Base Simplification Ideas

[GizmoGomez]

Alright, valid points. So, just make it so that it takes a few days to convert the previous facility to the new one, with no loss of functionality in between? Or should the benefit of upgrading the facility carry the risk of being caught off guard without the facility working properly?

[Queamin]

Alright, valid points. So, just make it so that it takes a few days to convert the previous facility to the new one, with no loss of functionality in between? Or should the benefit of upgrading the facility carry the risk of being caught off guard without the facility working properly?

I like this as there is risk upgrading.

[Gauddlike]

You don't have to upgrade.

If you don't want to run the risk of being defenceless just build a new set of defences then remove the old ones, or even keep them until you need the space for something else.

If you want a quicker and cheaper alternative then upgrade your current ones and hope you don't need to use them while they are offline.

Same goes for labs and medical bays.

[thothkins]

I see retail outlets close for refurbishment. But I'm sure if they had a equivalently sized big empty space next door that they happen to own yet are strangely not using, they would possibly just get the work done there and continue to make money as they were.

Then move over to the new one, with a perfectly viable (if mothballed) older versi0on of the store if needed. They may even want to use both of them to maximise their profits.

[Revoke]

But why?

Micromanaging is good!

Instead of making game more simple we should add functionality - just like you did with Air Combat Chris !

1. Depending on how you want to resize various buildings (see below) bases could be 6x6 or 7x7.

I would personally keep them 7x7.

Or maybe a whole different approach?

If you pay initial $$$ for founding a base let's have it just like in Apocalypse, where you get bigger base with more cash.

2. and 3.

Barracks (1 tile building) seems like a good idea, but then I would keep Living Quarters (2 tiles) just for scientists / engineers. That way non-fighting staff will be separated from soldiers and you still have to care for their living conditions.

4. I think scientists / engineers should have daily wages. That would end this "can't pay maintenance" bug.

And seriously it would allow more streamlined wages politic - if I hired them on 30th I will pay just for 1 workday, just like in real life.

About not filling living space - I disagree. It would make the game too simple.

5. Good idea!

Maybe to balance things every radar need to be powered? That would introduce new base building - powerplant.

6. I agree - 2 vehicles per garage.

7. Very good idea.

2 starting hunters seems like too many.

This!!

The game is great as it is and is the game i have been after since the original. With more depth and freedom in gameplay options, dare i say it, it could even surpass the original, certainly the firaxis remake ( which even though i enjoyed the first play through went a linear routewith the 1 liners).

Over the years there have been some decent interpretations and similar gameplay types which if looked at closely could expand on this title. The After***** games were good in there own way which went in depth with unit skill training/weapon upgrades and attachments including a decently designed real time combat system. The Jagged alliance games focus more on combat using prone with a huge arsenal of equipment including vehicles.

It must be frustrating making decisions as a developer though as to your final release, especially with the thought in mind that, lets face it no matter how good it is, when mod enabled for the community people will always find ways of improving/expanding what you create.

With that in mind its also a good thing, many older games still survive and make a profit to this day due to very good mods.

My misty eyed vision though hopeful is, years down the line we have amazing mods which could, when put together, expand the game with realistic and logical content like the air combat which is in(good job btw it couldnt be done in a strategy game any better). Id like to see anything that just adds to more ways of playing giving choice...would need larger maps for vehicles/tank/jeep/APC weapon enhancements/AI multiple armours with different uses.

Regardless of most ofthe current market i still firmly believe the future of gaming is in the good design of sandbox worlds and AI. I would and im sure many others too, rather be let loose in an environment of pure freedom with enough content that can be played multiple ways, than a long corridor with a door at the end when once entered is left and never returned to.

Its a dream i know, but had to share.

[local]

I really like the OP ideas.

