Ways to address the soldier skill gap

[Wintermist]

Or we could have a danger rating on missions and keep getting easy missions later in the campaign as well. We could have a research that enables coordination with local forces which enables us to either direct local forces to the easy missions, or send in our rookies (or whoever we want). If the local forces handles it we simply don't get anything from it, but it could fail too which could have a negative rating.

Like this, so if you don't actually have any rookies to send on them easy missions, you can let the local forces deal with it.

[StellarRat]

Well, that's the thing. Training is being taken out of the game. Chris, and I agree, doesn't think it adds much. All the basic training did was advance one rank, and that happens after one or two, maybe three missions anyway.

I never bothered with training. Besides, other than a few lessons on alien anatomy and tactics, how much could you really improve an already elite soldier with just training? Only combat experience against the enemy is going to teach him/her more. It might also ruin him/her mentally too, but we don't need to worry about that in this game.

[Grazgul]

I never bothered with training. Besides, other than a few lessons on alien anatomy and tactics, how much could you really improve an already elite soldier with just training? Only combat experience against the enemy is going to teach him/her more. It might also ruin him/her mentally too, but we don't need to worry about that in this game.

I'm going to disagree with this post, apart from the mental scarring

Training is incredibly beneficial, what makes training better is as the game progress' you would presumably become more familiar with the enemy's tactics and you'd learn more about the limitations of their weaponry. This would lead to massive increases in troops survivability and effectiveness in combating the aliens.

I didn't mind the training option.

The simplest way would be for training to simply become more effective as the game goes on.

Instead of 1 level, near the end of the game it would be 3-4. I also don't think that you should be able to replace your elite soldiers easily, but a rookie towards the later months is extremely weak and I wouldn't mind seeing your base soldier slowly become stronger to compensate.

[StellarRat]

Training is incredibly beneficial, what makes training better is as the game progress' you would presumably become more familiar with the enemy's tactics and you'd learn more about the limitations of their weaponry. This would lead to massive increases in troops survivability and effectiveness in combating the aliens.

Sure, but why is dedicated training function necessary? We have to assume they're not just drinking and chasing women/men when they're not in combat. That pretty much means they are training constantly. I wouldn't mind your gradual increase in some stats just from being hired by XCom, but it would have to stop at some level, 58 - 59?

[Crowst]

Humans need constant exercise to prevent muscle atrophy. There's no reason to believe that X-Com agents aren't already training during down time. In fact, it would make sense that they come to X-Com in near peak physical condition since most are special forces of one kind or another. Additionally, an X-Com operative would have a lot of other duties to attend to such as studying intelligence data, weapons training, mission briefings, etc. They would probably only be able to train enough to retain their strength not necessarily increase it. Certainly it would make sense to have diminishing returns on strength training pretty quickly.

[Waladil]

If they're joining the Xenonauts in "near peak physical condition," then please explain how an elite soldier can run two and a half times as fast as a rookie while carrying twice as much gear. That sort of insane difference in skill levels tells me that they are NOT joining in "near peak," they are joining in average condition. Okay, I get accuracy, bravery, and reflexes showing dramatic gains between a soldier who is special forces but inexperienced with aliens versus a Xenonaut elite. But strength, TUs (speed), and resiliency? Those are basic physical characteristics, and wouldn't really be improved by combat experience.

I feel like we should adopt the following style guide when discussing skill levels:

<50: Sub-par

50-60: Average

60-70: Adept

70-80: Expert

80-90: Elite

90-100: Peak

100+: Superhuman

So "expert" soldiers joining in "peak" condition would have stats from 70-100, not 50-60. The argument that the Xenonauts are getting the best in the world simply does not hold up under the basic fact that in the course of a single month a Xenonaut can get dramatic improvements in such basic traits.

Unless you want to make the argument that Xenonauts regularly undergo physical training that would be considered inhumane in any other situation, like taking steroids that they know will have horrible side effects in a few years. I guess it would be worth it, to have a better chance at fighting the aliens here and now. It WOULD also explain why all the Xenonauts look so glum, if they know that their lives are likely to be short and painful... assuming we win.

[StellarRat]

Um...its a game? Yeah you right of course from IRL perspective. But most like the RP angle.

[xcorps]

I never bothered with training. Besides, other than a few lessons on alien anatomy and tactics, how much could you really improve an already elite soldier with just training? Only combat experience against the enemy is going to teach him/her more. It might also ruin him/her mentally too, but we don't need to worry about that in this game.

Elite troops constantly train. That's part of what makes them elite. Seals for instance after BUDS and SQT deploy into a training/deployment cycle that is roughly 6 months of training and 6 months of active deployment. An entire training and deployment cycle with qualification training is about 18-24 months.

