Soldier Rank 7: Commodore or Commandant?

[Strykr]

I think the ranks the way they are now are perfect, except for one observation: the Commander rank is used twice.

This is the rank progression:

1) Private

2) Corporal

3) Sergeant

4) Lieutenant

5) Captain

6) Major

7) Commander

8) Colonel

9) Commander (player)

I propose to the game designers that rank 7 confuses the narrative of the game, and should be changed slightly, but I am torn between whether I prefer Commodore or Commandant as an appropriate replacement. Both carry the same contextual (and importantly, alliterative) feel of "Commander" at rank 7 as a high-but-not-supreme rank.

I believe based on previous comments Chris has made about rank design that this suggestion is the only one the game designers may consider.

So which do you prefer as a soldier rank...Commandant or Commodore?

Edited August 11, 2013 by Strykr

[EchoFourDelta]

No, because Commodore is someone who commands a massive naval detachment; commandant is used similarly, and is most commonly used in Western nations to denote someone in command of some equally massive establishment, and in the USMC - and those patterned off of it - an entire branch of a military. A Commandant or "Commodore" would be telling everyone else what to do; that's who the player would be. That said, the ones we have in-game at the moment mostly follow in a logical progression; vastly compressed, but still logical. Hell, the most logical thing to do would be to get rid of "Commander" and just stick "Cadet" or something at the front, thereby avoiding the truly massive rank designations you suggested and getting rid of the Commander dilemma at the same time. So you get

1) Cadet/Trainee/Something or other

2) Private

3) Corporal

4) Sergeant

5) Lieutenant

6) Captain

7) Major

8) Colonel

9) Commander (player)

Keeps the "normal" projection of the compressed rank structure we see and gets rid of the double-Commander problem. That said, since we can change it to something more logical on our own inside of about 60 seconds...

Edited August 12, 2013 by EchoFourDelta

[GizmoGomez]

No, because Commodore is someone who commands a massive naval detachment; commandant is used similarly, and is most commonly used in Western nations to denote someone in command of some equally massive establishment, and in the USMC - and those patterned off of it - an entire branch of a military. A Commandant or "Commodore" would be telling everyone else what to do; that's who the player would be. That said, the ones we have in-game at the moment mostly follow in a logical progression; vastly compressed, but still logical. Hell, the most logical thing to do would be to get rid of "Commander" and just stick "Cadet" or something at the front, thereby avoiding the truly massive rank designations you suggested and getting rid of the Commander dilemma at the same time. So you get

1) Cadet/Trainee/Something or other

2) Private

3) Corporal

4) Sergeant

5) Lieutenant

6) Captain

7) Major

8) Colonel

9) Commander (player)

Keeps the "normal" projection of the compressed rank structure we see and gets rid of the double-Commander problem. That said, since we can change it to something more logical on our own inside of about 60 seconds...

Seconded, if we can't actually have logical ranks.

[Betuor]

I'm perfectly ok with how it is because I don't believe that you aren't in the same rank list as the soldiers. You're the commander, but you're the leader of the organization, not the ground forces (not boots on the ground wise anyways) kindof like how the president of the U.S.A. is commander-in-chief of the military but he's not part of the military, if that makes sense.

[Strykr]

According to their Wikipedia pages, Commandant in the French army and air force is equivalent to NATO rank code OF-3, which is equivalent to the rank of Major in most of the American and British militaries. I will concede Commodore is a notably higher rank (OF-7) than even Colonel in most militaries (OF-5), which perhaps detracts from its broader appeal.

However, the idea that we can't consider naval ranks is nonsensical, considering the Commander rank is generally only used in naval or air force militaries.

Betuor, your Commander-in-Chief analogy is false because Commander-in-Chief is simply not the same title as Commander, despite the CIC being the head of the military. In the example I have described, the same literal title is used for two different levels of the command hierarchy. If rank 9 were actually "Supreme Commander" or "Commander-in-Chief" or anything similar, your analogy would be more appropriate.

I can see how Commodore instead of rank 7 Commander might weaken the logical progression of ranks, but I really don't see how you could make the same argument about Commandant, a rank in the French militaries approximately equivalent to a Major in US and British militaries. They are not anywhere close to the same thing. And I'd really rather not add any more low-end ranks.

[EchoFourDelta]

> rather not add any more low-end ranks.

This is the only thing there's *not* enough of.

[thothkins]

Although I hear what you're saying about the point of the thread, I'd still have voted for a "Neither" option with Captain (or at a stretch Major) being the highest available rank.

If I had to choose I'd have stuck with Commander. However, I'll just change them myself if the vanilla game doesn't.

[StellarRat]

The Commander rank should be left alone. The head of a large organization even if military in nature is usually a high ranking civilian of some kind (Director, Secretary, Chief, Chairman, etc...) So, the player should probably have a non-military designation removing the need for Commander at the top. Remember the head of the Xenonauts deals with lots of civilians, governments, intelligence organizations, scientists, enigneers, etc..

