My suggestions from early access [gun sounds, prone mechanic]

[DailyFrankPeter]

- Can you add prone mechanic?
So that there is another tool for avoiding getting hit & improve your own accuracy at a cost of not having LOS over low cover.
And generally so that it feels more like you're commanding a squad of pros. Would that break anything? (It worked for X-Com Apocalypse.)

- Is it feasible to improve gun sounds, or just make them more punchy? 
Currently they're about as loud as footstep sounds, also... somehow not rich enough given what one can record these days. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by DailyFrankPeter

[Skitso]

43 minutes ago, DailyFrankPeter said:

- Can you add prone mechanic?
So that there is another tool for avoiding getting hit & improve your own accuracy at a cost of not having LOS over low cover.
And generally so that it feels more like you're commanding a squad of pros. Would that break anything? (It worked for X-Com Apocalypse.)

- Is it feasible to improve gun sounds, or just make them more punchy? 
Currently they're about as loud as footstep sounds, also... somehow not rich enough given what one can record these days. 

It would certainly break the pacing as it would further encourage even slower, more careful and reaction fire dependant game style. In xcom styled games, players troops are mostly expendable cannon fodder, so why bother?

Regarding sound design, I completely agree. It kinda sucks currently.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Skitso

[Raffik]

38 minutes ago, DailyFrankPeter said:

- Can you add prone mechanic?
So that there is another tool for avoiding getting hit & improve your own accuracy at a cost of not having LOS over low cover.
And generally so that it feels more like you're commanding a squad of pros. Would that break anything? (It worked for X-Com Apocalypse.)

- Is it feasible to improve gun sounds, or just make them more punchy? 
Currently they're about as loud as footstep sounds, also... somehow not rich enough given what one can record these days. 

I believe the prone position would be really nice, as not all people prefer the cannon fodder approach.  For the gun sounds, the ones currntly in the game are okay-ish, however a richier sound for (not only) accelerated weapons would be nice

[Skitso]

32 minutes ago, Raffik said:

...not all people prefer the cannon fodder approach.

Hmm, yeah... but wouldn't it make more sense for those people to play Jagged Alliance or similar tactical games instead, where the point is to try to preserve your units? That kind of slow and methodical gameplay is not what xcom styled games (including Xenonauts) are about. 

It's generally a bad idea to add all possible game mechanics people enjoy in a single game just because. X2 doesn't have prone for a reason, same with corner peaking. On the other hand Xenonauts have some mechanics other ganes don't have.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Skitso

[DailyFrankPeter]

There are plenty reasons not to lie prone - i.e. extra TUs used, mission timer, cover getting in your way, enemies converging on you... The key point being you would have a choice of your own pacing. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by DailyFrankPeter

[DailyFrankPeter]

3 hours ago, Skitso said:

In xcom styled games, players troops are mostly expendable cannon fodder, so why bother?

This is what they've been reduced to over the years... but not sure Julian Gollop strived to create a cannon-fodder-type game

Edited September 9, 2023 by DailyFrankPeter

[DailyFrankPeter]

3 hours ago, Skitso said:

wouldn't it make more sense for those people to play Jagged Alliance

Thank you. I will go check that out.

Edited September 9, 2023 by DailyFrankPeter

[Raffik]

5 hours ago, Skitso said:

Hmm, yeah... but wouldn't it make more sense for those people to play Jagged Alliance or similar tactical games instead, where the point is to try to preserve your units? That kind of slow and methodical gameplay is not what xcom styled games (including Xenonauts) are about. 

agree, if there would be a game like JA including alien invasion. I believe its a question of individual playstyle, as some people would always try to preserve the soldiers or like to play very tactically, wouldn't they 

 

5 hours ago, Skitso said:

It's generally a bad idea to add all possible game mechanics people enjoy in a single game just because. X2 doesn't have prone for a reason, same with corner peaking.

true of course, but laying prone would be logical (and would inevitably bring some disadvantages too) and would add little more reality into the tactical combat imo.

