Smoke dissipation

[MortuusSum]

I use smoke grenades a lot, and I've found myself wishing they lasted longer, mostly because I think they should have a tactical use beyond "shit I left that guy out of cover, better drop some smoke on him". I know out how to change it, but before I go dicking around under the hood I figured I'd ask why it disappears so fast now, in case it's for balance reasons. So, why do smoke grenades currently have a 75% dissipation chance? Was it ever different from how it was now? What kind of effect did that have on their use and balance?

[kabill]

I assume it's simply to increase the number of smoke grenades needed per mission. The longer they last, the more you get out of a single grenade.

That said, their current rate of dissipation means that they don't tend to hinder you on the turn after they've been deployed. Arguable, making the smoke last longer would be worse, since you'd still be blocked by your own smoke next turn.

Best bet, though, is to change it and do a few missions with the change. I think that's likely to give a better impression.

[Max_Caine]

Smoke dissapation rates have fluctuated heavily throughout development. There have been lines drawn over this issue, and since the last change there haven't been (IIRC) any complaints over them, so they've stuck as they are.

[Solver]

Smoke does have a very good tactical use now, used at the beginning of your turn, not just as a last-ditch protective effort. Specifically, throw a smoke grenade when you expect reaction fire. Especially useful when attacking Corvette or larger UFOs, and alien bases, where there are unavoidably some corners where you have to expose yourself. Also nice to cross open spaces on desert or arctic maps that may otherwise get too exposed.

[Max_Caine]

Remember when smoke blocked all LOS? *sigh* happy days...

[kabill]

Remember when smoke blocked all LOS? *sigh* happy days...

I wonder, with all the recent AI changes, whether the AI might be better equipped to handle that now? Might be worth an experiment some time.

[Sentelin]

Heh back in days you throw grenade alien freeze in place gazing at the smoke and you just open fire from the other side of smoke ... yeah I miss that.

[ventuswings]

I wonder, with all the recent AI changes, whether the AI might be better equipped to handle that now? Might be worth an experiment some time.

Wouldn't work. Current AI will not even think of 'mass grenaded spam or force-fire through the 0% chance smoke to suppress the aliens' tactics which exactly were the problem on that mechanic. At current accuracy reduction system, aliens at least know you are there within the smoke which need to be responded against. With the sight block, I don't think they consider the possible presence of unit on their calculations.

[kabill]

Wouldn't work. Current AI will not even think of 'mass grenaded spam or force-fire through the 0% chance smoke to suppress the aliens' tactics which exactly were the problem on that mechanic. At current accuracy reduction system, aliens at least know you are there within the smoke which need to be responded against. With the sight block, I don't think they consider the possible presence of unit on their calculations.

You're quite possibly right. But I think experimenting with it would be a better way of finding out.

For what it's worth, the AI can't really cope with smoke now, either. The minimum to-hit chance for firing basically means that, when faced with smoke, they can't retaliate. I've recently successfully dealt with command-room Androns merely by deploying smoke: their response was simply to wander around a bit on their turn and otherwise do nothing. Ironically, this was worse than the AI simply locking up like it does sometimes, since it was wasting TUs wandering around with utterly no purpose.

Thus, while I'm not confident that changing how smoke works will necessarily produce better results, I think it might be worth a try.

[Gauddlike]

It would be nice if the threshold didn't count the reduction from smoke I reckon.

The actual accuracy still would so aliens could still decide to fire on you they would just be more likely to miss.

[Mikhail Ragulin]

It would be nice if the threshold didn't count the reduction from smoke I reckon.

The actual accuracy still would so aliens could still decide to fire on you they would just be more likely to miss.

That makes sense, as they'd still suppress. Or something along the lines of if an enemy is within 5 tiles, then accuracy threshold is over-ruled, so long as it is above 0% (to exclude 100% cover situations).