[GizmoGomez]

I disagree about the player not being referred to as Commander, if that's what you're suggesting. I'd rather the player character "be" a veteran Xenonaut, who worked their way up in the organization.

[Strykr]

The Commander rank should be left alone. The head of a large organization even if military in nature is usually a high ranking civilian of some kind (Director, Secretary, Chief, Chairman, etc...) So, the player should probably have a non-military designation removing the need for Commander at the top. Remember the head of the Xenonauts deals with lots of civilians, governments, intelligence organizations, scientists, enigneers, etc..

The player rank of Commander should definitely not be removed, nor is that the suggestion I'm making. The player rank of Commander is a major component of the atmosphere of the entire game.

To be clear, I am NOT suggesting removing or replacing the Commander rank entirely, only the duplicate soldier rank of Commander that is below the rank of the player.

[EchoFourDelta]

Exactly. Sticking Rookie/Whatever in down at the bottom gives you room to get rid of commander rank for soldiers and simultaneously gives you more of the lower ranks, a callback to the original X-COM game, and allows you to shuffle the naval rank out of there and keep the rest of them with their intended ground forces flavor.

[GizmoGomez]

My thought is that newly hired soldiers should be "Rookies" or "Recruits" (though I like rookie better), and it should be incredibly easy, like, after a only single mission consistently, to rank up from rank 1, rookie, to rank 2, private. This way, once they have proven themselves with combat experience, they get a "proper" rank and get to join the ranks.

[Ishantil]

Reallistically, almost all of these "rookies" are pulled from special forces from around the world.

"Before you were special. But this is the Xenonaughts. Unlike any other combat unit you've ever been in. Our enemies are tougher, scarier, and want to kill you more than anything. Welcome aboard."

I would do this:

1) Private (basically rookie, or recruit, but this is their rank)

2) Squaddie (X-COM style!), or Private 1st Class

3) Corporal

4) Sergeant

5) Lieutenant

6) Captain

7) Major

8) Colonel

9) Commander (player)

[EchoFourDelta]

I imagined that whether or not real ranks get used, that it operates similarly to how the SAS does things following Selection; you go back to essentially being a Private.

[StellarRat]

The player rank of Commander should definitely not be removed, nor is that the suggestion I'm making. The player rank of Commander is a major component of the atmosphere of the entire game.

To be clear, I am NOT suggesting removing or replacing the Commander rank entirely, only the duplicate soldier rank of Commander that is below the rank of the player.

I think you've mis-interpeted what I wrote. What I'm saying is that the TOP guy WOULD NOT be a COMMANDER he would be a Chairman or Secretary, etc...so there would be no confusion at all because there would be no duplicate ranks.

[Ishantil]

The "commander" is prosecuting a war, why not go with General?

[StellarRat]

The "commander" is prosecuting a war, why not go with General?

Could be that too. In the old UFO series the head of Shado was Commander Straker, but he had two levels of authority above him, including a General some type of Committee above that.

[thothkins]

but he had two levels of authority above him, including a General some type of Committee above that.

President Fencesitter: Well, yes, I agree with Commander StellarRat's assessment that the aliens could be bad, and have nothing but the worst for us in mind.

But I also agree with General Fluster that we should sit on our hands and do nothing and hope for the best. While obviously looking completely in control and increasing our defence budget on flawed, pointless equipment.

General Fluster: Hurray! My shares in Tax-Dollar Toilet Armaments have just gone up! Extra Director bonus for me too!

Senator LobbierBait: I think we should wait on the opinion polls.

Commander StellarRat: Well, it's proving difficult to get opinions, as the people being asked are mostly dead or are being abducted, Sir.

President Fencesitter: What are the demographics on the dead? What would they want us to do in a crisis?

Commander StellarRat: >sigh<

[StellarRat]

LOL.

I remember one episode of UFO where Straker was begging for funding to clean up space debris because it was interfering with finding the UFOs. I thought to myself, how prophetic. That show was ahead of it's time a lot of ways.

[thothkins]

not so great on prophecies relating to car doors, mini skirts and misogyny though...

[StellarRat]

not so great on prophecies relating to car doors, mini skirts and misogyny though...

No or smoking. However, you have to admit that the fact they had females in command positions was ahead of it's time. Besides, everyone needs a little Lt. Ellis or Col. Lake from time to time....

[thothkins]

It was good that you embraced equality through UFO having female commanders as the norm...for about a whole sentence there.

[StellarRat]

It was good that you embraced equality through UFO having female commanders as the norm...for about a whole sentence there.

I see nothing wrong with beautiful female commanders. I have two now as a matter of fact.

[thothkins]

and how many dashing, handsome male ones do you have?

[StellarRat]

Actually, I'm the only male in a department of 15 ... My girlfriend is threatening to have me tested for estrogen absorption.