Corvette + 2 Fighters

[nastydisease]

Hi Guys,

Its december and I'm suddenly faced by an invasion of Corvettes accompanied by 2x Fighters. Its too early for plasma weapons so the only solution I can find is to attack these waves twice. Come in with a Foxtrot and two Condors, have everything split up at the start and take the Fighter's out in two seperate combats, while the Foxtrot tries to sneak in and drop its payload on the Corvette and bail before getting into range. This is very risky and requires precise timing, also the best I can hope for is for both Condors to escape on half health. Then I need at least one more Foxtrot to come back and finish off the Corvette. I have Alenium missiles/torpedo's btw.

The games difficulty curve doesn't seem quite right, seeing as just about every fight leading up until this point has been a matter of clicking evade at the worst.

Am I missing something? Is there an easier way to be handling this stage of the game? I have just researched the Corsair but as it is I'm only just finishing fleshing out my third base with aircraft and dont have nearly enough Alenium (or cash on hand) to completely replace all my Condors. After doing nearly every crash site mission since the start I only have about 27 Alenium. Each Corsair requires 10.

Ideas or is the game's curve simply a bit out of whack here?

[kabill]

With 2 Condors and a Foxtrot you should be able to drop all three UFOs in one go.

Retreat the Foxtrot while the Condors kill the fighters with cannons. Once the fighters are dead, attack with Corvette with all your missiles.

It's tricky at first to get the hang of, but once you've gotten used to the more difficult air combat missions you'll be frustrated by how easy they are, not how hard they are!

[Chris]

Alternatively, just use two Foxtrots to knock out the Corvette and then make a break for it. You only have to destroy the main UFO.

[Irishguy117]

Alternatively, just use two Foxtrots to knock out the Corvette and then make a break for it. You only have to destroy the main UFO.

Reminds me of the good old days when Foxtrots had four torpedoes.

In this situation what I usually do is just hit and run, dump the torpedoes and run away to rearm. Foxtrot should be able to outrun the Fighters I believe.

How do you usually structure your Fighter wings? I usually have a pair of condors anchored by a foxtrot, and slowly phase out the condors for corsairs, and then replace the foxtrots with marauders and eventually transition to purely marauders.

[nastydisease]

With 2 Condors and a Foxtrot you should be able to drop all three UFOs in one go.

Retreat the Foxtrot while the Condors kill the fighters with cannons. Once the fighters are dead, attack with Corvette with all your missiles.

It's tricky at first to get the hang of, but once you've gotten used to the more difficult air combat missions you'll be frustrated by how easy they are, not how hard they are!

Number of problems, firstly even using their missiles on the fighters, the Condors lose half their health going head to head. Secondly it depends on the enemy Fighters going 1:1 on my Condors, which in turn depends on how the Aliens are oriented at the beginning of the mission. If the aliens are in a line side on its likely they'll all attack one Condor. Regardless everyone has to run in different directions at the start of the mission as the Corvettes range is now pretty well death for anything that goes in there.

Alternatively, just use two Foxtrots to knock out the Corvette and then make a break for it. You only have to destroy the main UFO.

Two Foxtrots was the first thing I tried, the fighters close the distance too quickly.

[nastydisease]

Alright, I tried again, it works if you head to head or kite and come around behind with a Fighter if the aliens all chase one aircraft. Problem at this stage is running out of fuel before everything can be killed.

Cheers

[Dead Dread]

remember you can choose which side your fighter evades to with Q & E. this makes a massive difference in manual air combat.

[kabill]

[video=youtube;w2xlpxXaqtQ]

Here's a video of me dealing with a Corvette and 2 Fighters. I didn't have a useful save, so I just fast-forwarded and did it with basic equipment (stingray/avalanche). If I'd have had alenium/laser weapons, I could have done it without any damage at all (I screwed up a little on the approach on the top-most fighter, so took some cannon hits).

In fairness, this was an 'ideal' situation where the fighters went after the Condors and the Corvette had a long turn to get into the fight. But it works equally well when they start facing you, you just need to break off to the left and right of the Corvette so everything isn't bunched in the middle. And if the fighters go after the Foxtrots, that's even better, since you can just gun them down from the side/behind with Condors.

(EDIT: Also, you could use the missiles on the fighers for an even easier time. The reason I don't here is because, with basic weapons, the Condor's guns aren't enough to finish off the Corvette so I need to save the missiles)

Edited June 8, 2014 by kabill

[Kordanor]

I didn't like that the Foxtrot units aren't able to dodge. So I didn't built them at all.

In one of my recorded sessions I actually had a fight against 2 Fighters + Corvette with just 2 Condors. Managed to beat them without taking damage.

[video=youtube;lr7cn4huXAo]

Starts at 4:30

Using Alienium Explosives and Laser Weapons. On Insane difficulty though I am not sure this makes a difference in these fights.

