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Mcrone9287

Help on not going broke(with many other things)

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Hello I have been playing the game on the most recent version and found that after building my third base in the second month by income dropped drastically, due to a combo of:

1:rising costs for said bases and staff(any advice on how to manage this would be helpful)

2: having trouble in taking out UFO's (I saw several posts about air combat but still would like some tips on dealing with the fighters and medium UFO's that appear around month 3, also what is your favorite load out of aircraft per base? I use the condor, condor, foxtrot per base) leading to dropped funding

Because of these reasons my income would drop to around 300 thousand a month making it very difficult to make a 4th base which leads to less air coverage and that means less downed UFO's which means less money, etc.

I have played about 3 games so far all of them end in stagnation in the third month as I lose air superiority(the UFOs come in waves and I cant handle them all due to refueling times and refitting times)

Also where do you place bases to cover the globe the most? currently I place my starter base in north east egypt, following with a immediate 2nd base in Hong-Kong area, then when the 2nd month happens i make a third base in america, at this point i get into a money problem as the costs for crew,planes, and facilities in all bases makes it very expensive(i keep a bunch of meat shields in each base for base assaults).

i usually rush buy more labs and scientists to get faster tech (sadly you cant manufacture laser cannons for money anymore).

I am asking for a criticism of my strategy, and how i can do better in any of these, either in links to other informative posts or helpful posts.

Thank you in advance( and sorry for the long post)

EDIT: Forgot is there anything upgrades for the foxtrot? I did some file diving and found none

Edited by Mcrone9287

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I think the basic rule is that you need to watch your expenses compared to funding and not over-extend. I'm nearing end of December on Veteran, I keep it on about breaking even, and I'm considering 4th base in January (you can try the save in http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/8592-V20-stable-24-12-2013-Ground-Combat-Possible-to-exit-Shrike-through-walls if you want to compare :) ). An important part of me keeping up with it is however doing as many ground missions as possible (for the extra money which actually pays development) and being rather good at taking down many UFOs effectively. And the fact that the AI in the ground combat is currently easy to snipe probably helps too :).

Few things which might help you:

- You don't actually need air dominance or to take down every single UFO. I would say shooting down more than half of them is okay (I get like 3-4 out of 5 I'd say).

- It really helps to be very efficient with aircraft. I always wait for all UFOs in the wave to show up and then prioritize. I always try to first attack UFOs that are close and generally attack when UFOs are headed my way (or guess their path and head them off) rather than chase them, in order to maximize the number of sorties. I have generally 2xCondors and 2xFoxtrots in each base, Condors can easily take out anything light or escorts, pair of Foxtrots can shoot down anything bigger if you keep up with missile technology.

- Do not risk aircraft carelessly. My Condors rarely go in fair 1-on-1 fights, crashed aircraft downtime is so long that it's sometimes better to let the UFO get away. But I've already flown in a pair of Foxtrots against escorted UFOs few times if it was critical (incoming base assault, aerial terror), with sufficient skill they can sometimes even make it back home.

- I use aircraft as the defense against base attacks. It's possible to guess which UFOs might be dangerous, and it's a pretty safe way. I find extra soldiers in secondary bases not be worth the money (and base attacks are dangerous carnages anyway). Although, now that I think of it, I built a pair of missile defenses in each base, but that was probably a silly waste of money.

- If the wave includes UFOs on air superiority missions (3 (heavy)fighters), I always attack those first. 3 Condors or (2 Condors and 1 Foxtrot running around in the air combat as a bait) can deal with them easily if you are skilled enough with air combat.

- Being skilled in air combat helps in general (I've already downed even bigger UFOs by repeated Condor attacks with enough maneuvering). If you want tips, 'Xenonauts declassified' on youtube should find you videos with some tricks.

- I don't rush scientists or engineers, as I can keep up even if they go slowly (fixed AI may change that though).

- I try to avoid getting new things with high upkeep in the last third of a month. When building a new Foxtrot near the end of a month, giving it less engineers to work on it can time it so that it's ready on the 1st day of the new month.

- It's quite normal that you lose some funding in the first 1/2 months.

But I think you don't need to worry too much about doing poorly. If the Geoscape situation is not noticeably easier on Normal difficulty than it is for me on Veteran, then this part probably needs balancing anyway. Heck, if the ground combat AI now gets fixed to actually fight back, Geoscape may need balancing even on Veteran.

Edited by llunak

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Pretty much what llunak says. Few points from myself:

- Go for two condors per base and up to four foxtrots in key locations, if you can afford it.

- Bases in middle east, central america and southern australasia is almost mandatory. Failing to intercept aerial terror site because your foxtrots will have 1s fuel when they get there sucks.

- There are times when you can't do anything against UFO attacks, like saucers spawning in southern Indian ocean and ruining your southern america or southern africa relations. I think it should be fixed. Overall, UFO attacks are too random.

