|Regional & Seasonal Weather| & |Terrain Bonuses|

[Xias]

First off I'd like to start this post by saying a lot of my suggestions or request i don't expect to be in the initial launch of this game. These are more of cosmetic features/suggestions that could add more depth to the game in minuet ways.

Also if weather has already been discussed, my apology.

If you ask any soldier anywhere across the world he will tell you that weather and terrain dictate tempo of a battlefield. It dictates on how you can attack the enemy and the movement speed of your troops across the battlefield.

Thus, I believe a regional/seasonal weather system would be fitting for Xenonauts. On the Global map seeing winter snow fade in and out as winter comes and passes would add a cosmetic appeal to the game. On a battle scale snow or rain could hinder troop movement and sand/snow/rain storms could lower visibility.

The global game map is already separated into different regions of the world. Your half way there in my opinion, now all you have to do is add different factors to these regions of the world. Like if its between Month A to month B a sand/snow/rain storm is X likely to happen on this region of the world and Y likely to be represented on a battlefield.

Obviously to represent snow/rain fall in the game would be a little difficult so i propose to just have snow fall on the ground or make the ground a little more reflective if you will to represent rainfall and maybe a 10% loss of visibility and slightly increased Ap to move while outdoors.

I'm assuming one cosmetic issue that would show itself is how do you prevent this effect from taking place indoors and that in my opinion where things will be a little difficult, I don't know how the developers built the game engine and if buildings are represented differently on a map then the under layer of the ground.

On to the next topic

Terrain bonuses, I've seen the cover feature which i think is a great feature that's been added. I was just curious to know if there's going to be an elevation bonus. If a soldier is on the second floor or roof of a building will his visibility or accuracy be improved? Will terrain add any bonuses to the combat? If not i think this would also be another feature that would be nice to add. Again if this topic has already been posted my apologies.

Like i stated before it would be more of a cosmetic addition to the game with slight feature improvements.

Something similar to a NASA weather satellite, if you will [Example]

Seeing weather phenomenal take place on the global map would be interesting as well.

Please post your own thoughts on the topics and if you think they would add to the game play. Primarily the weather, it would be more of a visual representation of time regarding the seasonal effects on the global map.

[Gorlom]

Imo you dont have to prevet rain/snow indoors. Just make the weather effect cover the entire map and have it as a layer infront of the camera rather then affecting individual tiles. The camera isnt inside the building after all so it should still see the rain/snow infront of the indoor area.

It probably shouldnt affect visibility indoors but since everything is destructible (except for UFO hulls) there's a slight complication with excluding areas from the weater effects. (unless its coded in that floor/roof tiles prevet the weather effects for rain and snow or something.

It might be a cool idea but it might get annoying after a while as well. I honestly dont know where I stand on this matter (for the battlescape weather).

I do not think weather effects or seasonal passing on the geoscape would be cool. it would be cluttered and interfere with the gameplay. And quite frankly it sounds nearly impossible to code in after without rebuilding the engine.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Gorlom

[Xias]

I agree that adding it now would be pointless and just cause production to be delayed but the idea in a patch or update or even a second version would be interesting to see.

But, i dont think the geoscape map would be that difficult. It doesn't have to be a dynamic weather system for the world map. It could simply be overlapping the original global image and having it change seasonally/quarterly. Example

It would be more of a cosmetic thing but i think it would show the passing of time a little better, and if weather was incorperated into the battle map it would represent what a person should prepare for. Weather may cause you to change up your tactics, bring different gear.

Thermals would prove much more effective in a battleground with lower visability due to weather then a sunny day in a surburban battlefield. Snow would slow your troops down (lower ap during movement) which might cause you to have your troops pack lighter for the battleground. Imo, it would add a different aspect to the game and bring i guess a tiny since of realism.

I know most people dont want change and just want there good ol' carbon copy of X-Com, but i think the developers of X-com if given the capability would of reached a little further in there dream for the originals. We all love this style of game i just think adding new elements would be interesting.

I do agree and dont beleive having this in the original launch of this game wouldn't make sense, I would prefer the current release date then a delay. But like stated above i think a patch or upgrade with these features would be a great added bonus.

Anyone elses thoughts on the subject?

