Max_Caine

This is one hell of a necro'd thread, but anyways. The shotgun as it stands: Does as much damage as a machinegun bullet (40pts) Has the highest armour penetration of all ballistic weapons (20pts) Has a higher reaction fire modifer than most other weapons (1.6 modifier) Is cheap to shoot (17 snap, 19 normal) Job done.

I’ve noticed there are quite a few people who are either active serving members of their military, or who have served in some capacity within the armed forces. I’m curious to know how many people there are on this board who have served. By “armed forces”, while I do mean are part of a “conventional” military force, such as army, navy, air force etc. I also include if you did it as national service, or if you train regularly with a state-recognised militia (such as the Territorial Army here in England). You don’t have to say in what capacity you served (certainly if the laws of your country forbid you from doing so!) although it would be nice. Incidentally, I’m a civvie through and through.

I can see how balance would be very difficult to do. I was looking at the formulae Serben presented in his thread leading up to this, and straight off I could think of a way to quite seriously abuse it. spinaljack has the right idea - base it more on player performance than anything else!

Well, let's consider the numbers in the current version of the Alpha. Early-game, Xenonauts with Jackal armour tend to die pretty quickly from plasma weapons - plasma pistols do on average 30 HP per shot, whereas plasma rifles do on average 55 HP. Early-game Xenonauts tend to have an average HP of 59, so they will either be severely or critically injured from 1-2 shots. Things get better when Wolf Armour is researched.. plasma pistols do an average of 10 HP, and plasma rifles 25 HP but at around that point the solider class of alien is introduced, who is packing Heavy Plasma, which kills the average jackal-wearing corporal, and does 60pts to Wolf Armoured troops! Xenonaut injuries will follow peaks and troughs. The player researches a new armour. It works for a few missions. The aliens bring out a new gun. Player researches a new armour. Etc. etc. It would seem that as long as the aliens can keep raising the stakes, the wounds most likely to happen will be either severe or critical, so perhaps any discussion of injuries should focus on the most likely wounds to occur. Would people agree?

Observer, if you check spinaljack's thread on base assaults, the alien base assault isn't ready for testing yet. It's all placeholders and incomplete code.

Ok Popperlicious, how would this system be represented on-screen? Are we talking a graphic similar to the graphic used in XCOM:UD and TFTD? Would an additional wound screen be required?

There isn't a release schedule that's set in stone. It can be a week, it could be two weeks, and sometimes a month has gone past before a new build was released.

You are right, ThoseDeafMutes, I should have said perhaps visible light to X-Ray, as opposed to saying chemical to nuclear-pumped.

For those people interested in the thread Leonatus refers to, the threads' here.

Langy, I suspect that there is an "aimed shot", but as XCOM:EU has a class-based structure, "aimed shot" will probably be SweetAssManoeuver #3 of the Sniper Classes' skillset. That's what happens when instead of giving everyone a standard set of abilities (modified by equipment used), you have a custom set per class.

I'd take that up with Governor Schwartzenigger were I you, Buzzles.

I've noticed on this board that there are quite a number of people who like guns. They respect them, are most likely to have handled some, may have handled many. There's a more than a few forumites with quite an in-depth knowledge of guns, the effects of various calibers and know the ins-and-outs of each "class" of gun. Sadly, in Xenonauts like in most other X-Com-a-likes (with one specific series exception) the humble gun is often discarded as quickly as the research tree will let you! The higher tier weapons do it faster, harder, longer and stronger. Those brave souls who stick to their AKs because they know what holding an AK is like in real life get the shock of what's left of their life when BadAssAlienDude #1 kicks down the door, laughs as a squaddie empties half a mag into it, and turns the squaddies' skin into an attractive pair of custom leather boots. Despite the knowledge that ultimately the bad guys are only going to get beat with spayse layzors, the suggestions still fly in (as they have flown in previously) on how to improve the humble gun. Through attachments. Through ammo types. Through a larger selection of guns. This is because we can empathise with and envisage the ballistic gun far better than we can a laser gun or a plasma caster. Thanks to our good friend physics, the gun has been the best way to conduct warfare for a good long while now. Military applications of the laser are still restricted to the testing ground. or as a support tool only. The particle-beam gun, a weapon that has seen jury service in UFO:Extraterrestrials is still nothing more than an exploratory proposal. How does one engender the same kind of empathy in a weapon that hasn't escaped the test chamber or the television screen? I haven't seen on the forum anyone asking that laser pumps be upgradeable from chemical to X-Ray, or request a plasma toroidal modification to adjust the type of plasma produced. Will lasers and higher tech weapons always be and feel more sterile than the ballistic gun?

Well, looking at that interview, the interviewee says that you might have it all if you're willing to stall for time. It seems the developers believe most people won't. I guess he doesn't know the Power Of The Grind!