- 30 scientists and 30 engineers is enough for the most part. You may want more engineers when you get Marauder blueprints though.

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yeah, the game currently is a bit too harsh about base positioning. Otherwise your craft won't have enough fuel to fight effectively. I also use Middle East(Crete Island),Central America(Cuba),Indonesia to cover most of the countries. You won't have funding for more then 3 interceptor bases,until you start snowballing with them.

Prioritise explosives research for the missiles upgrades. Alenium,Alien Reactor,Fusion Reactor,i think?

I prefer to use more Foxtrotes then Condors(Corsairs). The only things Condor can kill on his own are light scouts and fighters. So more then one usually a waste. Corsairs can kill heavy fighters and Scouts with Plasma missiles research(Alien Reactor),so a bit better,but by then you will have too much fat targets anyway,so you need minimum 3 Foxtrotes.I keep 4 in middle east(main base,tend to have more spawns).

Foxtrotes can kill escorted targets. Practice avoiding missiles with Foxtrotes by flying under obtuse angles into firing range and using afterburners.After torpedoes are away,and all missiles missed, you use retreat and afterburners again. They will not run away unscathed,but should easily be ready for the next wave. Ofcourse,its better to kill unescorted targets first,do a quick rearm and go for escorted ones.

For the randomness of wave spawn, i suggest doing Save/Load between waves. Sometimes you can get completely screwed and get all UFO's around one base.

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Prioritise explosives research for the missiles upgrades. Alenium,Alien Reactor,Fusion Reactor,i think?

Yup. Alenium from medium scouts, reactor from corvette(or landing ship? Forgot that part...), fusion reactor from carrier. And then singularity from battleship, but I'm not quite there yet so can't say anything about it.

I prefer to use more Foxtrotes then Condors(Corsairs). The only things Condor can kill on his own are light scouts and fighters.

Condors(or corsairs) can easily kill light scout regardless of loadout. They only can kill medium scouts with combination of plasma cannon+alenium missiles or better. It puts them at disadvantage, because single Foxtrot can kill any scout and you can't tell one scout from other in geoscape until you attack it. Also, condors are slow and run out of fuel fast, so keep two of them for escorts/air superiority and nothing more.

How can you kill light scout with foxtrot? Fly straight on the UFO and shoot torpedo right in its face so it could not dodge. If torpedo misses, you will be in position to shoot another torpedo in its flank.

For the randomness of wave spawn, i suggest doing Save/Load between waves. Sometimes you can get completely screwed and get all UFO's around one base.

It surely helps, but is foul play. If you have two condors and four foxtrots in this base, they will clear the skies, eventually. You may break even in terms of relation from this wave, perhaps. Just pray they won't stick something like terror or alien base(Base, large, andron? Boo.) when you don't want it. However, cleaning them helps with local relations a lot.

It is much worse when they all spawn somewhere in greenland or in the middle of the ocean.

Edited by Serker

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It surely helps, but is foul play. If you have two condors and four foxtrots in this base, they will clear the skies, eventually. You may break even in terms of relation from this wave, perhaps. Just pray they won't stick something like terror or alien base(Base, large, andron? Boo.) when you don't want it. However, cleaning them helps with local relations a lot.

It is much worse when they all spawn somewhere in greenland or in the middle of the ocean.

problem is Foxtrotes start getting obsolete once Carriers and Cruisers show up,because they can literally chase them around for hours if you unlucky on UFO's pathing.And that's 2+ of your Foxtrotes out of the action for the whole wave. So if they spawn closer to the radar edge,and don't fly in base direction, you usually still screwed. I really think interceptors need some kind of fuel upgrade research(so they at least have combat fuel intact). Intercepting stuff purely by news flashes can be quite fun on its own.

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cash gets very tight mid game, you build a few suits of wolf armour, have lasers researched. Then heavy fighters appear and cream your f17s if you dont have plasma explosives, so a few corsairs are needed. I'm currently facing cruisers & heavy figheter escorted landing ships with 1 corsair, no laser or plasma weapons and only 5 suits of wolf armour across 2 bases on veteran. For some reason i found it HARDER on normal, just never got many ufos to shoot down and went backwards in a big way. Finances are a HUGE part of the game and rely on you doing well in air combat...

[EDIT]ground combat is important for cash too, but its better to flee/airstrike than lose a soldier in armour or with an energy weapon as the cost of replacement is so high.

Edited by Dead Dread

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It sounds like you're trying to expand too rapidly. Two well positioned bases (Middle East, Cuba) will get you coverage over most of every region except Australia. I like to get my first two bases established with about 2 Condors and 3 Foxes before doing much else. I also always prioritize air combat research over all else, as moving up a step on warhead upgrades is so very powerful.

problem is Foxtrotes start getting obsolete once Carriers and Cruisers show up,because they can literally chase them around for hours if you unlucky on UFO's pathing.And that's 2+ of your Foxtrotes out of the action for the whole wave. So if they spawn closer to the radar edge,and don't fly in base direction, you usually still screwed. I really think interceptors need some kind of fuel upgrade research(so they at least have combat fuel intact). Intercepting stuff purely by news flashes can be quite fun on its own.