Games like this based on xcom have improved things either in the one-main-base plus minor bases or one base only plus facilities way (or standard xcom way), which definitely is simpler to manage, the other way people had been experimenting with in modding xcom 1 was to reduce available tiles to even as low as 4x4. I don't really like managing money especially in terms of trying to predict what monthly income will be. Instead I like knowing what resources I have (non-monetary) and having limits as to what I can focus on in a particular base. I don't know if the following way is more fun but it's similar, in UFO afterlight there was only a main base but there were facilities you could build and try to protect either with automated drone, defense emplacements or soldiers. Apocalypse used buildings with premade non-square layouts (much more often than square IIRC), so there was good variety between each base. I think future games like this could benefit from those ideas compared to standard xcom. I prefer afterlight's way at the moment but maybe some blend between apoc and afterlight would be fun too. Because if a single outside facility is lost, it's easier to know what you've lost and how to replace it or deal with that. With multiple large micromanged bases, for me losing bases can become non-fun to deal with. Maybe also bases could somehow be only partially raided/damaged in certain areas, though that seems to lean in the micromanagement area. I realize that micromanagement is subjective in some sense and that some players like more. I like firaxis xcom's abstracting of money value (soldiers costing "$"10, etc), because doing quick arithmetic on a few bucks is just more comfortable to do than semi-realistic amounts.

Other thoughts..If going the more semi-standard xcom 1/2/3 base way - which is more flexible in a simulation sense - I don't know, maybe you could be allowed to choose the area size of the base, with some kind of penalty other than cost, maybe that larger bases would be easier to detect and/or destroy, or you could only have a limited amount of total area across all bases, used however you want. Or, a total max area across all bases, but only the main base would be able to build certain things, or it would have definite bonuses to certain project/building/research effectiveness. Maybe a downside of having a very large main base could be something like, if the base is ever detected, the aliens would be very likely to discover the location of other bases by trying to steal computer data while they raid, or later with some kind of external weapons launched from attacking UFOs.

Edit : Oh, something else kind of related. I really liked how afterlight made all personnel important. Fewer to manage - a good idea and in the spirit of customizing characters, and also you had to choose between which to use for science or other skills instead of all combat, in the case that a character had both abilities , it could be a tough choice and that was fun. It could be a risk but a worthwhile one to use a scientist who had good combat ability on a combat mission, but if he died, you'd lose your research effectiveness unless someone else came along. The rookie-mill of original xcom games is something I wouldn't miss at all, because afterlight let us know that people are the most valuable "resource" in a more emphasized way. Apoc had limited number of hires per pseudo month, skills for each person.. I think those are very important ideas to keep for the geoscape portion of the whole genre.

Edited July 20, 2013 by local

[Markon]

I think I am resurrecting an old thread here, but just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Please don't oversimplify scientists and engineers!!! It's not complicated, it's not that time consuming, and early game I often find myself debating if I want to squeeze in a few more scientists, or save the funds to build more armor, etc, etc. heck, mid game, I find myself debating a few more scientists at an expansion base, or funds for laser weapons, advanced ships, etc, etc (or more engineers to build those advanced ships faster). These are interesting, meaningful choices in my book. Elimination them would definitely make me less likely to recommended this game to my friends.

[StK]

I think I am resurrecting an old thread here, but just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Please don't oversimplify scientists and engineers!!! It's not complicated, it's not that time consuming, and early game I often find myself debating if I want to squeeze in a few more scientists, or save the funds to build more armor, etc, etc. heck, mid game, I find myself debating a few more scientists at an expansion base, or funds for laser weapons, advanced ships, etc, etc (or more engineers to build those advanced ships faster). These are interesting, meaningful choices in my book. Elimination them would definitely make me less likely to recommended this game to my friends.

+1.

[Chris]

You are resurrecting an old thread. All the base simplification that is going to be done (the radar range changes) has already been done and there will be no further changes to the existing systems, except for balance changes where necessary. So you can sleep easy!

[WildLynx]

I heard someone talking about "Base Simplification Ideas" ... Wild Lynx pulls out a gun ...

Base must be complex multi-layered structure, with power generation, security buffers with upgradeable automated gun turrets, etc.

Some rooms can be built only on surface, some are best hidden underground. Corridor and elevator system must allow smooth base operation without compromising it's defensibility... Damageable Power cables... Armories... Secure rooms for non-military personnel to lock themselves in at the times of danger... Large launch pad for Avenger craft at the surface layer...

Wild Lynx brandishes his Laser Pistol: Who started those talks about "Simplification" ?