Edited February 11, 2012 by Xias

[anotherdevil]

interesting ideas, but yeah it might be a bit late, and moght overly complicate ground combat a bit. Also might tax the engine quite a lot...?

[Gorlom]

Xias how many ground combats do you see yourself playing before you get tired of the weather system impeeding your soldiers? If you're going to have it affect your soldiers "with a slice of realism" (lowering visibility or affecting AP costs of different kinds of actions) you're baisicly going to tie one arm behind the back of every soldier. In the long run I think its going to be more annoying/frustrating then the cool idea it first seems to be on paper.

Weather effects if implemented should probably be cosmetical only and not have any impact on the gameplay. It's tempting to say "at least not without the option to turn it off", but it probably shouldn't be included even if you allow for the ability to turn it off.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Gorlom

[Xias]

I don't believe adding the weather system would hinder gameplay if anything it would expand upon it. Not only would your troops actions be affected by weather but also your enemies, some could even thrive in different climates. The environment itself could be affected, fires burning out more quickly in bad weather.

Weather has always been a factor in real life to soldiers, and representing that in a stragety game based around ground movements Imo would fit well. Players are just use to 2 dimensional fighting like PvE or PvP, players aren't use to a PvE vs the environment, I believe this to be the next step in gaming as systems and technology improve, but i feel until they do; a game with xcom style mechanics could pull it off.

On the global scale, different regions could get attacks from different types of aliens during different seasons. For example a reptilian type being wouldn't necssarily attack colder part of the world during winter. I dont know all the alien races but weather effects all life.

Weather could add another dimension to the game, you as the player are put in a General style leadership position to defend the planet. As so, you have to build a base while managing units and resources, and also reverse engineer and produce alien technology.

So, you should be looking at it as so.

Whats the theater of war in which your soldiers will fight to defend of humanity? Whats the environment? Are there civilians? How many? Whats the weather? Whats needed to accomplish the job? Etc.

All im saying is that in any military operation that has ever exsisted in human history, weather has always played a factor, its life. You dont always get clear skies and sometimes it affects your Ops good or bad. Putting the feature in with an option to take it off though Imo would work...some like that extra X-factor in there.

[Gauddlike]

As you say, if it was done well it could add a lot of interest.

However I feel the down sides outweigh the upsides as things stand.

There are a few difficulties off the top of my head that would need to be looked at before it would be more than a wild idea.

I think an effect on your gear would only work if you knew before launching what kind of weather you would encounter when you arrived.

You could say that every mission in a certain area at a certain time of year would have rain etc but months of rainy missions, followed by loads of snowy, then a month of sunny missions, is no better then missing out on weather types altogether.

Having variable weather has its difficulties as well.

It could make it difficult to fly to more than a single mission.

You would need to return to base to re-equip for the new one if the weather had changed.

If you didn't know what kind of mission you were getting into you would either have to carry everything for every weather type or risk losing your squad because you hadn't brought the right gear.

You could be doing ten or fifteen ground missions every wave of enemies, that is a lot of equipment changes to account for the weather.

Yes it may be more realistic but the question needs to be is it more fun?

Tying the ground mission weather to the geoscape would have to be done.

You could have a lovely sunny mission when the geoscape had shown black clouds and rain otherwise for example.

The work involved in making two whole new sets of every tile (to show rainy and snowy for example) would be huge, that would be the main drawback for me.

Without a snowy version of the industrial farmland etc tiles then snow would look out of place.

Basic weather like rain, fog or snow could be done pretty easily I would think if you didn't have to worry about new tile sets.

They would all give different penalties to visual range etc in the same way as night missions and other penalties or bonuses could be tied in as you suggested.

For example extra AP cost for movement in snow.

I am looking at it from a gameplay perspective rather than a real world one here.

I would really prefer to use the ARMA approach to combat myself.

I don't think that would be doable of course

[Xias]

I agree that the world involved would be huge and thats why i had stated that this idea would be more for a patch or a sequel then the current game being developed.

Also i wouldn't cause your gear to be affected by the weather just your soldiers performance. Your soldiers wouldn't need to have variable gear for there not planning to stay there for extended periods of time.

As for the Geoscape map it would be more for cosmetic appeal and for time reference. To give the planet itself more character...after all its what your defending along with the life on it. I'm not saying that the game would be worst without this feature it would just add too it i believe.