Obsolete is an overstatement. I've successfully played through to battleships/interceptors with pretty much pure Foxtrot (and a few Condors) twice now. Here's my current game save: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36440073/Autosave3.sav It's gotten a bit silly in the past month because I have nothing to spend my money on (doing a 1 ground mission per UFO type challenge), so I'm spending it just because.

As for beating Corvettes, two Foxes with alenium torps kill them 100%. Same for Cruisers and plasma warheads. Two Condors with alenium and lasers can actually kill a Corvette as well, it just takes a little maneuvering. I also suggest prioritizing escorted UFOs as they seem most likely to trigger terror missions and such. Additionally, you can send one plane to trigger an air superiority squadron and then ignore it after that since it'll fly around inflicting minimal damage. Condors can also kill a Light Scout or Heavy Fighter 1 on 1 without taking any damage, but it's a bit tricky to do consistently.

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Yeah, I think I've downed my first battleship with Foxtrotes 1,5 months ago. Only now started on my first Marauder. So they are manageable. But gods, the geoscape is exactly where i want traectory projections on my interceptors,instead of it being useless in air combat.And also automatic pause when any UFO pops back up on the radars. Anyway, i see i just screwed up research order on aircraft,should be much less annoying next time.

As for beating Corvettes, two Foxes with alenium torps kill them 100%. Same for Cruisers and plasma warheads.

and still the same for fusion warheads and Carriers/Strike Cruisers :)

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I find it a bit amusing that if our planet was facing an outside invasion from another race something like money and military resources would be a problem for the forces defending the planet... but then you have to have game play.

I've gone and edited the startgame config file to give me 10 billion dollars and still had a blast playing the game.

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I find it a bit amusing that if our planet was facing an outside invasion from another race something like money and military resources would be a problem for the forces defending the planet... but then you have to have game play.

I've gone and edited the startgame config file to give me 10 billion dollars and still had a blast playing the game.

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I am at February and i find condors OP. So far i always just read about people saying how shit it is, but in fact they only become obselete when escorted battleships arrive. If you upgrade your missiles to alenium ones 2 Condors can take down a lander with no hp loss.Yes you heard me right.But i find it hard to not lose money with my campaigns. I have 2 bases operational and one building (just now )and i already started my work on the first marauder. I have 1 foxtrots but i find it obselete if it comes to fighting.After it launched the torpedos its no use. I see that most players dont use the evasive rolls. That is what makes them sooo good even in the late-mid game. But you should get corsairs fast. And replace your foxes with them. Cause in close range they own EVERY UFO.Also if u suck with condors do auto resolve.The computer is a better pilot than you and it can bring out the condors full potential. So my tactic is to have a bunch of cheap condors snowballing ufos and having 30 scientist to get em upgrades. Later on i dont bother with foxes i go right for marauder and corsairs. Also i always lose money but if I finally lose indochina and australia i can focus on smaller are snowballing. U dont need that much money if u cinstantly airstrike /assault larger UFOs.I hope i helped. MAY THE CONDORS POTENTIAL BE WITH YOU.

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You must be playing at normal at most. Regardless of combat abilities, Condors are too slow with too short range to catch later UFOs. On lower difficulties they might be able to barely scrape by since your planes get a range and speed bonus there, but they're still not gonna be good.

If you upgrade your missiles to alenium ones 2 Condors can take down a lander with no hp loss.

2 Foxtrots can take down anything except battleships as long as you keep your explosives research up to date, and they outrange the UFOs so they can launch safely and then withdraw.

1 Foxtrot alone isn't very effective, they should work in pairs (except against regular scouts, 1 Foxtrot can deal with that just fine, and later in the game it doesn't even need to fire both missiles, 1 is enough).

But you should get corsairs fast. And replace your foxes with them.

That's terrible advice. Corsairs are good, but they have a completely different purpose than Foxtrots - Foxtrots excel against larger UFOs that can't dodge, while the Corsairs handle the alien fighters. They're supposed to work together, but there are way more Foxtrot targets than Corsair targets. 1 Corsair per base is plenty.

Also i always lose money

This proves that your strategy is terrible.

It's pretty much unavoidable to loose money the first month, and second month might be the same, but from that point on your funding should be going up every month.

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Have fun catching Cruisers and Carriers with Condors... it might be viable on lower difficulty, but their speed and range is way too weak for reliable intercepts on veteran/insane.

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Condors might be cheap to buy, but it's the maintenance costs that kill you. They cost just as much to maintain as better aircraft. You really don't need or want many. As others have said, Foxtrots do almost everything they Condors can do, better. The only advantage Condors have is against Fighters, Heavy Fighters, and Interceptors... and hopefully you have Corsairs to replace your Condors well before then.

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