You're right raziel... the blaster bomb was the hidden second-play true-form boss. It was quite literally the bomb. Hosi, I found I didn't run out of ammo as all those snakemen and floaters just gave me the ammo out of their guns! Can you believe it?! They were so cool about it. It was like, "yeah, I don't need this, I'm bleeding to death here. You take it, dude."

If lasers were boss, then they were a mid-level boss in comparison to the final-form end-boss that was the Heavy Plasma. Which you could research almost straight away if you played on anything above normal.

Ok, ok, Hicks, as funny as you might find this situation to be, Serben has stuck with a game whose fundamental principles he disagrees with/hates. You gotta respect someone who will stay the course no matter what, so personally, I don't think that lol was in particularly good taste. However, Serben, asking for an auto resolve button because you disagree with the fundamental principles of the ground combat system is unlikely to get you a "yes", regardless of how easy you think it is to implement. Equally, asking for an auto resolve button because the ground combat is "slow" or "boring" will not get you a positive response either. Chris, like me, would be more interested in "why?". To be honest, the game(s) that I can think of that most closely match what you have described are UFO: Aftershock and UFO: Afterlight. And quite possibly more Aftershock than Afterlight, as that has more gun porn. Have you tried either of them? I don't think you'd be disappointed.

Would I be wrong in thinking that the aim of everyone is to be able to implement the tactic of "fix, flank, finish"? And that discussion is more about the journey than the destination?

Serben, I genuinely would like to know what your issues are with ground combat. That is why I have not written a dismissive comment like "duh, it's an alpha", which I could have easily done. When you SHOUTED your request for an auto-resolve button, you describe the issue you have with the game in the vaguest of terms and the most generic of language. That isn't going to get Chris to pay attention. Consider spinaljack. spinaljack articulates his issues with air combat quite specifically - that once a strategy is worked out, it can be done every time. Rince - repeat. Boring. So yes, I do ask questions, to draw out the issues that you have with ground combat. EDIT: And yes, I do mean "something is seriously wrong" with the game. Xenonauts is at the end of the day, all about the ground combat. So if that's not enjoyable and engaging, then something is wrong with it.

Yeah, Chris has stated that humans will never get to "carry over" alien weapons. They get sold at the end of the mission. The intention is for the alien weapon to be (barely) usable if a Xenonaut needs to use it in-mission, but if we want our own plasma guns, we have to design them ourselves. (And we will!)

Something is seriously wrong if you want to skip ground combat. I have a few questions to ask. 1) When you say "takes ages to finish". Could you talk a little more about that, please? What about the ground combat "takes ages" for you? 2) Also "slow"? What is "slow" about the ground combat? You're quite vague about this. If it helps to answer those questions, here are some thoughts: Are you shooting at aliens soon enough for your liking? Are you shooting at enough aliens for your liking? Are you finding you have to hunt for aliens in every nook and cranny? Are there too many downed alien ships?

So, StellarRat, is that what you want? Would you prefer building walls to behave like wood and bullets to pass through them instead of cause damage? If you do, fair enough. How then would you like lasers to treat buildings? If all walls are wood, then lasers and plasma, which work through the transferral of heat should set it on fire, right? That'd be fun. A stray alien shot hitting a building wall, then setting the whole damn place on fire, turning everything into a smoking wreck. Every map. EDIT: Or we can say that bullets pass through walls. Lasers and plasma can't. Or we can up the armour value of walls, so bullets can't hurt them. Sound good?

StellarRat, Youtube has asked the questions you have. Lots of times. Here's some answers. A grenade inside a house....

For your first question I think that's a bug. For the second, you can take damage from smoke. At least, aliens do (they can die from smoke inhilation!). Not seen a Xenonaut take damage, but they do make the "I'm hurt" noise.

If the alien guard gets introduced, possibly you might want to roll out alien grenades as well (for the guard), to discourage lazy thinking and poor squad tactics among players.

You're getting to the very heart of the game with this issue, Oktober, and I think there are more way than one to skin this particular cat. Consider, for example, that in V12 you see a lot more light scouts to start with than you did in 10.2. That means you don't need to rush out with MiGs straight away. F17s will do, which cost less and are more readily available if you loose one. Light scouts have less aliens of a lower quality, which means they are easier on your troops, so you're not spending more moolah on troops to replace the ones you lost last mission. Another example having UFOs in general spawn closer to the starting base to begin with. This means you're not pushed straight away into building another base, which cost lots of moolah, and eats into the budget every month during upkeep. Budget is certainly an important indicator in limiting the headlong rush for a player to "have it all", but I think there are other geoscape factors that should be also considered in this issue you raise. I feel this issue is an interlinked whole and the facet you bring up is affected by other factors which if altered, might balance things in a way that makes you smile.