As regular infantry in the Marines, we would do "maintenance" training when not part of a deployment cycle. For a 6 month deployment we would begin training 9-12 months prior to deployment, with the intensity of training ramping up as we approached qualification dates. I deployed 2 times for 6 months each (1 year) and spent 18 months (1.5 years) in training for those deployments.

That's over half my enlistment, and doesn't include things like jungle warfare trainining, combined arms training, arctic training, land warfare exercises, and the myriad other small unit training and individual skill training that was a constant. Having a day or two in garrison with nothing to do but Physical Training and classes/weapon maintenance was rare unless it was scheduled for higher command inspections.

The operational intensity of a unit such as Xenonauts would require a day or two of down time after a mission for debrief and equipment maintenance, then back to the shooting range, CQB rooms, classroom training, physical training, with maybe 1 day out of 2 weeks for "downtime". Assuming that you don't have an assload of casualties, of course.

Theoretically there would be minimum 2-3 training squads for every deployment squad in a rotating schedule (for each base). 1 squad would be the newest recruits adjusting to Xenonaut operations with a high emphasis on classroom and physical training, the next would be units that have undergone indoctrination and would empasize personal skills and unit tactics while studying mission debriefs to the last minutia, and the third would be a squad that had alien combat experiance. The deployment squad would be in a standby mode, maintaining equipment and practicing unit and individual skills with a lower intensity on class/physical training.

The first wave of Xenonauts would have been the best of the elite units from around the world. As the Xenonauts gained credibility and the world leaders recognized the need to fund and support Xenonauts, the non-xeno troops in various countries would begin stepping up training cycles for special forces and other elite units. They would have arrived at the first base at a minimum of a company strength unit, already educated and indoctrinated. The veteran Xeno troops would be assigned as small unit leaders and the training cycle would begin. There would be no wash outs because the troops arriving at the Xeno facilities have already passed the most difficult initiations. The only losses would be in combat or training injuries. Recruitment to non Xeno elite forces would be stepped up, even if some standards had to be lowered. Training cycles of elite units would begin to lengthen, and non elite troops would have their operational tempo increased to cover the gap created by special forces not being as readily available. There would be a very large pool (thousands) of elite level troops ready to deploy to the Xeno bases.

As least that's what would happen logically.

[GizmoGomez]

Honestly, I still think that having smaller craft show up throughout the game is the easiest way to deal with the training rookies problem.

Since some players don't want to have to go back and deal with smaller craft mid-late-game, as they're too easy and/or boring or whatever, someone suggested the ability to send local forces to deal with crash sites. Adding this would be somewhat complicated, I'd think.

What would be much simpler is destroying the Light Scout (or whatever UFO it is) in the air outright, instead of letting it crash.

This idea uses the auto resolve mechanic that the developers are working on for v19.

I'm posting it as it's own thread in the Suggestions forum, I'll update this post with a link once it's up.

EDIT:

Here it is, enjoy!

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/5473-Air-Combat-Auto-Resolve-Add-an-Aggressive-Attack-option

Edited June 5, 2013 by GizmoGomez

[StellarRat]

Elite troops constantly train. That's part of what makes them elite. Seals for instance after BUDS and SQT deploy into a training/deployment cycle that is roughly 6 months of training and 6 months of active deployment. An entire training and deployment cycle with qualification training is about 18-24 months...

I knew that. What I meant was I didn't see how "special" training was going to make them better than the elite troops they already were. I figured during their non-combat time they were training anyway, so a special training function in the game seemed redundant to me. Sorry about the confusion.

[cybrbeast]

ELITE SOLDIER RECRUITMENT INCENTIVES

If the player does well enough for a region block, or wins a Terror Mission, then that nation might donate a relativity good solider to the Xenonauts. This soldier would not be a high ranked and tired unit but would still be a useful addition and add another incentive to help a nation block aside from funding and hoping they won't mousy up with the Aliens.

I love this idea and would like to expand on it. I think it would really add to the game if some missions could give you an extra reward instead of only getting alien equipment. The rewards you could get in the new X-COM were one of the few nice features of the game IMO.

Doing really well for a country and gaining a good soldier is good. It would also be fun if you could get a soldier if you execute a military base mission with minimal NPC casualties.

I could also imagine getting some extra cash from a city if you defend it well in a terror mission.

Intercepting an alien abduction mission could give you a free scientist who also works for free. It would make some logical sense for UFOs to try and abduct special people like smart scientists.

A free engineer might be gained from having a good score in an industrial zone.