Thanks for your opinion i enjoyed reading it. To the question "is it more fun" would vary, some would like the extra dimension and most wouldn't even realize it. They would play regardless...

[Gauddlike]

Thermals would prove much more effective in a battleground with lower visability due to weather then a sunny day in a surburban battlefield. Snow would slow your troops down (lower ap during movement) which might cause you to have your troops pack lighter for the battleground.

That is what I was referring to when I mentioned an effect on your gear.

I was thinking more along the lines of what you would take rather than the actual equipment being affected by weather.

If the weather on the ground didn't tie in with the weather displayed on the geoscape I would find it quite jarring.

That would be an important part of it for me.

The only thing worse than a missing feature is a half done one.

Purely seasonal changes don't need to be represented the same way obviously.

[Sunshard]

*shivers* just got out of a cold spike, and now we're discussing how to add a chilly effect in video games? Gah!

Admittedly, this would be an interesting side-project. As you've mentioned a lot would depend on the engine.

I'm admittedly more interested in the elevation bonus, since putting my snipers on the roof in v8.9 didn't seem to do wonders for their accuracy T_T

[jimbobfury]

I'd hope that elevation would increase sight range rather than accuracy, so if you take the time and effort to get a sniper/spotter up there then he can help coordinate the ground pounders by pointing them in the right direction. In fact, seeing as this is the suggestion thread...how about some sort of spotters kit, which provides a benefit for a sniper if the spotter is nearby? I love the idea of building a dedicated sniping team of a sniper and a spotter, and covering them as they make their way to a tall building to get a good view of the terrain.

[Gauddlike]

If I recall correctly Chris mentioned that an elevated position would affect accuracy.

That was mainly because you're view was not obstructed by as many scenery items.

I thought he mentioned a penalty to cover if you were being shot at from elevation as well but I can't find that post anywhere.

[TheTuninator]

I think a weather system might be interesting, but as you say in the OP, it's not something I would want the devs to implement for the release.

[Patupi]

As to the equipment choice difficulties with weather

Gaudlike

I think an effect on your gear would only work if you knew before launching what kind of weather you would encounter when you arrived.

You could say that every mission in a certain area at a certain time of year would have rain etc but months of rainy missions, followed by loads of snowy, then a month of sunny missions, is no better then missing out on weather types altogether.

One quick fix for determining the weather would be to fix the weather conditions when the mission generates (ie, when the UFO lands or crashes etc) and when the mouse crosses the crashed UFO symbol on the Geoscape a popup shows the weather pattern.

As to if you should have weather features in game... I'm tending to say no. Ages ago when I first played XCom I got annoyed at the differences between sight of aliens vs humans at night and tended to bias my missions to get daylight almost all the time. In that the missions lasted just long enough (usually) so I could adjust when the Skyranger got there that it WOULD be daylight. Weather effects would probably annoy me more... OK, if the aliens had down sides under certain conditions maybe, but I generally prefer a foe to have better AI than to just give him AI Aids to help him on, and this would seem mostly to fall into that category for me.

[Sunshard]

Oh wow, I remember shepherding my Skyranger's in holding patterns till daybreak sometimes.

[Gauddlike]

I am hoping that the enemy fighters are smart enough to home in on a circling Chinook and force you to either leave or land and engage before they arrive.

Ok maybe not if you have already taken out the whole wave.

[MrPyro]

As to the equipment choice difficulties with weather

Gaudlike

One quick fix for determining the weather would be to fix the weather conditions when the mission generates (ie, when the UFO lands or crashes etc) and when the mouse crosses the crashed UFO symbol on the Geoscape a popup shows the weather pattern.

The problem I have with that is that in Xenonauts there has been a deliberate design decision that angles towards not having to mess with equipment at the beginning of every mission (soldiers keeping their equipment between missions etc.) in order to streamline the process. This goes out the window if every mission you have to check weather conditions and then go and re-equip all of your troops every time.

I quite like the way night missions are currently handled where troops are automatically equipped with flares on night missions. I don't think I'd really want an equivalent for weather though; I think while weather would be an interesting factor there are probably things I'd be more interested in that I'd prefer the devs to spend time on.