser weapons, which considering it's my 4th or so corvette should be what I'm supposed to have at this point in the game (so not behind in the weapons department as far as I know).

If I walk in with 1-2 guys with shields, all 3 doors open and 4-5 Sebillians burst fire me (followed by a normal shot) and my guys get seriously injured or killed immediately. I get close with with one guy every other try or so, but then he's suddenly isolated against several Sebillians... and naturally dies the turn after.

If I try to rush all the way up to the doors with all my guys in an attempt to rush them and focus fire, they open the doors and throw a grenade, killing 80% of my guys. I never have enough TU:s to get all the way from the entrance to the 3 doors and still have AP left to kill stuff (and take cover afterwards). Bunching several guys together is a guaranteed grenade, so that tactic is definitely not possible.

I can't lure them out by say, baiting with a shield guy, since the sebs ai makes them camp and hit&run.

If I throw smoke grenades though, It is possible to get some cover up to the doors and then blitz them..... OH WAIT... that doesn't work either

Seriously devs, how could you give one single enemy the most hp, regen, sneaky ai and immunity to smoke? It's like you hate tactics or something -.- The one single item that can be used to compensate for a bad tactical situation does not work against the strongest enemy in the game....

I'd really like to know what I'm supposed to do in this situation. The research says that Sebillians are strong in close quarters, but weak at range... but in a UFO (which you will face full of Sebillians at many points in the game) their only weakness is nullified. And again, smoke doesn't work against them.

I'm thinking of reloading the game and equip myself with some rocket launchers. Will they work against the 3 doors? That's the only tactic I can think of right now, but I have no idea if it will work. If it doesn't, I really don't know how I could possibly get up to those doors without loosing my whole squad.

Devs, do something about the Sebillians, they are waaaay overpowered right now.

Hmm im playing on veteran , and while not easy, they are by all means manageable.The corvettes i usually just rush with laser carbines on the sides, and if some are hiding in back far away, i use a scatter laser fire, poping out of the door then hiding back.

Seems to work pretty well. Never had problems with sebs grenading my guys, weird.

I had and have some problems with landing crafts. The lower side i finally came to manage by noticing the entrance is wide enough for a tank to enter:) , so im just no diddling with rockets and supression as before but just unleashing tanked hell on them.

The upper part tough is still very hard for me, there are lawys 3-4 aliens camping in such a way that you must commit to your attack and taking 3 sebs in a single rush attack often is impossible for me. I often loose a guy there(tough its still regular fire, i think i had seen aliens use grenades maybe 3 times total). Atm i have an idea to try the just researched double assualt shields, hope it might help.

[Chthon]

Hmm im playing on veteran , and while not easy, they are by all means manageable.The corvettes i usually just rush with laser carbines on the sides, and if some are hiding in back far away, i use a scatter laser fire, poping out of the door then hiding back.

Seems to work pretty well. Never had problems with sebs grenading my guys, weird.

I had and have some problems with landing crafts. The lower side i finally came to manage by noticing the entrance is wide enough for a tank to enter:) , so im just no diddling with rockets and supression as before but just unleashing tanked hell on them.

The upper part tough is still very hard for me, there are lawys 3-4 aliens camping in such a way that you must commit to your attack. I often loose a guy there(tough its still regular fire, i think i had seen aliens use grenades maybe 3 times total). Atm i have an idea to try the just researched double assualt shields, hope it might help.

If you are only fighting medium craft, you have not encountered the super tough armored versions yet. Having not done so you might want to hold your opinion of them till later. Early Sebilians by far are not the issue. It is the super versions of these that we take umbrage against.

Plus, in my first game, I lucked out and only saw one reaper for 6 months. All the others, including my first autopsy, died in the crash.

[FireStorm1010]

If you are only fighting medium craft, you have not encountered the super tough armored versions yet. Having not done so you might want to hold your opinion of them till later. Early Sebilians by far are not the issue. It is the super versions of these that we take umbrage against.

Plus, in my first game, I lucked out and only saw one reaper for 6 months. All the others, including my first autopsy, died in the crash.

Ah might be. I recenlty met some new blue andron version + medium scouts, and these guys really scared me. On other hand i hope i will soon research some new armors + plasma, i had this wolf for ages and i researched armor plating + mass of other stuff, so hopefulyl it will balance out.

[kabill]

If you are only fighting medium craft, you have not encountered the super tough armored versions yet. Having not done so you might want to hold your opinion of them till later. Early Sebilians by far are not the issue. It is the super versions of these that we take umbrage against.

In fairness, the poster being replied to explicitly said that it was a Corvette that was being fought in. Giving opinions on how to deal with Sebs in a Corvette seems pretty legit when that's what the problem was!

[Chthon]

In fairness, the poster being replied to explicitly said that it was a Corvette that was being fought in. Giving opinions on how to deal with Sebs in a Corvette seems pretty legit when that's what the problem was!

True, my bad. All of my complaints have been the very high level Sebilians who can take and regenerate a hundred damage a turn. All I can say for the early ones is, you can deal with them still with bullet weapons at that point. Get a bigger Sky-bus for more troops if needed, lay down the dps. Work on your aim so you hit more often.

If they have cover, I have recently discovered C4. It works wonders for that, though be warned, it will destroy UFO power sources, and those might be linked. Last time I threw one upgraded with alenium into a scout, the forward AND backward compartments all exploded completely, nearly killing everything inside... oops. There went about 20k in profit and all the alloys/alenium I was going to harvest.

In short, corner them. Do not take cover too close to them. Make sure you have the better cover. Deny them theirs. Concentrate fire on one at a time. Do this and the fight will be yours.

[Orphan]

FWIW, even on "Normal" difficulty, the armored Sebillians in corvettes can regen health at a ridiculous rate. On a single turn, I had one live through two direct impacts with Alenium Rockets, 4-5 impacts from the LMG, 1 hit with a sniper rifle, plus an incendiary grenade I picked up in a mod at some point. Then he stood up, ran through the flames, and killed my sniper with a plasma blast before ducking behind cover. I thought my game was bugged, and reloaded at least six times before he would die.

[Dranak]

Maybe I'm weird, but in my Veteran playthrough Sebs are actually my race of choice for Carrier farming. No psionics, and Reapers are generally less threatening than Harridians (although their worst case scenario is worse). They die fast enough the regen normally isn't a factor there, although I may feel differently on Insane.

[Kiel]

Nah. Once you get close enough with plasma shotgun and enough time units for two snap shots - nothing can survive that (if you have like 80% hit).

What I do during command room assault is enter the room with the shield guy, collect reaction shots from all the aliens inside, move in the rest of my crew and flashbang everything. Do not forget about the cover. Next turn I have enough TU to point blank everyone inside. This tactics works like a charm if aliens have plasma cannons aka plasma bazooka.

Last time there were 4 Sibillian elites with plasma cannons and one officer with heavy plasma. Next turn after flashbang show they all were dead. Same tactics works against Harridans as they have no TU to fire their sniper rifles. Casseans are a bit of an issue as they mostly have elites in the command room and elites always carry assault rifles, which can deal terrible damage even to wolf-equipped soldier.

As for the enemy of choice I'd go with... Androns, I guess. Sebs are ok once reapers are dead. Cas are terrible, me no liek them.

[momerathe]

I just wish they wouldn't hide in cupboards so often.