Weapon Request

[HTH82]

a logical expansion to fighting aliens with stun grenades and stuff would be to use a tool to improve chances.

How about this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M79_grenade_launcher

in Xenonauts we´re talking about a military unit fighting some real nasty enemies - using grenade launchers shouldnt be that off, should it?

one could use standart explosives, smoke grenades, stun grenades and more.

however - i accept that there are some difficultys involved with programming a grenade launcher since it wouldnt be using a normal shot trajectory but a ballistic arc which would need to be calculated through a lot of things - to stop in the midst of the arc if an obstacle, a ceiling for example, gets hit.

I´m no programmer myself (what language are you using by the way? ) but i think it should be workable. all the parts - like the throwing arc - are there in other parts of the game. one would think that these parts can be copied, slightly adapted and misappropiated for this purpose.

[thothkins]

There are some thoughts being discussed on this very thing on this thread.

[Ishantil]

I'll put you down for another M-79 vote.

[HTH82]

oh sorry - browsing through dozens of forum entrys is not my forte - didnt realize that there was.

[EchoFourDelta]

Why wouldn't they just use 203s.

[Ishantil]

Mainly because there's no way to add a "grenade mode" for a weapon into the game right now. But adding a "mini rocket launcher" would be feasible.

[EchoFourDelta]

Something a little more developed and practical for force multiplication might make more sense. The Hawk Industries MM-1 comes to mind (given the period, of course).

Edited August 6, 2013 by EchoFourDelta

[Ishantil]

I was thinking the M32 (Milkor MGL), but it didn't come out until 1983.

I kinda wish we had M72 LAWs for use against Androns. I want to burn a smoking hole through those guys.

[EchoFourDelta]

Eh, that's what the B-300's for.

[Ishantil]

M72s are light enough that everyone could easily carry one (which is basically what they did, in case of tank, extend tube).

The B-300 is basically the rocket launcher we have now.

[EchoFourDelta]

...

"The B-300 is basically the rocket launcher we have now."

It's exactly the one we have now. That's why I said it.

You're also operating under the apparently "mistaken" pretense that the Xenonauts would actually do something logical.

This, on a slightly different note, is what I was talking about gameplay and plausibility. It perhaps might have been a good idea to look at what small-unit, light infantry forces carry in order to execute sufficient force multiplication, so that we'd have elements like that that players could see, and then work out how to make it work in-game, and balance from there. It's rather jarring to look at this group that's purported to be a bunch of elite-ass troops, but they haven't figured out the benefit of carrying grenade launchers, individual anti-armor, more than a magazine or two, or even do something as basic as wear something that might keep them from being spotted immediately in any environment ever. Camouflage isn't exactly a cutting-edge development. What we're told they are in the story and what they are in-game are worlds apart. The need for gameplay and story segregation is obvious, for most sorts of fiction, but here it's incredibly jarring in the most basic and obvious of ways, with details and concepts that should be there simply absent.

Edited August 6, 2013 by EchoFourDelta

[Ishantil]

I apologize, I thought you were implying that the B-300 is what we should use instead of an M-79 (or M32, or whatever).

To your last paragraph, I agree entirely. I would love for there to be a series of mods that would increase the realism on the part of the troops, and perhaps enhance the lethality of the opposition to compensate.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I really like where this game is going, and I see a lot of really awesome potential for modding it.

[EchoFourDelta]

*brofist* There's no trouble.

The "pretense" statement was more in jest than anything. I don't use smileys, a little one with its tongue sticking out would have probably helped there. But yeah, It always get me that questions like the ones being posed regarding some degree of verisimilitude are usually shouted down with "BUT WHAT ABOUT BALANCE" when the question comes up. What can be even more striking than some difficulties in balance in a work of fiction like the one we're being presented with is the overt display within the context of the story as to how a co-op of what is supposed to be the movers and shakers of the world's militaries acting without the slightest degree of common sense. The model we're presented with in Xenonauts (and the original X-COM) isn't a force of sharp, elite personnel that are underfunded and fighting against all odds. It's a depiction of a force that's almost *trying* to lose.

A good rule of thumb that I've usually found beneficial when looking at fiction, particularly that revolving around military sci-fi themes, is this:

"Is the average civilian smarter than our protagonists."

If the answer to this is yes... Yes, the average civilian would know better than to do this. Yes, the average civilian would know we should probably wear camouflage. Yes, the average civilian would know that we'd probably better have something we could take out armor with. Yes, the average civilian would know better than to think that SEALs and GRU carry more into intense urban conflicts and boarding actions than a spare magazine and hand grenade.

If you're answering yes to all these questions as you look at the fiction you're putting together, you're stacking up an absolute mountain of "shit we could do better if we really thought about how we're presenting this."

[Ishantil]

Q: "Why don't I have a LAW rocket?"

A: "Well...the funding to save the entire world doesn't cover camo pants or LAW rockets."

That's part of the problem that I have with this kind of game. Because of the attention to balance is often used as an argument (or even excuse) not to do something. "that would ruin the balance" While I acknowledge that balance is both important and tricky to do, I don't agree that it should be used as a bludgeon.

Nevertheless, there is only so much coding hours to go around. I'm perfectly content to wait or even participate in a mod that adds these things to the game.

Oh, and *brofist*

Edited August 6, 2013 by Ishantil

[thothkins]

"Well...the funding to save the entire world doesn't cover camo pants or LAW rockets."

There was a pants budget, but it all went on equipping the Strike Witches

[Ishantil]

No no, that was the pantsu budget! There's plenty of pantsu for all!

[thothkins]

ah, I think there may have been a problem. You know Bert the Quartermaster? Well, you know how the Korean war left him with only one good eye and ear? He thought that pantsu was Pants4U and went and got us all ill-fitting trousers from there. Don't worry. 1930s fashions are sure come back some day, right?

[Ishantil]

Oh dear.

[thothkins]

here's your choice Ishantil.

[StellarRat]

As long as my supply of Spanx wear is not affected...my troops want a more shapely figure...

[thothkins]

well, I wouldn't say "not affected"

[TrashMan]

Use it as a weapon, that if equipped, gives granades longer range or something.