5 hours ago, Skitso said:

On the other hand Xenonauts have some mechanics other ganes don't have.

absolutely agree.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Raffik

[Komandos]

On 9/9/2023 at 5:38 PM, Raffik said:

I believe its a question of individual playstyle, as some people would always try to preserve the soldiers or like to play very tactically, wouldn't they 

Players are trying to save not so much soldiers as to preserve the experience accumulated by soldiers. In the game "Xenonauts 2" soldiers have an infinite resource, and therefore it makes no sense to take care of saving this resource. The experience of soldiers is a scarce resource. 

Total: first of all, players strive to keep experienced soldiers.

 

As for the "lying position": this is a logical improvement of the X-COM series, which was implemented in the third part of the original series. X-COM 3 Apocalypsys 

[Alienkiller]

The Question is good DailyFrankPeter. You have in the Game the Standing and Kneeing-Mechanic, which don´t make an difference yet. The Accuracy don´t change.

The first thing is, that the Accuracy have to change with Kneeing first and much more with the Prone-Mechanic. That you don´t get hit so good from enemy Fire is with the Kneeing integrated already. The Prone Mechanic would give a lot more Safety, esp. against the predominant Alien Shooting-Weapons and other special predominant Specials some of the Alien-Races have.

The Sounds are not so easy to make better. But the Devs take our Suggestion in that serious and try their best to make them better.

 

That with the Prone-Mechanic-Question bring us to an other big Point, some People won´t understand:

What´s wrong to get Specialists from an Secret Organisation, to keep them alive as well as best trained. They are Special-Forces and no Standard-Soldiers, which can get burned like in WW 1 and 2 and similar Wars. We don´t play Hearts of Iron 4 where you can and have to do that.

Like several times said, it´s an Earth-Defense-Game against an predominant Alien-Invasion (like old X-Com-Series, new XCOM-Series, UFO-ET-Series, old UFO-After-Series, in an other Form Terra Invicta & Phoenix Point). You play an Secret Organisation with limited Ressources, which alone have to save Earth and fight other Organisations too (come in with X-COM 3: Apocalypse the first time).

The logical improvement which come from the X-COM-Series is no lying Position. That´s an big Gameplay-Improvement, otherwise such Gerne were already Death or an 08/15-Scrap. If People don´t like it, they are wrong in that Gerne.

So I agree with Raffiks-Statement and DailyFrankPeters Question for the experianced Specialists to hold them alive to 1.000.000.000.000+ %.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Alienkiller

[Komandos]

On 9/15/2023 at 3:30 PM, Alienkiller said:

So I agree with Raffiks-Statement and DailyFrankPeters Question for the experianced Specialists to hold them alive to 1.000.000.000.000+ %.

The more advanced (developed) technologies xenonauts will have, the less experience (level of personal development) will be required from soldiers to achieve victory in battle. 

One day, the player will reach such a level of technology proficiency that the personal experience of soldiers will no longer play a decisive role.

 

[Komandos]

On 9/15/2023 at 3:30 PM, Alienkiller said:

What´s wrong to get Specialists from an Secret Organisation, to keep them alive as well as best trained. They are Special-Forces and no Standard-Soldiers, which can get burned like in WW 1 and 2 and similar Wars. We don´t play Hearts of Iron 4 where you can and have to do that.

No matter what good specialists (soldiers) the player would hire, the player will always have soldiers with experience only for 1-2 battles (or no experience at all) and soldiers with experience for 10-20 battles. And the player will risk less experienced soldiers.

 

On 9/15/2023 at 3:30 PM, Alienkiller said:

They are Special-Forces and no Standard-Soldiers, which can get burned like in WW 1 and 2 and similar Wars. We don´t play Hearts of Iron 4 where you can and have to do that.

The war for survival without death is like a detective film without a crime.