Roof rules

[Skitso]

Having higher ground is one of the most basic advantages one can have in combat. As far as I know, it's not simulated in this game at all.

As you can see in the (amazing) image below, the unit on the roof has 50% cover just by being higher, while at the same time having a 100% vision to the unit on the ground level.

Being higher up should also reduce the amount of cover smaller props like rocks and fences provide on lower levels.

[Chris]

Shooting from a higher level already reduces the cover offered by cover on the lower floor. I believe it's reduced by 20% for each height level.

Unfortunately the LOS-based cover you're talking about isn't possible in our game, because it's not a game where we map shot accuracy based on the size of 3d models - we use an abstracted tile-based system where objects and actors use a % stopping chance for any projectile passing through their tile, even if you can only see / shoot part of that tile.

We briefly experimented with a system like is used in Phoenix Point which would allow the behaviour you're after, but ultimately we didn't think it was a great match for a tactical game because hit chances vary wildly with even small changes in unit position (which causes various negative effects for the player).

[Skitso]

3 hours ago, Chris said:

Shooting from a higher level already reduces the cover offered by cover on the lower floor. I believe it's reduced by 20% for each height level.

Unfortunately the LOS-based cover you're talking about isn't possible in our game, because it's not a game where we map shot accuracy based on the size of 3d models - we use an abstracted tile-based system where objects and actors use a % stopping chance for any projectile passing through their tile, even if you can only see / shoot part of that tile.

We briefly experimented with a system like is used in Phoenix Point which would allow the behaviour you're after, but ultimately we didn't think it was a great match for a tactical game because hit chances vary wildly with even small changes in unit position (which causes various negative effects for the player).

Fair enough, but could you consider some simple approximation to give higher ground units some cover? Like flat 10% cover per floor difference?

[Chris]

6 minutes ago, Skitso said:

Fair enough, but could you consider some simple approximation to give higher ground units some cover? Like flat 10% cover per floor difference?

As in a 10% per height level penalty to hit chance when shooting upward at units on higher levels?

[Skitso]

1 minute ago, Chris said:

As in a 10% per height level penalty to hit chance when shooting upward at units on higher levels?

Yes. Or some other value you see fitting.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skitso

[Chris]

Yeah. I don't actually think it's very realistic, because shooting up / down at people mostly makes the intervening objects more or less of a problem rather making the actual target easier or harder to hit - but ultimately you're not the only person who thinks the game doesn't model height levels in the shooting calculation, so the current system probably isn't the best choice.

[Skitso]

4 hours ago, Chris said:

Yeah. I don't actually think it's very realistic, because shooting up / down at people mostly makes the intervening objects more or less of a problem rather making the actual target easier or harder to hit

Yeah, my thinking (and what I tried to draw in that image) was that the edge of the roof is the "intervening object" you mention. Anyways, hope you find a way to make higher ground units be a bit more safe than they are now.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skitso

[gG-Unknown]

1 hour ago, Skitso said:

Yeah, my thinking (and what I tried to draw in that image) was that the edge of the roof is the "intervening object" you mention. Anyways, hope you find a way to make higher ground units be a bit more safe than they are now.

Thanks Criss to enlighten us internal game mechanic.

What about : person on the roof is considered having low cover  (same as low box or similar items) against oponent on any lower level ? (opponent would have a chance to hit corner of the building-wall with all destruction consequences)

Edited November 1, 2023 by gG-Unknown

[Skitso]

23 hours ago, Chris said:

Yeah. I don't actually think it's very realistic, because shooting up / down at people mostly makes the intervening objects more or less of a problem rather making the actual target easier or harder to hit - but ultimately you're not the only person who thinks the game doesn't model height levels in the shooting calculation, so the current system probably isn't the best choice.

Gave this some more thought... An easy solution would be to give all roof edge tiles a cover value.

On 11/1/2023 at 8:45 AM, Chris said:

Shooting from a higher level already reduces the cover offered by cover on the lower floor. I believe it's reduced by 20% for each height level.

Also, does this work both ways? Does shooting from a lower level increase cover on the higher floor?