[kabill]

Cool. Didn't occur to me that two Condors would have enough firepower to win by themselves.

(Hmm, aside from Scouts which are a pain to catch, you can actually play the first three months of the game without Foxtrots at all.)

[Kordanor]

Imho the Foxtrots are a bad investment. ^^

Downs:

Costs 100k more than Condor to build.

Takes longer to build than to order Condors and keeps the Workshop occupied

Cannot dodge

Cannot make use of it's range or speed if together with Condors (on the strategic map)

When you build a Foxtrot only group so that you can make use of the range and speed they will always get damaged as they can't dodge.

Only has 300 HP (compared to 200 HP of Condor)

Shouldn't be used against fighters due to slow torpedos

Imho there is just no point in building them. Just wait a little big longer and build Corsairs instead which cost 300k, have 800 HP, can dodge, can turn twice as fast and have the same speed and range as Foxtrots and have guaranteed hits with their guns.

[legit1337]

Imho the Foxtrots are a bad investment. ^^

Downs:

Costs 100k more than Condor to build.

Takes longer to build than to order Condors and keeps the Workshop occupied

Cannot dodge

Cannot make use of it's range or speed if together with Condors (on the strategic map)

When you build a Foxtrot only group so that you can make use of the range and speed they will always get damaged as they can't dodge.

Only has 300 HP (compared to 200 HP of Condor)

Shouldn't be used against fighters due to slow torpedos

Imho there is just no point in building them. Just wait a little big longer and build Corsairs instead which cost 300k, have 800 HP, can dodge, can turn twice as fast and have the same speed and range as Foxtrots and have guaranteed hits with their guns.

You will get raped by corvettes, and scouts will be a bitch to catch. Both of those show up before you can get corsairs.

[kabill]

Not sure I agree: Foxtrots can kill anything other than alien fighter-craft and light scouts without any risk at all. They don't need to dodge, because they out-range anything their fighting. And their speed and range is very useful for downing more UFOs; you only ever need to pair them with Condors when facing escorted UFOs so most of the time they get their full speed and range advantage.

That said, if not building Foxtrots works for you, I can't dispute that. Indeed, I'd never contemplated not building Foxtrots; the fact that you can make that work seems a good things from a game-design perspective, since it means there's not a single approach to playing the air combat game.

EDIT: @Legit - fair point on the Scouts, but the video demonstrates Kordanor demolishing a Corvette *and* two Fighters with two Condors. I'm not sure, them, that Corvettes are a problem for Condors.

[Kordanor]

One thing I forgot to mention is that the science is also a dead end. So you can save some researcher time by skipping Foxtrots.

@Legit: Well you can see in the Video that Corvettes are not a problem at all. With catching scouts you need to be a little lucky so that they turn. But I only missed like 1 or 2 I think (in 3 Months). What you should never do is to tail them.

[legit1337]

One thing I forgot to mention is that the science is also a dead end. So you can save some researcher time by skipping Foxtrots.

@Legit: Well you can see in the Video that Corvettes are not a problem at all. With catching scouts you need to be a little lucky so that they turn. But I only missed like 1 or 2 I think (in 3 Months). What you should never do is to tail them.

Nice video. If they upped the cooldown on the condor's roll another second this would not be possible. I think that is what should be done.

EDIT: Sorry, wrong video, that was kabills.

Yes, I agree with you, once you get laser alenium weaponry, there is no reason to build foxtrots. But I still do because I sometimes cannot get laser tech before corvettes show up

Edited June 8, 2014 by legit1337

[kabill]

It would affect UFOs as well, though, which would bring us back into the bad old days of Foxtrots being able to kill everything with torpedoes.

[llunak]

With catching scouts you need to be a little lucky so that they turn. But I only missed like 1 or 2 I think (in 3 Months).

You think wrong . I was rather curious about this, so I quickly skimmed a random video

and between 7:10 and 16:50 you down only 1 out of 4 scouts. Two Foxtrots would have easily downed all of them in between their coffee breaks. Well, but if you think it works for you. I myself keep only one Condor at each base to deal with fighters once I have pairs of Foxtrots - I find an interceptor that has trouble intercepting anything to be tad a bit expensive even if it was free.

[Kordanor]

You're right. I missed that "peak" when almost no small scouts fly around and only normal scouts are there (until it's mostly corvettes). One Foxtrot at this time might probably have helped and returned it's costs. Though it would have delayed my research.

[Chris]

Skipping Foxtrots? Perhaps it is viable, but it's risky. Their speed and range are really useful and they scale well into the mid-game too. Still, it's good that different strategies are viable in the game.

[Chris]

Also - that double Condor vs Corvette and escort video is pretty impressive, Kordanor. Didn't realise you could do that!

[Mathalor]

I don't know much about modding, but I think that you can lower the time and money costs for foxtrots and other projects, if you don't feel that they are cost effective, and/or raise their combat stats.