Air Combat - When running away add a check so the NPC's don't immediately re-engage

[Buzzles]

After making a bit of a mistake on a game last night, I ended up having an escorted Chinook get engaged in combat pretty much right over my base.

Despite managing to utterly destroy a wing of fighters, I was engaged by another wing within a few seconds. This was not a fight I could win with two lightly damaged F17's that had no missiles left, so I chose to disengage.

This is where a massively frustrating problem began in the shape of the game flipping back to the Geoscape once the F17's exited the map, only to be immediately be returned to the aircombat for a second round.

Retreat again -> re-engage.

Repeat ad-infinitum.

I feel if the option to retreat from combat is going to be there, there needs to be some check put into the engagement code in order to create a delay between the UFO's re-engaging so that things can happen on the Geoscape. I didn't even have time to order the squadron to retreat, such is the speed in which you're thrown back into aircombat.

This was made doubly annoying by the fact that just before the first engagement I'd ordered a full set of F17's in the air, but due to the way the game functions they were essentially stuck.

Having a small delay introduced (only between UFO's and squadrons that have just engaged each other, if another set come along at the same time, they should be able to engage/be engaged), will actually allow options like scrambling fighter squadrons to be effective but providing there's enough distance from the base to the dropship/retreating squadron, still make them the retreating set a target and a potential loss as they will be re-engaged if you can't come to their aid.

What do you think?

[MrPyro]

I had a similar issue that actually caused me to lose all of my aircraft; I had to disengage due to low fuel, but the UFO re-engaged immediately afterwards, and my planes crashed due to engaging while too low on fuel.

[stx]

I had the same problem on a few combat missions. If the aircrafts are able to retreat from an air combat, then another air combat mission shouldn't be immediately restarted. An endless loop of retreat/reengage starts and does not end. The only way out is losing the aircrafts.

At the moment, the retreat button is quite useless when running away from ufos.

I also think that a time delay before starting a new air-combat is not a good idea.

If I am willing to retreat, then I'm not willing to fight with the same planes the same battle after a time delay.

I think that I would retreat another time, and repeat it until the planes are safely back to base.

[Vivoune]

Yes it happened to me too, several times. Basically the moment your air crafts are airborne and can't beat a faster UFO force then you're sitting ducks. Tbh I don't see why we're allowed to escape in the first place during the dog fight, if I'm slower, there's no possible retreat. That's what these kind of game are about really, you know what will be the consequence of your mistakes long before it happens. It's a pain to watch it happen, but it's just too late.

Now I strongly agree the 'get re-engaged/escape' loop shouldn't be possible cause it's just painful & tedious, either there's no escape from a faster aircraft (like logic would tell us) or keep the same mechanics (more forgiving) but make the UFOs loose interest after a retreat, which doesn't makes much sense. Or maybe something in between? I'm not sure what would be best, but something has to be done about it at some point. ^^

Edited September 23, 2012 by Vivoune

[Thann]

If i remember right, the re-engaging also happens if the UFO is slower than the aircraft. But i have to check that again.

[Gauddlike]

Being unable to escape would be a frustration for most players I reckon.

You at least have a chance to get away even if the enemy is faster.

You may get chased down and have to evade again or hit your afterburners to outrun them for a while but at least you have a chance.

[Vivoune]

And I understand and respect that. But right now the mechanic that supports it is just flawed, or a feature is missing to prevent being re engaged the second after you escaped.

[stx]

Right now an air combat is restarted immediatly after the first one has ended, so there is something flawed in the retreat mechanic. I believe the retreat feature has not been fully implemented....

[Gauddlike]

I was replying to this part of your post.

Tbh I don't see why we're allowed to escape in the first place during the dog fight, if I'm slower, there's no possible retreat. That's what these kind of game are about really, you know what will be the consequence of your mistakes long before it happens. It's a pain to watch it happen, but it's just too late.

Yes the mechanic doesn't work entirely correctly at the moment but the option should be there, which that post appeared to disagree with.

As you say, there needs to be some delaying factor to prevent your craft just running out of fuel or the player getting bored of repeated interception/escape screens.

A check so that the air superiority missions ignore fighters that are heading towards the base possibly?

Although if the enemy don't know where your base is how would that work...

[StellarRat]

One could reasonably suppose that your disengaging aircraft are diving for the deck and evading at treetop level. I guess it's a question of how capable the UFOs are in the atmosphere. It could also be that you can't escape. Maybe there ought to be a random "dice roll" when you disengage that gives you a certain amount to time to extend before the UFO can move to re-engage.

Another thing that maybe could be added is your base firing it's defense missiles if a UFO gets close enough. Your aircraft could draw them into the defense perimeter of your base to try to get them shot down.

Edited September 25, 2012 by StellarRat

[Dowly]

Maybe a small speed boost for the retreating fighter? Say, 50% more speed for 1.5 seconds or something. Just enough so the fighter can extend away. If the UFO is slower than the fighter, then you're all clear but if you're up against a faster one, it'll catch you eventually and you just have to fight it out.

[LesserAngel]

I had a bit of different problem related to this http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/3453-v16-1-Air-Combat-Geoscape-oddity Where the UFO would keep starting combat and then run. So yeah, definitely an issue IMO.

[Zinn]

Yes, there are a few problems with this. I've had the problem with multiple UFOs that keep attacking me but also a single fighter attacking three F17s, escaping and then re-engaging on the Geoscape. The only thing I can do is ground my aircraft until there are only a couple of UFOs on my Geoscape, otherwise it's a guaranteed crash.

I'd also like to point out that the biggest problem isn't the crashing but that it's a massive pain in the ass to deal with. Games are supposed to be fun and playing infinite cat-and-mouse as my fighters fly 2 pixels before being engaged again doesn't fall under that category. It's even worse when your fighters are running out of fuel because the infinite fights force you to keep burning more and more extra fuel to get away, since the game treats enemies attacking you as you attacking them. Basically, your planes will face the wrong direction every single time a fight begins, even though you are supposed to be on an escape trajectory. There needs to be some sort of time where you straight up can't be engaged after a fight, otherwise you'll end up being permanently stuck on the Geoscape.

This issue can also be partially fixed by dialling back the amount of UFOs near your base (especially the fast fighters) or by making base expansions less expensive. I think it costs a million or more and takes a couple of in-game weeks to set up a secondary base with 2-3 F17s and a radar, something that just isn't affordable for most players. There's a reason most RTS games (which the Geoscape technically is) keeps the zerging for later missions when you've got a good grasp of the mechanics and know how to set up a functioning economy.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Zinn

[TrashMan]

If i remember right, the re-engaging also happens if the UFO is slower than the aircraft. But i have to check that again.

It does. I checked. With a modded craft that's definately faster than an UFO.